COME AND LET US REASON TOGETHER.

[Israel]

you misunderstand the Apostle Paul, He says eating meat is not bad. IT is WORSHIPING the demonic forces that the meat is offered to on the altar of the idol. At that point all meat was offered to idols. so the question is do we have to give up meat. Paul did not want it to be a stumbling block. HE ate meat but gave it up out of love so other would not sin by thinking he approved of IDOL WORSHIP. the issue is not meat but worship of idols.

Those strong in faith should not make the weak stumble. Paul had faith that God would protect him when eating the meat but gave it up- so that those weak and believing the lies of demons who were tormenting them, so they would not stumble. that is walking in LOVE. we are to walk in the Holy Spirit, which is Love. BUt we are still to reprimand and condemn things that GOD condemns.

Hebrews 12 v. 1
"Let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensares us and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us... My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord. Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by him; for whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives..IF you endure chastening God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten. But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons... Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful. nevertheless. afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it"

He goes on to say its not pleasant but necessary.

Roman 13v.1 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God and the authorities that exist are appointed by God" (except when God decides to change the order of the world for HIS purpose)

Romans 13 v. 11-12

"And do this knowing the time that now it is high time to AWAKE out of sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness and let us put on the armor of LIGHT."

I refuse to listen to demons and remain silent when I witness sin I will warn others of their transgression, not through my own power or authority but through the power of the Holy Spirit that resides within me.
YouTube - Josh Wilson - I Refuse (Slideshow With Lyrics)

You have me wrong, friend as I indeed do understand Paul. Again, one man eats pork and the other does not. Is either view wrong however? Both simply chose to eat what they thought was GOOD for their own souls. The problem then is not in what they chose to eat (accept) but in the KNOWLEDGE of it. A typical Christian will start a thread about how wrong it is to eat pork and list his verses backing up his knowledge. Then another will post that through Christ, pork cannot condemn a man and list his verses backing up his knowledge on the topic that he chose to eat from or accept.

Why such an argument? Because it is of the pride in BOTH people. They both are trying to get the other to eat or accept what THEY deemed GOOD to their souls. Now, in understanding Paul, which one is in the wrong? Is it not the one who eats pork? He saw that the Bible says that to eat pork is a"sin". He saw that God does not change. Yet he chose NOT to eat of that commandment in faith to what he did choose to eat (accept). Him now having the greater faith in choosing not to eat what he SAW, he should then not choose to debate it with one who chose to eat of it.

 

[Israel]

if there is no Hell then why did Jesus die for us? you teach but half the truth and that is still a lie. some teach the law, some teach the love. but both is necessary for salvation.

YouTube - Awesome God - Rich Mullins w/ Lyrics


I will pray that you find understanding and grace.

I never said that, friend. If that is what universalism teaches, then please do not label me as such. This is coming from MY WELL. I can SEE that there is a hell. I can SEE that there is a lake of fire. But it is my right to CHOOSE TO ACCEPT IT. My faith is indeed in Christ who saved all of us from what we can see.

If the kingdom is INSIDE of me, then God is too. Me being lord of my temple, is it not my blessing to eat of EVERYTHING that I deem good to me? Am I not doing only what God gave of me to do? Not in the God we can see, but in the God in all of us? MY CHOICES, whether I am blessed or chastised for it is of MY decision as lord of my house.

 

[AnandaHya]

I never said that, friend. If that is what universalism teaches, then please do not label me as such. This is coming from MY WELL. I can SEE that there is a hell. I can SEE that there is a lake of fire. But it is my right to CHOOSE TO ACCEPT IT. My faith is indeed in Christ who saved all of us from what we can see.

If the kingdom is INSIDE of me, then God is too. Me being lord of my temple, is it not my blessing to eat of EVERYTHING that I deem good to me? Am I not doing only what God gave of me to do? Not in the God we can see, but in the God in all of us? MY CHOICES, whether I am blessed or chastised for it is of MY decision as lord of my house.

I thought God was Lord and master of the temple of God's chosen?

