Christianity......what I have learned on here.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sep 29, 2019
394
170
43
#1
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,228
113
www.christiancourier.com
#2
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
God knows your heart. He also knows the heart of deceivers.
May these words of wisdom be helpful to you.
  • “Don’t let your lips and your lives preach two different messages.”
  • “Your most powerful testimony is how you treat others after the church service is over.”
  • “What a heartbreak it would be to live an “almost” Christian life, then “almost” get into heaven.” . Dr. Laurence J. Peter
I've read something like three members, perhaps more, state in different threads that they're leaving this place do to the maltreatment they receive from others. I pray they reconsider. One sister/brother , shared the blessing of how they cope. They see it as an opportunity to work with the tools Jesus gives them. I'm paraphrasing their remarks out of respect for their privacy in the event they don't want me to share the particulars here. Even though they published their view in the thread that included their goodbye.

That's a brilliant way to look at what attacks the sheep of Christ. If we can be overcome by darkness when it depresses keys on a keyboard, how will we face it when darkness meets us face to face in the world?

People show us who they are by how they treat us. And we show people who we are in Christ by how we treat them.
It's a simple truth.

God be with you. [hugs you]
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,986
10,466
113
#3
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
I think this is you venting, but your comments warrant an evenhanded response.

1. Agreed.
2. Yes, God loves everyone. There is no such thing as "the wrong God"; only the wrong god. God chose ancient Israel to be HIS people, in order to bring about HIS plan of salvation for everyone. In Christ, there are no favourites.
3. God doesn't "want" us to fear Him; He knows that while we are in our sinful state, His holiness will destroy us. That's why He sent Jesus. Those who reject Jesus are condemned.
4. "Kindness" that is not founded in Jesus Christ is just filthy rags.
5. The good news of the gospel is that God provided the means to avoid paying the just penalty for our own sin.
6. Yup. God is righteous and just.
7. That's hogwash. You do well to avoid people who cause you grief and stress, but differences of viewpoint should be just that.
8. Stubborn resistance to truth is treated firmly. Discussion of differing opinions isn't.
9. I'm glad you understand that, though "faith in Jesus Christ" is a better wording than "correct beliefs".
10. The first sentence is a non sequitur. The second is misleading; Christians bear the message of hope, but are not themselves the hope.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
1,418
113
#4
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
we have a guy here in dibby53 who cant deal with the truth of God's word. ive had enough of you insulting everything christian here with your effeminate style while defending sin and evil(check out god is a moral monster thread). if u wanna know why he cant deal with it, well i know why but i wont put his business out there. i will let people do their own research if they want

so u dont like the bible? thats sad to hear. now why do you still go on christian forums bashing it? give it up. go to some religion where they dont care about truth and embrace sodomy, fornication and every sin under the sun and God is not supposed to judge it He isnt allowed to or He will be called names and He is being mean and judgmental and evil for punishing it.

you are really a perfect picture of a cafeteria religionist in the modern era, i didnt think it was possible to find someone with all the stereotypes in place but here you are.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,667
7,732
113
#5
The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
Why did you omit the most important part? All are condemned therefore all need the Savior, and salvation is for all who will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
283
138
43
#6
First, with all due respect, a lot of your understanding is either incomplete, or incorrect.
Either way...

1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. A. Interpretation reflects what's in one's heart. God intended this cryptography.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution. A Loving anyone other than the true God, is to deny and shun the real God's love, and your whole grounds for existence.
3. God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned. A God gave us life and love, it's evil to not acknowledge that.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't. A. What one believes, is tantamount to what's in their heart. Their actions reflect their beliefs.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned. A Equal opportunity, the condemned trampled under foot the Good News.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. A Reconsider who you love and care about
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them. A. Belief systems define one's humility and devotion
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated. A Since God and love are true, deviation therefore must be misguided and defiant, and thus, worthy of indictment
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. A Correct beliefs imply recognizing what God intended, anything else, by definition, must be regarded as perverse
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them. A. Yes, in principle, ...but a Christian is always a sinner first, or Christ is of no use to him
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,628
113
#7
Why did you omit the most important part? All are condemned therefore all need the Savior, and salvation is for all who will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Because he is unsaved and dont understand spiritual things and rather mocks them and scoffs at a sovereign LORD who runs the world as He pleases.

OH WELL.

Lets hope the Lord saves him too!
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,228
113
www.christiancourier.com
#8
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
You could perhaps remind those you've described, encountered above, of this thread. I don't think it would be against the rules when it is a rule. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/just-a-reminder-to-be-civil.69450/
 
I

IFOLLOWHIM

Guest
#9
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??




