co-heirs with Christ ?

[PeterJens]

Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

rom 8:17


Someone tried to poke fun at me. God does not need help from you with your
salvation, what an idiot.

Others have said God is so great He has done everything, there is nothing for us
to do. Once you believe you are secure. And if you do not believe you are secure
you are in unbelief and so lost.

But Christ comes and says, you are like me, feel my flesh, drink my blood, know the
God from on High walked with you, talked with you, lived with you, and did so without
sin.

He said you can be my friends.
You can be one with me.
You can decide things like I do.

We are far from Him as sinners and know failure, fear, difficulty, struggles, pressure,
all the time.

But Christ came to give us this place. Do you believe this? Can you see it?

 

[Johnny_B]

God has done all there is to do for your salvation, Jesus suffering God's wrath for us is more than enough. We are not called to help God in our salvation, we are called to cooperate with God.

Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

I Peter 1:2-4 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[mailmandan]

God has done all there is to do for your salvation, Jesus suffering God's wrath for us is more than enough. We are not called to help God in our salvation, we are called to cooperate with God.

Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Amen! Work "out," not work for your salvation. This is in regards to ongoing sanctification, not justification.

 

[Stephen63]

Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

Amen! Work "out," not work for your salvation. This is in regards to ongoing sanctification, not justification.

John 15

​

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments,(NT) you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments(OT) and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

BTW, noooooo, "accept me & believe me" isn't obeying Christ's commandments.
BTW II, abiding is "in Christ", not abiding is "not in Christ".

I will post commentaries, if needed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 15

​

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments,(NT) you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments(OT) and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

BTW, noooooo, "accept me & believe me" isn't obeying Christ's commandments.
BTW II, abiding is "in Christ", not abiding is "not in Christ".

I will post commentaries, if needed.

Rom 10: [SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. [SUP]13[/SUP]For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”[SUP][g][/SUP][SUP]14 [/SUP]How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[SUP][h][/SUP]Who bring glad tidings of good things!”[SUP][i][/SUP]


[SUP]16[/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”[SUP][j][/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:



John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Yep. No working here, Hear the words (the gospel) , Have faith, and call out to God..

 

[Grace777x70]

The gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work is always a stumbling block to those of us that think we need to do things to "add" unto what Christ has done. Believing in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is everything.

From this right believing in Him - His life flows in and through us to bear His fruit in our life so that others can see the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord have for those in the world.

This truth is a stumbling block to the religion of Christianity.

How are we saved?

Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

 

[mailmandan]

John 15

​

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments,(NT) you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments(OT) and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13).

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit and the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.

BTW, noooooo, "accept me & believe me" isn't obeying Christ's commandments.

We believe in Him in order to become saved (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..) then afterwards, believers keep His commandments BECAUSE we are saved and not in order to become saved. BTY the Greek word for "keep" means to guard, observe, watch over, properly maintain, keep intact. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of Christ's commandments 100% of the time. John clearly explains in 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

BTW II, abiding is "in Christ", not abiding is "not in Christ".

The Greek word for "abide" is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. This is not something that only super saints do. 1 John 4:15 - Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

I will post commentaries, if needed.

You seem to be obsessed with NOSAS.

 

[PeterJens]

Thanks for the contributions but it appears you do not understand the question.

We are co-heirs with Christ.

co-heirs

I go wow, what a privilege.

You got to ask, what are people so scared about?

 

[mailmandan]

Thanks for the contributions but it appears you do not understand the question.

We are co-heirs with Christ.

co-heirs

I go wow, what a privilege.

You got to ask, what are people so scared about?

Being a co-heir with Christ means that we, as God’s adopted children, will share in the inheritance of Jesus. Why should believers be scared of that?

 

[PeterJens]

Salvation - what is it really, do we know we have it before we meet Jesus?

The Holy Spirit, a seal?

A lot of people claim this but as they believe different things, it is not certain.