 

[Israel]

Isaiah 53


1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


Who can truly believe my message? The Christ I preach has no form. Good is a FORM of perception as is BAD or evil. You all believe that Jesus is the "I AM" of the Bible and indeed He is that. But these verses not only represent Jesus. Ths is the story of us all.

Jason is born in the world. As a baby, the inner man has no form. His entire existence and well being is place THOROUGHLY in the hands of his authorities. As the baby begins to take in knowledge, the inner man knows NOT what good or evil is. He continues to grow and at this stage of young Jason's life and his parents take him out to the park to play. He plays with the kids, but one of the kids has a ball that he wants to play with. out of inpulse, he goes and takes it from the youn girl's hands. Now she's crying and Jason's father goes to him to disciplines him. He takes the ball from him and tells him NOT TO DO THAT BECAUSE THAT IS VERY BAD. Young Jason has now a form of knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL. Now understand this. He did not EAT of it but only HEARD the commandment. But of course we know how kids are! He does it a few moments later but does this mean he now has acquired that knowledge? NO. He's young. He does not know BAD; ONLY THAT HE SHOULD NOT DO IT. He is young and does not know any better as he is only doing that which comes only from in him.

Fast forward to his early teenage years. Puberty has arisen more natural desires and he finds that he likes the BOYS more than the girls. His family goes to a Christian church and knows there view on being gay all too well. Plus his friends constantly talk about the fags when they seem them outside. His inner man, the one that made Jason take the ball from the girl, wants to like boys. He finally eats from the fruit. He hides himself from his inner man because he NOW WANTS TO PLEASE THE ONE OUTSIDE OF HIMSELF. He was ONLY what he WAS, but when Jason saw the face of his inner man, he rejected Him. Poor Jason is now building an image of something pleasing to the eye outside of himself. The one he rejected is there knocking but he won't let him in because the image he built deemed him stricken of God. The servant or the body of Jason hides himself behind the commandment for fear of death whenever that TRUE inner man is heard walking in his mind. He prays to the world about the greatness of Jesus. Then in the closet of his mind, he prays to that inner love that his soul had deemed good to eat. How was there deceit in the inner man's mouth? He will die without saying a word bearing Jason's grief and afflictions.


This message is free. No cost or form. Eat of it and be satisfied that all men are saved!

 

[Israel]

I thought God was Lord and master of the temple of God's chosen?

He is. The only difference is He runs it from within and not me running it from without.

 

[pickles]

Pickles, I do not know the beliefs of universalism. And as of now, I will not attempt to look it up at all. Every thing I posted on this thread came from within me.

Now reason with me. What harm could I possibly do in ministering a message I fully believe in with all of my heart. If a murderer were to believe in my message with all of his heart and then kills again, he then deserves his fate. But the bible says who can believe such a report? This murderer is POOR in lack of faith. I tell him he's saved regardless and God loves him. He will listen, but say in his heart; " I can't afford salvation! I KNOW I HAVE DONE EVIL. The RICH are those who do the good things out of the law. However they view the law to be, even if they say we are in Christ, the hope is place on the good of a law THAT THEY CAN SEE. A man who obeys God's holy days, honour the levitical laws, and takes the Saturday Sabbath seriously has gained many possesions through the law. But if were to preach to him that salvaton is offered to all, for him to BELIEVE THAT he would have to give up what he thought would save him. He believes going to worship on Saturday and not eating unclean meat and celebrating pagan holidays will save him. He will not believe because he would have to give all that up. This message is WORTHLESS TO HIM.

Pickles, beloved of God. You are one of the most sincere people I've come across since I've joined CC. You are in the image of God. So how do YOU view heaven? I can SEE the lake of fire from the scriptures BUT I CHOOSE NOT TO EAT OF IT. My heaven has death swallowed in victory for all.

Please count it all for a loss to win Christ.

