Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

[TMS]

In the Bible the word "dispensation" never refers to a period of time. Invariably its meaning is "a stewardship," "the act of dispensing," "an administration." Read the four New Testament texts in which the word "dispensation" is found: 1 Corinthians 9:17; Ephesians 1:10; 3:2; and Colossians 1:25. Weymouth's translation of 1 Corinthians 9:17 reads: "A stewardship has nevertheless been entrusted to me."

 

[TMS]

God's dealings with man have been ever the same. Faithful Abel and Enoch, Abraham and Moses, were all "saved by grace." Their lives were marked by obedience to God's commandments. By "faith," they obeyed, and today God's remnant church is a church which keeps the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes it prefigured Christ and helped them undersatand the plan of salvation to come.
But it never justified them.
They had faith in a future messiah and we have faith in the messiah that has come.
We have the witness of Jesus Himself, they had the promises and the shadow (sanctuary services) of the plan to come.

Ps 31 says nothing about the blood of animals covering their sins..
By faith in the coming Christ their sins were covered.

Only the robe of Christs righteousness can truly cover our sins.

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Their faith was indeed that Christ's perfect life would provide their righteousness, but also that His blood would be shed for the remission of their sins. Both are necessary.
It was through faith that this was believed. Salvation has always been by grace through faith.
Since Jesus had yet to come, His blood could not as yet be appropriated to OT believers. Thus, their sins could not be done away with, only covered until Christ was actually crucified.

 

[glf]

Didn't say take away. I said covered. See Psalm 32:1.
The whole sacrificial system prefigured Christ. It was done in anticipation of His death.

True that! Heb 10: 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of things...

 

[glf]

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Their faith was indeed that Christ's perfect life would provide their righteousness, but also that His blood would be shed for the remission of their sins. Both are necessary.
It was through faith that this was believed. Salvation has always been by grace through faith.
Since Jesus had yet to come, His blood could not as yet be appropriated to OT believers. Thus, their sins could not be done away with, only covered until Christ was actually crucified.

I don't think that their faith was that specific. They believed that God would one day send the Messiah, born of a virgin, in the city of David to save them in their hour of need as promised by God.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't think that their faith was that specific. They believed that God would one day send the Messiah, born of a virgin, in the city of David to save them in their hour of need as promised by God.

I don't disagree. It's hard to know how much they would have understood at any given time...especially as more revelation was being given over time.
I was primarily trying to show both the necessity of remission of sins as well as imputed righteousness.

 

[glf]

I don't disagree. It's hard to know how much they would have understood at any given time...especially as more revelation was being given over time.
I was primarily trying to show both the necessity of remission of sins as well as imputed righteousness.

God's dealings with man have been ever the same. Faithful Abel and Enoch, Abraham and Moses, were all "saved by grace." Their lives were marked by obedience to God's commandments. By "faith," they obeyed, and today God's remnant church is a church which keeps the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12.

Heb 3 makes this point very clearly, especially towards the end of the chapter.

 

[Grace911]

Gal 5:4 KJV "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Rom 3:19 KJV "Now we know that what things soever the law sayeth, it sayeth unto them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before the Lord."

Jesus railed at the Pharisees and Sadducee as hypocrites. They added and diminished from the law and Jesus said they make the law of God of none effect through tradition.

Galatians and Romans were written by Paul. He is no dummy and He does not teach against the law of God, but the laws that these hypocrites and vipers made up and keep as tradition. You will not find the word tradition in the Old Testament. In fact, the law demands that no additions or taking away be done.

Deu_4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deu_12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Mat_15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mar_7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye

The Greek Word for "tradition" is paradosis.
G3862
π=80 + α=1 + ρ=100 + ά=1 + δ=4 + ο=70 + σ=200 + ι=10 + ς=200 TOTAL=666
paradosis
par-ad’-os-is
From G3860; transmission, that is, (concretely) a precept; specifically the Jewish traditionary law: - ordinance, tradition.