This is what we have been shown by some " whatever's you want to call them"!
I however have learned that many here love Him as much as I do!
I have learned I can fellowship in love with people I have never met!
I have learned that all who say they are; arent,even those who quote scripture!
I have learned to really listen and discern what is really being said,bc your true self comes through even in anonymity!
I am blessed to be among those that are truly His children!
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,868
650
113
#10
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
It does not matter all the different beliefs about the Bible concerning if the Bible is true for some people will incorporate a fleshy interpretation to it but that does not make it false how much fighting it produces.

It has nothing to do with a fault with the Bible or God that is people's mistake.

The truth is that the Bible is the most believed book but it is also the most misinterpreted book which many people have a belief not part of the Bible and they drag it in to the Bible and it becomes their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures such as Joseph Smith, Roman Catholic Church-foundation occult, paganism, new age movement-foundation occult, evolution, they are still evolving, the God of forces, power of nature evolutionary process to name a few.

Other religions interpret the Bible according to their religions.

But all the different misinterpretations have nothing to do with anything for it is on people and their mistake.

The Bible says the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other, and the natural man does not understand the things of God, and even some that claim Christ are ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Hypocrisy among those claiming Christ does not void out Christianity, nor does it change it, but Christianity is the same no matter how people act, and Jesus said the hypocrites do not belong to Him.

I do not understand the problem with the world as if they want an excuse to not like Christianity, for common sense would tell you that all the different beliefs of the Bible, and hypocrisy among some claiming Christ does not hold any weight if they look at it reality wise for the book is the same.

An example is the new age movement and their interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people can still evolve, which was not out until the theory of evolution came out, and science confirmed it, which then the occult started interpreting the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior but a good teacher who evolved to be an ascended master and avatar, and do not acknowledge a personal God, but honor the God of forces, the power of nature, the evolutionary process.

But that interpretation of the Bible was not out until evolution came out and got popular not too long ago, but that does not mean anything as far as the Bible is false because of the different beliefs but that some people will misinterpret it according to their flesh.

The reason there are so many different beliefs now is because there is more beliefs now to interpret it that way, and why so much hypocrisy is because people are more selfish, and arrogant, and want their way more than years ago for that is the direction the world is going.

The Bible is the most popular book in history, so many people believe it has truth even if not all of it, so there will be more different beliefs about it than any other book for there are many people that interpret it by a belief not part of the Bible, and the Bible is the most misinterpreted book because of that.

Joseph Smith knew the Bible to be a very important, popular book, but he had a belief not part of the Bible and it became his foundation for interpreting scriptures, along with many other so there is many people claiming Christianity with different beliefs some more serious than others.

I am saying that you cannot say the Bible is false because there are different beliefs about it but people know it is popular so they want to be a part of it but so many have a belief not part of the Bible and they drag it in to the Bible.

It would seem like it would be common sense that a person cannot say the Bible is not true because of the different beliefs for the Bible is not Dr. Seuss Cat in the Hat where people have no problem with accepting it that way.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,664
113
#11
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
Not one word of thankfulness regarding God’s grace in Jesus Christ. Bummer.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
2,530
113
#13
I'll quote one by one of your questions as I reply.
First, I'd like to thank you for asking real and serious questions instead or engaging in endless mean bickering. But no, you went straight bullseye and brought up clearly what bothers you. I hope you will get satisfying answers. As a non denominational, some of the things you listed are a huge reason why I am a non denominational. I personally think this dogmatic Christianity that a lot of people got entrenched into begs for reform. Truthfulness and rigidity are two different things. God is a transcendent absolute being, who cannot be captured by a dogma, even though theologians try hard. Christianity is perceived by many as a SET OF BELIEFS. But Christianity is NOT, and was NEVER meant to be "a set of beliefs". Let's start there. If you look into the Gospels, Christianity was at first known as "The Way", as in, the way of life or spiritual discipline, among the believers. Take this:

Romans 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Luke 1:79 ...to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Acts 18:25
This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. (notice he did not know the "doctrine" and "dogma" completely; but he understood the right way to live and practice spiritual truth, which is the saving thing; he was later taught by Priscilla and Aquilla to know "the way" "more perfectly". But this just perfected his discipline; he was already saved by his relationship with the Divine. The connection with God - Life Himself - is what gives life.)
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
One enters by becoming like Jesus... be like little children... be blameless... "become one like Father and I are one", connection with God who is Life... this is about spiritual condition... not a set of beliefs. When one dies and stands before God, no theological theorizing or ritual can save them, it's all down to their personal standing with God. I don't know why is this even being disputed when it is so self evidently true. Maybe you just feel frustrated by some people. It's about spiritual transformation, spiritual discipline, spiritual living. The Bible is more like a place to start navigating and giving us a piece of history and some useful teaching. But a person can come to God without ever reading the Bible - who told the Native Americans about the Great Spirit? Also, reading the Bible and actually practicing what you've read are two different things. So let's go to your first point.