Hi Israel, sorry I did not get back to you sooner.
I believe some of my concern about other posts just spilled into yours.
The concern on this is wrapped up with what has been a big dissusion lately.
As to salvation, I still like you ,hold this promise very close to heart and desire to share the good word as well on this.
As to your question about heaven?
There are many answers in scripture, I wonder if Heaven is more a description of being in God's presance, rather than one spacific place.
Simply because as I have continued to read the bible, it seems as though there is more than one place we can reside in Gods care.
As to my hearts desire in heaven, I look to being free of all pain and suffering, free of all that has tried to steal in the world.
My great hope is to rest as a child again, in the arms of God Our Father, just for a little while.
Simply because I have never known the protective and loving arms of a father.
Other than this, I look forward to praising and living as we have been called to, free of evil's presance
and temptation.
One might best sum it up with scripture though, : no one has seen, no one knows , the greatness of what God has prepared for those that love Him, but He has revieled it to us through His Holy Spirit!

God bless you.
pickles

 

[AnandaHya]

Israel you describe people in terms of the flesh. When we are baptized in water and the HOLY SPIRIT then the Spirit that resides within us will be at war with flesh. You are choosing to be blind to those scriptures. then let me bring to your remembrance 2 sections of scriptures one from Revelations and one from Romans. I don't speak to cause contention, merely to point out that your reasoning for allowing sin to continue concerns me for God has revealed what He thinks yet you refuse to believe. It is not "a fruit" but the very words of GOD that is the foundations of Christian believers. If you allow the seed of doubt and skepticism to continue to grow you will not like the fruit they bear for we do not battle enemies of the flesh but of the spirit.

i will pray for you and that your name is not taken away from the Book of Life.

A Warning

Revelations 22 v.18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[j] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[k] his part from the Book[l] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Galatians 5
Walking in the Spirit


16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[d] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

God is master of all of creation:

YouTube - All Of Creation - Mercyme

Praise His holy name.

 

[Israel]

The message I deliver has no form. It cannot be brought or sold. For it is life and peace from life and peace. If you cannot acquire heaven by what you see as good works, why then believe that you can lose it by what you can LOSE it by what you deem as bad works?

 

[pickles]

It is not about us aquiring heaven, Jesus has already done this for us.
It is about wether we choose life or death!
God Our Father created us with free will.
Fire and water are set before us, each will choose eather life or death!

In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

 

[Israel]

It is not about us aquiring heaven, Jesus has already done this for us.
It is about wether we choose life or death!
God Our Father created us with free will.
Fire and water are set before us, each will choose eather life or death!

In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

For the earnest expectation of the creature is the manifestation of the sons of God. The creature was made SUBJECTED TO VANITY. Not willingly, but by reason of HIM who subjected also the sons of God to the same. A man can only chose his path. It is the Lord which directs his steps.

 

[pickles]

Isreal, I know it is a debated issue.
I have seen scripture say, God gave us free will and we need to choose.
But, scripture speaks to God Lorving us before the creation of the world.
There is scripture that warns us, as to choosing the right path.
Scripture that also says we cannot know what is right, that is why we need to live in Jesus as He is our salvation.
Ive seen debates and argument after debate on this.
I do believe that in choosing Jesus always, living in the love we are called to, we recieve salvation.
But, I do believe as God said in scripture, we choose life or death.
Jesus is Life!
I cannot try to judge what one would choose that brings death, simply because it would involve judgement.
I will always witness to the love of God in Jesus, that brings life!
I believe the scripture that speaks to death, is there so we will be always choosing Jesus!
I know every day, I try to choose all that is Jesus and His love in all I do.
I do know that God Our Father does not waste words, so Im not going to try and explain why hell is spoken to.
Only that God Our Father loves us, and everything given in the scriptures, is to His glory, and of His love!
We are called to witness to the good news in Jesus!
I cannot presume to know everything of God Our Father.
I will rest the rest, in Jesus, in God Our Father.


In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

 

[AnandaHya]

The message I deliver has no form. It cannot be brought or sold. For it is life and peace from life and peace. If you cannot acquire heaven by what you see as good works, why then believe that you can lose it by what you can LOSE it by what you deem as bad works?

israel it is not my salvation that I'm worried about. through the grace of God we are saved and we will remain saved. the question then is why do good works?