666 is associated with the anti-christ. Constantine outlawed all things "Jewish" in nature. He was antisemitic and anti Judaism. This was the beginning of the Christian church traditions, like Sunday, Christmas and Easter. Constantine had many pagans in his territory and to unite the Christian's and the pagans was to do away with anything Jewish. So since the 320's AD, we have had "traditions" that are not God's commandments. Passover done away with. The other Feasts of the LORD done away with. The 4th commandment to keep the Sabbath, the 7th day, done away with. Most Christian's today will not object to a Sunday law, where everything shuts down, to save the planet from global warming. There would be no global warming if we had just adhered to the global WARNING. See Leviticus 26 starting at verse 14. God is angry and it is time for judgment.

 

[glf]

Hey Grace911...
Numerology is too obscure for me. We only know in part and must discern the truth by reading through a dark glass, as it were. It doesn't seem worth the effort since 666 is also the number of a man too. It does make me think that we're finite beings while the Lord is infinite as he would be 777 by comparison. The amazing count of Greek letters and words in the genealogy of Matt's gospel, did stop me from believing that the KJV was the authorized translation. It seems to me, most of the new testament scripture deals with overcoming sin, encouragement to persevere, and to love one another with the goal of life everlasting.
Sadly, mankind will deserve the judgment of the great tribulation when it begins and then some, as the Lord is longsuffering to usward, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I don't disagree. It's hard to know how much they would have understood at any given time...especially as more revelation was being given over time.
I was primarily trying to show both the necessity of remission of sins as well as imputed righteousness.

Good morning

I think/know they had a pretty good idea because the Psalms of David is clear on how Yeshua will die. Moses taught them etc. They knew who and what the Messiah is going to be. The Jews just missed Him because of their pride.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Hey Grace911...
Numerology is too obscure for me. We only know in part and must discern the truth by reading through a dark glass, as it were. It doesn't seem worth the effort since 666 is also the number of a man too. It does make me think that we're finite beings while the Lord is infinite as he would be 777 by comparison. The amazing count of Greek letters and words in the genealogy of Matt's gospel, did stop me from believing that the KJV was the authorized translation. It seems to me, most of the new testament scripture deals with overcoming sin, encouragement to persevere, and to love one another with the goal of life everlasting.
Sadly, mankind will deserve the judgment of the great tribulation when it begins and then some, as the Lord is longsuffering to usward, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

There is a place for Numerology but I think you have to back to the original language for it to be effective.

 

[Cameron143]

Good morning

I think/know they had a pretty good idea because the Psalms of David is clear on how Yeshua will die. Moses taught them etc. They knew who and what the Messiah is going to be. The Jews just missed Him because of their pride.

Hey and good morning. And I don't disagree that there are plenty of scriptural references concerning Messiah and what was available for them to know but actual understanding didn't seem to be widespread. And even where it was, this was often due to direct revelation and not the result of study. We have the benefit of looking back on events and a completed canon and still lack much in our own understanding. So was it there to see? Yes. Did it still require God to open their understanding? I think so. But it's an excellent point you bring up for consideration.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

According to dispensationalists of all stripes, people's sins in the Old Testament period were dealt with by the Law and by animal sacrifice. There was no grace, just law. Only Jews could be saved

Yeah no, Abraham wasn't a Jew and he was saved. Dispensationalists do not believe that.

 

[Grace911]

Hey Grace911...
Numerology is too obscure for me. We only know in part and must discern the truth by reading through a dark glass, as it were. It doesn't seem worth the effort since 666 is also the number of a man too. It does make me think that we're finite beings while the Lord is infinite as he would be 777 by comparison. The amazing count of Greek letters and words in the genealogy of Matt's gospel, did stop me from believing that the KJV was the authorized translation. It seems to me, most of the new testament scripture deals with overcoming sin, encouragement to persevere, and to love one another with the goal of life everlasting.
Sadly, mankind will deserve the judgment of the great tribulation when it begins and then some, as the Lord is longsuffering to usward, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

Each Hebrew letter and each Greek letter have a number assigned. There is a huge amount of numbers throughout the Bible. Some are hidden from us because of the English language and of course, being fed a lie that "gematria" is numerology., the occult practices. There are many levels of understanding. PaRDeS = 1) Peshat = The surface or literal meaning 2) Remez = The hint or deeper meaning, 3) Drash = The comparative meaning, 4) Sod = The secret or mystery level.