"1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers."
Again, like I wrote earlier - you can't trap God into a book. He's really giant. And people want different things, and deep inside there are often different things they REALLY want. Some people really just want God to hand them a winning lottery ticket and some easy life. Some people want to be spiritually awake. Some people want to SEEM spiritual to others and be praised. Some people want to lie to themselves. Some people want other people to reassure them and tell them what to do. Some people want to be right. The book is only the starting point... Else you have a puppeteer God...

"2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people."
People assume what these nations were like based on Hollywood big tribal dance scenes with cool feast parties. However, some of the things these unfavored people did might make us understand better why they were unfavored. Per example, they burned their own children alive for ritual sacrifices. They raped people and had various orgies with them on mass scale in their cities. Some were genetic monsters who were chimeras who were offspring of fallen angels, and deliberately mixed themselves with various beasts. On one occasion a certain Midianite group sent prostitutes on mass scale as a warfare tactic to cause Israelites to be infected with plague and die. Atheists, however, get very angry about the remaining chaste Israelites striking back against this group who tried to destroy them and think it isn't right. Hmm! People read with certain lenses, and also do not seem to really think about what they read, while they read. So let's get to the ancient Egypt. Most people never try to imagine themselves as the ancient Egyptian in the time of Moses. Seeing that the Israelites had light when the darkness was over the whole Egypt, and they had clean water, and no plagues at all, and their God does all these miracles while your own priests can just do a few petty tricks, are we really reading this now? Being an Egyptian, doesn't it seem strange? Would you not question your culture and gods just a bit and try to find out about their god and what is it all about and why are these scary things happening? Or would you be prideful and stick to your traditions and simply decide to hate the bloody slave brick makers? I simply don't see a person like you not asking yourself some questions and not investigating to see if this God is the real deal and what's really going on...
If you read the Bible account as a whole, it is clear that God is about spiritually redeeming souls, and this is what mainly concerns Him. He isn't a social justice warrior. We are all spiritual beings whom God wants to connect with. God is also a very complex being, whose words are true on every level. Say, if God says, it's about to rain, it means it's going to rain right now, it's going to rain tomorrow, and it's going to pretty much rain in general, and also forever. Because whatever God says stands forever. Stupid example but try to see what I'm saying. During the Old covenant, Israel represented physically the bloodline of Christ, and the people who are connected with God. If they were not favored, Christ would also not be favored and evil would not be defeated either. If they were not liberated from Egyptian oppression, no one would ever find freedom, either. It would mean that God can't save who choose to trust in Him and want to be free, and God can't be inconsistent, it's not in His nature. Because of this, all these Old Testament stories are really foreshadowing what's going to happen in the New, it's one and the same story all over, just retold many times in history by the Divine Being.

"3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned."
God IS love. So if you don't love, you don't know love, and that's a very miserable state to be in, so yes, it is a state of condemnation. It's being separate from the source of love. You can't love anybody in that state, including yourself. And God is an extremely powerful and incomprehensibly vast being, too. Some awe, and even fear before Him, is a perfectly normal response, just because He's so vast.

"4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't."
This is what some people seem to imply. But they themselves also know that this isn't true, and that if they don't live out the truth, just parroting it saves nobody. This is seriously too clear to even be disputed... It's also made clear in the Bible in too many places. Spiritual life is beyond "beliefs" and "thoughts", some beliefs and thoughts will stem from it though.

