Church planting?

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,177
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#21
@ResidentAlien do you have nightmares of Churches in your sleep? Sounds like this is a deep problem for you.
‘Did something happen to you in a Church?
I get it. When I was a kid I was bitten by a dog so I’ve never liked dogs.
Sounds like you're afraid and unwilling to give up the status quo. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”—Revelation 21:8
 

ChristianTonyB

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2022
1,133
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Tin Can Bay
#22
What are you saying then, that everyone else in the New Testament and afterward, who went about sowing seeds, is mistaken?

"Therefore those who were scattered went everywhere preaching the word."—Acts 8:4
No. I'm just saying the directive was given to the 11. That doesn't mean that others can't preach the word. The elders and deacons did, besides what other apostles, prophets, evangelists, and other church members have done. But the directive wasn't actually given to every Christian to go out and preach the word.

Most of the instruction in the New Testament is about how we Christians' natures need to be changed from an Adamic one, into a Christ-like one. The fruit of the Spirit details what a Christ-like nature is. A good church group will be concentrating on its members developing that nature, for the Lord's sake mostly, and also for themselves. It is by that Christ-like nature that we may draw people to enquire of us of what our faith is about, and what we are hoping for. People around me know that I am a Christian, so I concentrate on developing chaste behaviour so that I don't bring dishonour to the Lord's name.

It's hard ground here in Oz, but the Lord may send a ripping plow through it one day, and people may then be drawn to ask me about my faith. In the meantime, at the first reasonable opportunity I tell people that I agree or disagree with something based on what I believe God has said. That may have not an impact on them initially, but the Lord may bring what was said to the minds of the hearer in the future, when they are at a better place to take it in and understand.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,177
1,159
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#24
No. I'm just saying the directive was given to the 11. That doesn't mean that others can't preach the word.
You make it sound like preaching Christ is a bother. "Well, go ahead, no one's stopping you."


To me it's a joy to share Him; I can't wait for opportunities to present themselves.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
29,318
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#25
You're repeating the common misunderstanding that's already been posted a couple of times. Paul didn't plant churches, he planted seeds: "Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted [the seed], Apollos watered, but God gave the increase."—1 Corinthians 3:5-6

This just proves how deeply ingrained is the error.
You are simply wrong......and what ever the problem is you have with churches in various places is a problem you need to deal with in prayer, because you are speaking against the Kingdom.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,080
448
83
#26
Jesus said, in Matthew 28:18-20: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Where did He ever command us to plant churches? Where are the examples from Acts of church planting? He commanded us to make disciples, not plant churches.

Churches have become an end in themselves; they have more importance to people than making disciples. By their very nature they're inward focused, not outward focused. They say "come," not "go." The building itself has become the focus, at least most of the ones in the US that I know of.

People go to their churches to be be "fed," when they already had the gospel from day one. How much more grazing do we need before we're ready to break out of the walls and go do something? And by "something" I mean make disciples, not plant more churches.
So, some here have taken shots at you, even as they've done on other threads that you've started where you've asked legitimate questions or raised legitimate concerns.

I'll not join hands with them, but I do have a serious question for you:

Are you going out and seeking to make disciples for Jesus Christ yourself?

If you're not, then you really shouldn't be talking about others who aren't doing the same, either.

i heard an expression many years ago which has stuck with me until this day. I actually heard it stated during a Presidential debate.

The expression of which I'm speaking is this:

It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

In other words, if we see others who are doing things that are wrong or even doing the right things in the wrong way, then rather than just sitting around while bad-mouthing them, we need to be doing what is right ourselves, and in the right manner, thereby setting an example for others to hopefully follow.

I got saved almost 34 years ago, and for the first 12 years, I was in church anywhere between 3 to 5 times a week for different services or functions. What I witnessed firsthand during those years was, in a word, horrific. Those horrors eventually compelled me and some friends of mine at that time to start preaching on the streets of New York and New Jersey (I lived in NJ at that time). That was work, and it wasn't always appreciated by our hearers, either. People called the police on us hundreds of times (literally), and some people went so far as to threaten us with bodily harm. My one friend got punched in the mouth, and another had a bottle broken over his head. I had firecrackers thrown at me, had people threaten to shoot me, and a Muslim man charged me while seeking to send me into never-never land, and he might have succeeded if a passer-by on the street hadn't grabbed him and restrained him before he pummeled me.