Studying the numeric value of words in the Bible, will show connections that you cannot see without seeing their numeric value.

A few examples: My profile name here is Grace911. The very last verse in the New Testament is Revelation 22:21. When I am looking at number values of any word, I use the KJV. I use e-sword and within e-sword the Hebrew GEM (gematria of Hebrew words). For Greek gematria I use the chart below.
Revelation 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
G5485
χ=600 + ά=1 + ρ=100 + ι= 10 + ς=200 TOTAL 911
charis
khar’-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

Another word you will be familiar with is the very first words of Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning" . Strong's
H7225 = rê’shı̂yth = ראשׁית
Reading from right to left: Resh=200 + Aleph=1 + Shin=300 + Yod=10 + Tau=400 TOTAL 911

On the surface (Peshat) it appears that the Bible begins and ends with 911 (Like bookends).

Why did 9/11/2001 happen? I don't blame everything on Satan, but he is certainly a tool in the LORD/YHWH tool box. (See Isaiah 45:7)

Did you know that Jesus was born on Feast of Trumpets, Hebrew 7th month and day 1? This event occurs in our Julian/Gregorian calendar in September or October. In the year 3 BC, 9/11 fell on Feast of Trumpets, 7th month and 1st day. TorahCalendar 3 BC 7th month Day 1

You say "numerology" is not for you. I totally agree!! Anything that has to do with the occult is to be avoided like the plague. Wisdom to discern the difference is needed. Not all animals are dogs, but all dogs belong to the animal class.

 

[glf]

Hey and good morning. And I don't disagree that there are plenty of scriptural references concerning Messiah and what was available for them to know but actual understanding didn't seem to be widespread. And even where it was, this was often due to direct revelation and not the result of study. We have the benefit of looking back on events and a completed canon and still lack much in our own understanding. So was it there to see? Yes. Did it still require God to open their understanding? I think so. But it's an excellent point you bring up for consideration.

Hey Cameron143...
After Jesus was resurrected; and unbeknown to them, he walked with two of his disciples on the way to Emmaus and asked them what they were talking about and they explained current events to Jesus. Then, in Lu 24: 25-27 KJV "Then he said unto them, O fools and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffer these things, and to enter into his glory. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."
We see here that even those who followed and believed Jesus was the promised Messias, were given instruction by Jesus himself from the OT scriptures regarding the Messias.
they then invited Jesus to stay with them as it was getting late. Their meal was prepared and when the Lord broke bread and gave thanks, their eyes were opened and they recognized Jesus, who then disappeared from their midst. Imagine how their hearts burned as they sat there looking and Jesus' empty chair. How could they not get right up and hurry back to Jerusalem with the news of what had just happened to them. Glory!
We have the completed scriptures; at least thus far, as I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus didn't give us more revelation during the Millenium; we have a huge amount of hindsight, and we have the Holy Spirit: and yet with all that, the beliefs of the faithful are all over the place and often diametrically opposed to one another.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And I don't disagree that there are plenty of scriptural references concerning Messiah and what was available for them to know but actual understanding didn't seem to be widespread.

That may have been true before the coming of John the Baptist, but all of Israel heard from John that (a) there was one coming after him whose shoes he was unworthy to unloose and (b) that Jesus of Nazareth was indeed the Christ and the Lamb of God. We should not forget that thousands of Jews came to Jordan to be baptized by John and all of Judea and more came to him: Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. (Mt 3:5,6)

And even before that the scribes and chief priests knew that the King of the Jews would be born in Bethlehem, and so did Herod after they informed him. But it did not stop there. The shepherds also went about and announced the birth of the Savior who is Christ the Lord. So overall every person in Judea and Galilee had been exposed to the truth about the Messiah either before or after the public ministry of Christ. Then during His public ministry every Jew heard or saw the miracles of Christ and the teachings of Christ. Thousands came to Him several times and at different times during those few years. So in a nutshell there was not a single Jew who should have rejected their true Messiah. Yet that is not what happened.