"5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned."
I'll leave this one for conclusion. (have to split the post, please bear with me)
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
2,530
113
#14
"6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them."
One does not burn and suffer because they have "a wrong set of beliefs". You burn and suffer if you don't have relationship with God, and you destroy yourself when you don't live in harmony with the laws of the universe that stem from God Himself (the holy being who is life, love, truth and so on). It's totally possible to have some beliefs wrong, yet live a good spiritual life and know God (gasp!). I think most Christians even will agree on this. If someone hasn't heard about Jesus, God judges them simply by where their heart is. This is explicitly in the Bible, too, btw. But if someone knows about Jesus, and goes against what He represents, they seem to have problems. It's kind of hard to hate Jesus and what He stands for, I'd say. People mostly hate religion, anyway, which is men ran. But a lot of people use that as an excuse to run from their own conscience and satisfy their lusts which ultimately don't serve them, while the law written on their hearts is urging them all the time to look for spiritual peace, nudging them to get ok with the source of life and figure it out. It's deep inside all of us. One can accept it, ignore it, deny it... but it's why we're on this forum including yourself.

Another thing, enemies of God do not suffer for eternity, they get destroyed. I will not get into a big debate about it now, but basically the process of destroying whoever goes against the principles of life is eternal. Life cannot uphold them any longer because life is not found in them. The Bible does not say they suffer forever. You have to read very carefully how these things are worded. The Bible says the "smoke of their torment rises" eternally, and also on other places that the enemies of God "vanish like smoke", and not that the same individuals suffer eternally. If they are "utterly destroyed" and "vanish", they cannot also suffer forever. The individuals change, like adding new wood to the fire, and it vanishes like smoke. But God always destroys what's not in accord with Life, and this has been true throughout history. And since God is eternal and always true to Himself this also repeats eternally, and their choice is also eternal. And I will now explain why they have to burn.

Here goes the parable about the tormentors. Jesus tells us the story about the man to whom his master (representing God) forgave his debt and let him go. Then this same man goes and runs into his neighbor who owed him way less, and he starts choking and threatening the poor man, demanding the debt to be paid in full. The master finds out and gets very angry, and he throws the man to tormentors until the last dime is paid. So what did Jesus expect from the man? To treat others with grace that was extended to him, to be like the master. Basically, to expand the Kingdom of God by carrying all that good stuff forward into the world. This man... the person who will burn, is not burning because of wrong beliefs. It is the person who doesn't have Jesus on the inside, doesn't know Life, doesn't walk the Way... but instead blocks grace and life from flowing and being extended to others. The person who is the harbinger of death. The person who sets themselves apart from their neighbor will be condemned to spend eternity in that other-ness being cut off from oneness in Life. And Jesus wanted to cancel everyone's debt. So this person burns up, until evil is recompensed, and then he is no more. People might get upset about it, but God is the carrier of the universal law. Every man's work must be recompensed and judged, "tried by fire of what material it is" (if it's eternity worthy work and stands, or perishable), because "God is the consuming fire". When we exit this world, we either enter into God's glory, or it's discovered that we cannot enter because we are contrary to the laws of Life. This cannot be altered! It's how the universe works. It's why God came down to take the debt upon Himself. He couldn't simply squint at it. If the cosmic balances are not flattened out evenly, God isn't a just God! "Justice and mercy have kissed each other". At the cross. It's that middle narrow way...

Yes, you care for your loved ones. But you know what Jesus said... Everybody does. Even evil people care about their loved ones. Even the most crooked politician loves and cares about his family. Think about it. Is that really love? This is the test. Can we be like Jesus? Can we shower even our enemies with kindness, like God gives sun and rain to everyone impartially? Can we really love and have compassion for everybody? Can we transcend the "otherness", stop seeing our neighbor as someone other from us whom we might or might not wish to extend grace to? Or be one being with God, "like Jesus and the Father are one"? Hear o Israel, God is one. There's no "others". Everyone is loved and one.

"7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated."

Nahhhh. "Not be tolerated" is really misapplied. More like "shall be debated to death". And a lot of it is because people don't see each others' face, so words are said sometimes. What you said about shunning isn't true either. Some people might do stuff like that but in general Christians hang out together with no problems...

"9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags"."
This isn't about beliefs. This is about NON DOING. Because flesh typically doesn't stir up fantastic things, so the Law is about dont's, and we are taught to walk in the Spirit. Flesh does not harbor goodness. Throw some sleep deprivation or hunger upon anyone, and most people quickly become impatient, cranky and even mean. Do they really want to be like that? This is how flesh really is, just step on its toes a tiny bit and it rears its ugly face. It tolerates no delay for satisfaction of desires. The flesh wants it all now. So this "you cannot do good" is about, don't get in the Way of God, let Jesus work through you aka BE the Way. "He must increase, but I must decrease". This is the point of God sending His presence (Holy Spirit to indwell). The works are supposed to stem from faith that God lives in you and effectively transforms you, else what we bring out then is our own flesh-driven efforts, which does not reflect true salvational inner change (which is what we really want to take place) but instead something else. We make place for God. Good is supposed to unfold from the point of our new natures, without self awareness, like a child. If we are moved by self awareness like "Oh I am so holy now I'm going to do this good deed yada yada hey guys? I did this good deed, you know" compare that to the person of childlike nature, who does good naturally without thinking or self analysis, and it quickly becomes kind of distasteful in comparison.
Practicing non doing (resting in God's works) is one of the hardest things to do and requires a lot of faith, and is what brings great things on.