Anyhow, we did gain some true converts through our preaching, but that only resulted in even more work. In other words, a lot of people asked me to recommend a church to them, and in the sight of God, I honestly couldn't because all of the ones that I had ever stepped foot in were horrible.

What did I do?

Well, I started teaching Bible studies in order to hopefully turn these converts into true disciples of Jesus. In fact, many weekends, I drove from NJ to NY to pick up some recent converts, and then drove all the way to Pennsylvania for Bible studies with them and others that my friend and I knew from PA. Of course, after the studies, I had to drive everyone back to NY before driving home to NJ myself.

My point is this:

Making disciples is work.

If you're doing it yourself, then great.

If you're not, then you really shouldn't be criticizing others who aren't, either.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,177
1,159
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#27
You are simply wrong......and what ever the problem is you have with churches in various places is a problem you need to deal with in prayer, because you are speaking against the Kingdom.
Just show me one example from the scriptures where Paul or anyone else planted a church and I'll agree with you I'm wrong.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,177
1,159
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#29
Are you going out and seeking to make disciples for Jesus Christ yourself?
I share Christ with everyone when I have an opportunity. But I don't say hey, let me tell you about my church, I share Jesus.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,080
448
83
#30
I share Christ with everyone when I have an opportunity. But I don't say hey, let me tell you about my church, I share Jesus.
I hear you.

I'm guess-timating that hundreds of professing Christians have asked me such things as "Do you go to church?" or "What church do you go to?" over the years, but I cannot recall even one of them ever talking to me about Christ or asking me if I know him.

Something is definitely not right...
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,917
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#31
We are taught that those, any, with understanding in th elast days will be scattered. It is also prophesied that in the last times God will call His children out of her, that is to say, the Great Harlot.

Apostasy abounds as we have been forewaarned by Jesus, Heshi Yah. It began to flourish at the time of Paul and his famous laetters, and it has not put on the brakes, ever.

Jesus did not lie, I believe.

That great Harlot is said to be the mother of harlots. Harlotry in the Word is to have departed from the true Husbandd , God and going out to find other gods. Apostasy is sthe greatest giver of imputes for such to happen.

It has been plain and simple from the beginning, and now we verge on the dawn of the New Age, the return of our Savior and His dominion over all that is.

If people here do not get this understanding from the Word afforded all of us by God, I am sorry. The flags of the nations belong to our Father. He has provided us with our oown banner which makes it untoward dto think any one banner from this age is above any other.

Jesus is our Banner. God bless all in the number of the siblings of God,amen.
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
1,309
386
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#32
Jesus said, in Matthew 28:18-20: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Where did He ever command us to plant churches? Where are the examples from Acts of church planting? He commanded us to make disciples, not plant churches.

Churches have become an end in themselves; they have more importance to people than making disciples. By their very nature they're inward focused, not outward focused. They say "come," not "go." The building itself has become the focus, at least most of the ones in the US that I know of.

People go to their churches to be be "fed," when they already had the gospel from day one. How much more grazing do we need before we're ready to break out of the walls and go do something? And by "something" I mean make disciples, not plant more churches.
I am not sure how you can read the book of Acts and not notice that Paul demonstrated a pattern of church planting as the method to reach a city with the Gospel. He would go to synagogues, or a prayer meeting where there was not synagogues which seems to be showing us a pattern of finding people who were interested in the message about Jesus being the messiah.

He would preach from the scriptures this truth and by the time the religious leaders stirred up the crowd against him to kick him out of the synagogue he had made a certain number of coverts.

They would find a meeting place and from that a church was planted. He would soon go to another city and do the same thing. Not only was he doing this but others were doing it.

They did not spend decades with one church but as soon as it was going before it was even all that mature these men and women were found in another city doing the same thing.

What we see is a pattern of making disciples of all nations by planting churches and then the people in those churches continue to reach their communities.

There have been many missionary oriented books written that highlight this pattern in the scriptures. When you see it you have faith for following that pattern as the one God intended and it really works so, there is that.