 

[Cameron143]

That may have been true before the coming of John the Baptist, but all of Israel heard from John that (a) there was one coming after him whose shoes he was unworthy to unloose and (b) that Jesus of Nazareth was indeed the Christ and the Lamb of God. We should not forget that thousands of Jews came to Jordan to be baptized by John and all of Judea and more came to him: Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. (Mt 3:5,6)

And even before that the scribes and chief priests knew that the King of the Jews would be born in Bethlehem, and so did Herod after they informed him. But it did not stop there. The shepherds also went about and announced the birth of the Savior who is Christ the Lord. So overall every person in Judea and Galilee had been exposed to the truth about the Messiah either before or after the public ministry of Christ. Then during His public ministry every Jew heard or saw the miracles of Christ and the teachings of Christ. Thousands came to Him several times and at different times during those few years. So in a nutshell there was not a single Jew who should have rejected their true Messiah. Yet that is not what happened.

Right. All good points. But after His death, only 120 were in the upper room. He showed Himself to less than a thousand people.
Until the Holy Spirit was poured out the day of Pentecost, despite all you have said, understanding of His person and purpose was in relatively short supply.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Until the Holy Spirit was poured out the day of Pentecost, despite all you have said, understanding of His person and purpose was in relatively short supply.

Then what would this understanding be for?:

Luk_24:45 "Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures"

Would not that be OT for Israel, and His Person and Purpose for them?:

As The Body Of Christ, and His Person And Purpose was still a
"Mystery Hidden In God," until Paul, Correct? For us?

 

[Cameron143]

Then what would this understanding be for?:

Luk_24:45 "Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures"

Would not that be OT for Israel, and His Person and Purpose for them?:

As The Body Of Christ, and His Person And Purpose was still a
"Mystery Hidden In God," until Paul, Correct? For us?

What you are suggesting is accurate. I'm merely pointing out that as the Spirit was poured out after Pentecost, the gospel of the kingdom multiplied and understanding and salvation took off in ways not previously experienced.
A look at Jesus ministry over 3 and a half years, despite His glorious entrance into Jerusalem, yielded a relatively small harvest compared to what happened after His resurrection.
The OT contains most of the teaching of the NT. It is simply made more concise in the new covenant. The information concerning Messiah was available. It was just little understood.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Each Hebrew letter and each Greek letter have a number assigned. There is a huge amount of numbers throughout the Bible. Some are hidden from us because of the English language and of course, being fed a lie that "gematria" is numerology., the occult practices. There are many levels of understanding. PaRDeS = 1) Peshat = The surface or literal meaning 2) Remez = The hint or deeper meaning, 3) Drash = The comparative meaning, 4) Sod = The secret or mystery level.

Studying the numeric value of words in the Bible, will show connections that you cannot see without seeing their numeric value.

A few examples: My profile name here is Grace911. The very last verse in the New Testament is Revelation 22:21. When I am looking at number values of any word, I use the KJV. I use e-sword and within e-sword the Hebrew GEM (gematria of Hebrew words). For Greek gematria I use the chart below.
Revelation 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
G5485
χ=600 + ά=1 + ρ=100 + ι= 10 + ς=200 TOTAL 911
charis
khar’-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

Another word you will be familiar with is the very first words of Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning" . Strong's
H7225 = rê’shı̂yth = ראשׁית
Reading from right to left: Resh=200 + Aleph=1 + Shin=300 + Yod=10 + Tau=400 TOTAL 911

On the surface (Peshat) it appears that the Bible begins and ends with 911 (Like bookends).

Why did 9/11/2001 happen? I don't blame everything on Satan, but he is certainly a tool in the LORD/YHWH tool box. (See Isaiah 45:7)

Did you know that Jesus was born on Feast of Trumpets, Hebrew 7th month and day 1? This event occurs in our Julian/Gregorian calendar in September or October. In the year 3 BC, 9/11 fell on Feast of Trumpets, 7th month and 1st day. TorahCalendar 3 BC 7th month Day 1

You say "numerology" is not for you. I totally agree!! Anything that has to do with the occult is to be avoided like the plague. Wisdom to discern the difference is needed. Not all animals are dogs, but all dogs belong to the animal class.

Thank you for sharing.






JPT