"10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??"
It's how it's supposed to be. But have you not said yourself that many are called but few are chosen, or something to that extent, like most people are doomed?
Back to the point I promised to address later.
"5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned."
I think you're listening to people too much on this, and looking at people, and thinking much out of fear, you need to sit down with the words of Jesus and examine what Jesus said, and REALLY sit with it for yourself. God isn't the vengeful, mean person you now might believe He is. It's self evident that a creator of our vast universe cannot be like that.
Jesus said that it's harder for a rich man to enter Heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle, yet then adds "but with God anything is possible". Truth does not go against truth. God also said He was willing for no one to perish. We are cautioned in the Bible to not pronounce who will be condemned or saved. It's all up to God and His glory. He might somehow save people we absolutely don't expect Him to save. Actually, right now I am lying DEAD under the cross, and He is living. And I'm not complaining at all, I am quite happy about my destruction and my old zombie self smoking. I am counted as dead with Christ, so there's no debt anymore. I was destroyed and saved both at the same time. So some things might seem impossible and contradictory from fleshly perspective, and this is why God's reply to Job's complaint was asking him if he could run universe only for a day. Ultimately God will save the day, even though we don't get exactly how at the moment because it's whooshing over our heads. My advice to you is start getting to know God's person closely by yourself, and stop looking at people, because people cannot save you, and you will only sink into confusion deeper and deeper that way. People are people. I hope you will remember this, and I hope you soon find the answers you're looking for, and get to know peace on your journey. God bless.
 

jacob_g

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
346
159
43
#15
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
I love your post! Especially #5. Jesus did not come into the world to consume it, but to save save it, because the world is already condemned.

So who cares about people who call themselves christians and think they know everything! #9 is brilliant!!! Since your goodness is dirty rags, what have you decided about Jesus? I especially love #10, have you ever met a christian , a "Christian"? I know you know what I mean.... Who cares what people say on here!!!! Ever meant Jesus yourself? Ever read the Bible yourself?

If you do not know Him, Jesus, will you pray with me?

Jesus I want to know You. Please reveal Yourself to me. I am a sinner who is need of a Savior; I have sinned against my creator God. Please forgive me, fill me and let me know You more.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,425
2,596
113
#16
So does this mean you will be leaving soon, armed with your ridiculous agnostic assumptions?
 
Nov 17, 2019
366
201
43
58
New Mexico, USA
#17
Hello, brother. Can we take this one at a time?

1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
Yes, in fact, he wrote 66 of them. There is minor disagreement about certain doctrines. But the doctrine you and I have to absolutely agree on is contained in the first four books of the new testament.

2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
God lets a lot of people live a long time without following him. There are a lot of folks he gives a lot of chances to seek his Son. As far as favoring certain ethnic groups and people, it's true that God chose the Israelites to be a priesthood nation; an example of God's glory to the rest of the world. However, they blew it pretty bad. They were a perfect example for us today as to why we need a Savior!

3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
A good father will discipline his children with a firm, loving hand. All you have to do is go to any big box store where there are children running lose and see that strong father figures are missing from many families. It's also true that if we reject Christ, we reject our Father. He does not condemn us. We condemn ourselves.

4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
Only surrending to Christ Jesus will save you. It is your admission that you cannot ever be righteous on your own. You need to be willing to give up your sin and put on the righteousness of Christ. Read 2 Cor 5:21

5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
For those of us who have heard the Gospel, it is the best news of all! Just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day, we condemn ourselves by not humbling ourselves enough to actually hear the good news. You must die to your own sovereignty before you can accept His free and precious gift; the gift of eternal life with Him.

6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
You may be surprised at who "is" and who "isn't." I assume everyone is, that way I can lovingly ask, "How's your walk with God these days?"

7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
Again, we have to go back to the Gospel: Jesus is fully God/fully man. He died on the cross to pay for our sins so we can enjoy eternity with the Father. He rose on the third day and sits at the right hand of the Father. This is a free gift that we as Christians believe and gratefully accept. This is the truth you and I must agree on. Everything else can be a bit muddy, but never the Gospel. That has to be crystal clear.