Check out Rolan Alands book Missionary Methods: St Pauls or Ours. Its a classic on this topic.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,956
469
83
#33
Jesus said, in Matthew 28:18-20: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Where did He ever command us to plant churches? Where are the examples from Acts of church planting? He commanded us to make disciples, not plant churches.

Churches have become an end in themselves; they have more importance to people than making disciples. By their very nature they're inward focused, not outward focused. They say "come," not "go." The building itself has become the focus, at least most of the ones in the US that I know of.

People go to their churches to be be "fed," when they already had the gospel from day one. How much more grazing do we need before we're ready to break out of the walls and go do something? And by "something" I mean make disciples, not plant more churches.
What did Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, etc... do?

They either planted churches or lead them. By Jesus' will for them.

Matthew 18... is a process for resolving disputes in the small c.. church. From Jesus.

Revelation... has the 7 churches.. where the Spirit is the candlestick for each one.

The small c..church is 'the pillar and ground of the truth'

Yes many churches have become social clubs and veered from the biblical model, but the small c church is ideally the source for all real christian fellowship, biblical teaching and guidance.

Jesus is the Head of the small c.. church.

This is much a lesson for me as it is for anyone. That the small c church is really where the Christian's priority should lie.

Trying to build the Kingdom of God without planting churches is like building a fence around a farm with no shelter for the animals.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,177
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#34
What did Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, etc... do?

They either planted churches or lead them. By Jesus' will for them.
Did Paul, Branabas, Apollos, Timothy or anyone else ever say: "Let's go to Macedonia and plant some churches?" Just show even one example of this from Acts and discussion over.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,956
469
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#35
Did Paul, Branabas, Apollos, Timothy or anyone else ever say: "Let's go to Macedonia and plant some churches?" Just show even one example of this from Acts and discussion over.
Well they DID plant churches.. and they DID by Jesus will for them.. so I am not sure what you are getting at.... I think I am missing context here friend :)
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,177
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#36
Well they DID plant churches.. and they DID by Jesus will for them.. so I am not sure what you are getting at.... I think I am missing context here friend :)
Did they plant churches or did they plant Jesus?
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,956
469
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#37
Did they plant churches or did they plant Jesus?
Okay.. well let's start with Jesus and His disciples. That was the first church. First New Testament assembly of saved, baptised believers.. (altho Judas was most likely not saved). Jesus called and led these men as a church.. of course they were saved first and THEN they were a church.

After this you have Antioch, Ephesus, Phillipi, Laodecia, etc etc... where saved people were called together, baptised and assembled as churches, with Jesus as the Head of each one.

All people shown and led by Jesus .. then joining a church. Barely any, if any cases of christians in the NT that are believers that were not in churches.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
3,177
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#38
Absolutely there were churches, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Paul and everyone else preached Jesus; they planted the seeds of the gospel. The Holy Spirit established the churches.

We've somehow gotten the idea that all we have to do is go off and plant some "churches" and Jesus and the Holy Spirit will automatically show up. That's not how it works. If it's not the Spirit's will, we're just wasting time. We have to obey the Spirit; we have to do it His way. And His way is for us to preach the good news and let Him establish the churches.
 

ChristianTonyB

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2022
1,133
414
83
Tin Can Bay
#39
You make it sound like preaching Christ is a bother. "Well, go ahead, no one's stopping you."


To me it's a joy to share Him; I can't wait for opportunities to present themselves.
No, it's not a bother. I'm just careful not to be a nuisance in my neighbourhood, and to leave a way open for people to ask me about the hope I have. Those that I have met know where I stand on matters, as do other aquaintences.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
18,516
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#40
Where did He ever command us to plant churches? Where are the examples from Acts of church planting? He commanded us to make disciples, not plant churches.
This is disingenuous in the extreme. The first church to be planted was the one at Jerusalem. Subsequently churches were planted throughout the Roman empire (and beyond). Therefore we have epistles to the churches at Rome, Corinth, Galatia (a region), Ephesus, Philippi. Colossae, Thessalonica, etc. Then we have the letters to the seven churches in Asia Minor (Turkey). And no doubt there were churches which had been planted in many other towns and cities.