Love from the heart? 100% guaranteed confirmation of knowing God along with
know Jesus come in flesh.

So I could say any group that does not preach "love" does not know God.

But the point I am 100% interested in Christ called us to be like Him and with Him, WOW

It is like the Prime minster of a country or president saying, come into my office
and take some of my work load. Let us share this together. Except this is God.

Now I do not know what jobs you have done in your lives, but this bowls me over.

 

[Locutus]

Are you trying to split heirs??

 

[PeterJens]

Being a co-heir with Christ means that we, as God’s adopted children, will share in the inheritance of Jesus. Why should believers be scared of that?

Because I started a thread to talk about being co-heirs with Christ and people want
it to be about salvation.

I think salvation as not being destroyed, is a lets get passed this finishing line
idea, but co-heirs is something much deeper and challenges the way we think
about our calling and Gods expectations of us in eternity and today.

That is scary for some because they do not even expect to match up on a
normal level.

 

[PeterJens]

Are you trying to split heirs??

What are you referring to?

My thought was, ok I am worthy, washed clean, holy, pure, forgiven but just a lowly
post room employee, how could I ever rule with Christ? Is it because actually our
perception of roles and risk are wrong?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Being a co-heir with Christ means that we, as God’s adopted children, will share in the inheritance of Jesus. Why should believers be scared of that?

Amen, It means we share in everything he has, Not that we can add or subtract anything that he did..

 

[mailmandan]

Salvation - what is it really, do we know we have it before we meet Jesus?

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

Romans 8:16 - The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him (proof of the believer being a child of God, whether it comes in mockery, ridicule, or physical persecution) that we may also be glorified together.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

The Holy Spirit, a seal?

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Corinthians 1:22 - who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for/unto the day of redemption.

A lot of people claim this but as they believe different things, it is not certain.

Genuine believers truly know.

Love from the heart? 100% guaranteed confirmation of knowing God along with know Jesus come in flesh.

So I could say any group that does not preach "love" does not know God.

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen, It means we share in everything he has, Not that we can add or subtract anything that he did..

Amen...and this comes when we believe the message of Christ and we then receive His inheritance because we "are sanctified" by faith in Him. Jesus told this truth to Paul on the road to Damascus.

Acts 26:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

"are sanctified" is in the perfect passive in Greek which means a done deal for all time.

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.

Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.

We are set apart/sanctified for receiving Christ's inheritance. This is being a co-heir with Christ. We are one spirit with the Lord forever sealed with the Holy Spirit. John 14:16 & 1 Cor. 6:17

 

[mailmandan]

Because I started a thread to talk about being co-heirs with Christ and people want
it to be about salvation.

I think salvation as not being destroyed, is a lets get passed this finishing line
idea, but co-heirs is something much deeper and challenges the way we think
about our calling and Gods expectations of us in eternity and today.

That is scary for some because they do not even expect to match up on a
normal level.

Only those who have received salvation and are God's adopted children are co-heirs with Christ, so don't act surprised that salvation is discussed. What deeper things would you like to discuss in regards to being co-heirs with Christ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It says we are co Heirs, One who is not a son is not an heir.. You have to become a son first. This is accomplished by redemption and the cross..

 

[PeterJens]

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

Well Dan. 101 a lot of people claim a great deal yet get so much wrong.

If I took a love poll, a lot who say they have knowledge deny the basics.
Also the number of deeply sincere believers who are prepared to kick people on all sides is
surprisingly common.

A hard heart. It makes me wonder how many know what a hard heart is. Again it appears
not, and many deny their hearts need to be purified.

Now if you can get beyond love, having a purified heart, co-heirs is stunning.

Do guys here know this testimony says to me
1. Love is still a stumbling block
2. A hard heart makes everything appear irrelevant.

So I would like to talk to people who know what love is in Christ and have a living
heart in Christ so we can discuss what co-heirs with Christ actually means.

 

[wsblind]

1 Peter 1:4–5 (NASB95)
4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.