8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
The Bible is the Truth. It is the inerrant word of God. It is not a perceived truth. Until you find a way to have faith in what the Bible says, you will have trouble believing Jesus when he said, "I am the truth, the way and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Johns gospel opens up with, "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God." In this opening passage, John is talking about Jesus as being the Word. He was not only God, but an expression of God-- an aptly named title, since a word is a form of expression.

9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
I believe you are referring to Isaiah 64:6 when he stated that "all of our righteous deeds are like filthy rags." And I hate to break it to ya. He's right. Without the righteousness of Christ, God will look at our righteousness with disgust. Why? Because we are born into sin. We wallow in it and are mired in it. All of us have done something bad, at least once or twice in our life. That disqualifies our righteousness. We are sinful creatures. Therefore, by humbling ourselves enough to hate our sin like God does, we turn away from it. We then have the freedom to accept the righteousness of Christ by the prompting of the Holy Spirit. At that moment God sees Christ's righteousness and not ours. We become holy in His eyes. And we didn't even have to try and be good! All we had to do is to bow to the King of Kings and say "Yes, I want to follow you, Jesus. I'm through with my sin. You are my king, and my life is now yours, Hallelujah!"

Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
I think you are buying into the worst misconception about Christian life that has been around since Jesus walked the face of the earth: that by following Christ, life will now be a bed of roses. The Jews were looking for an earthly king who could end Roman oppression. The medieval monarchs were looking for a leg up against their enemies. And today we are looking for a God who will "bless us at every turn," offering us nice cars, big houses and godly children. But as your faith develops, you come to understand, it's not about us. It's about Him. Read the book of Acts and you'll see what I mean. The early Christians were being stoned, burned and tortured because they were following Christ. The important thing to understand is that the apostles who suffered for Christ are getting their reward in heaven as we speak. I sometimes picture getting a little brick of gold in my heavenly vault every time I have to endure a small hardship as a disciple. Yeah, I'm a little greedy. I want bigger bricks of gold, so I welcome my pain, because I know that I can endure all things because He lives inside of me. Praise God!

I wonder brother, would you like to reaffirm your fellowship with your savior with me? I'll say this prayer with you:
"My heavenly Father, I have sinned against you. I turn from that sin and humbly submit my life to you. My desire is to follow Jesus, because He died on the cross for my sins. I thank you for this, and I commit my life to follow Him. I accept your Holy Spirit and open my life to Him now. Please make your Word known to me. I pray you send me those disciples who can help me grow in my faith. In Jesus' precious name we pray. Amen"

Send me a message, dear brother if you prayed with me this prayer. If you already prayed this with someone from your past, that's great. It's good just to reaffirm it from time to time. That's what I did tonight. May God bless you, and please keep in touch.
 

HQ

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2014
196
6
18
#19
1. God writes books. Unfortunately it is not always that clear. Hence, the arguments, even amongst believers.
2. God loves everyone; but if you worship the wrong God he will command your execution and favours certain ethnic groups and people.
3.God wants us to fear him, but love him at the same time. And if we don't love him, we are condemned.
4. The right beliefs and thoughts in our heads are more important than being kind; beliefs will save you, kindness won't.
5. The "Good news" of the gospel is not that good. Since most are condemned.
6. Everyone I love and care for who has the wrong beliefs and has died is going to burn and suffer for eternity. God will helpfully wipe my memory of them.
7. If anyone has a different major opinion within Christianity it is perfectly acceptable to shun them.
8. Deviation from what is perceived to be the "truth" will not be tolerated.
9. No one can do anything good, or be good before God without the correct beliefs. Since people are basically depraved, sinful and anything they do is "dirty rags".
10. Since Christians are saved, have the holy spirit and are God's beloved children and now have the source of all goodness and love within them, then they are living the most beautiful, loving and blessed lives that can be imagined. They are a real beacon of goodness in the world in a way that non-believers are not........or are they??
You're making me laugh! I can't imagine someone like yourself spending so much time on a Christian forum berating and demeaning a God that you purport not to believe in. It's both pathetic and pathological really. Perhaps you need to spend more time in your garden, just you and your thoughts. The fact of the matter is you're here on this forum because you're looking for something that you don't currently have. You want answers but you don't know where to get them. But instead of just asking questions, you carry on like an impetuous child and lash out at the people who could answer your questions. You're a real class act pal.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
4,004
113
#20
What other religions have you researched and how do you think they differ based on the thread you have started?