Because we seek to show others that GOD exists and loves them still. So the we are a light unto the world and the seed of grace God places in their heart will take root and grow so they too can confess, repent and be saved through the grace of Jesus.

therefore we do not do as we wish but as God directs us. However we should be mindful and not lead others to stray, not place stumbling blocks before those weak in faith because of our freedom we should not use it to cover up vice. We should live holy and righteous lives as Holy Spirit directs us.

I do not know who will go to Hell, that is God's domain. But I can tell when someone is walking down a path that leads others towards hell and damnation because they do not know God and when they see Christain's acting no better or worse then other people in the world. it causes them to lose faith and stumble.

Therefore if you call upon the name of Jesus you should live in a manner befitting salvation or you bring down curses and damnation upon yourself (i'm not talking about hell, i'm talking about death, disease, nightmares, martial issues, etc things that plague THIS world)

Free will: its still a choice to love God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul

or

to do as your fleshy members and other people direct you to do.

YouTube - Lifesong - Casting Crowns

 

[Israel]

israel it is not my salvation that I'm worried about. through the grace of God we are saved and we will remain saved. the question then is why do good works?

Because we seek to show others that GOD exists and loves them still. So the we are a light unto the world and the seed of grace God places in their heart will take root and grow so they too can confess, repent and be saved through the grace of Jesus.

therefore we do not do as we wish but as God directs us. However we should be mindful and not lead others to stray, not place stumbling blocks before those weak in faith because of our freedom we should not use it to cover up vice. We should live holy and righteous lives as Holy Spirit directs us.

I do not know who will go to Hell, that is God's domain. But I can tell when someone is walking down a path that leads others towards hell and damnation because they do not know God and when they see Christain's acting no better or worse then other people in the world. it causes them to lose faith and stumble.

Therefore if you call upon the name of Jesus you should live in a manner befitting salvation or you bring down curses and damnation upon yourself (i'm not talking about hell, i'm talking about death, disease, nightmares, martial issues, etc things that plague THIS world)

Free will: its still a choice to love God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul

or

to do as your fleshy members and other people direct you to do.

YouTube - Lifesong - Casting Crowns

If you believe in salvation and will not believe my message, how then can a murderer believe? Why do you believe that you deserved to be saved? You believe as well as the devils. If I deemed eating pork evil to my soul and another deems it good, who is right? Is a man better because he goes to church on saturday? If God is within me, why then build an image to something outside of myself? Most of all, what GOOD things out of the law do you obey that the world or unbelievers do not?

 

[Israel]

When will we stop JUDGING according to the flesh? We talk like we all KNOW Jesus but the sad truth is that most of us can only quote other verses to it's meaning. But if the flesh is the veil, then what are the words on the page of your Bible? Is it not the veil as well?

For those of us who's been on CC for a while when I was known as truthseeker1976. I've grown up a lot spiritually since then and learned a lot here.


I will give you an example of what it means in my life. I will start by asking a simple question and I hope that whoever reads and know me by my posts, to honestly answer it.

How do YOU see ME? Please be honest even if it is in disdain of what I have stood for from then, to now.

 

[AnandaHya]

i think your previous name was accurate. that you seek the truth and that you probably have found more of it now then you had earlier. That God is helping you grow and become the person He means for you to be. Just as God is helping all His children grow and learn His will.

I might not always agree with you but that is because I want to share what knowledge God has given me so you don't have to go through the same lessons, but in the end its between you and God. now to address your other questions to me.

If you believe in salvation and will not believe my message, how then can a murderer believe?
by confessing and truly repenting of his sins. He must say that HE is a murderer, not deny that murder is a sin and turn away and in his heart never want to do it again. some people enjoy killing and having that power over others and according to your logic. if they think its ok, then its not a sin. BUt that is a lie. it is still a sin and they will be punished unless they confess and stop walking down that road to hell. THey must ask Jesus for grace and mercy to save them, forgive them and heal them.

Why do you believe that you deserved to be saved? I don't deserve to be saved that is the meaning of grace: unwarranted salvation as a gift from God

You believe as well as the devils. If I deemed eating pork evil to my soul and another deems it good, who is right? (doesn't matter isn't a salvation issue)

Is a man better because he goes to church on saturday? NO

If God is within me, why then build an image to something outside of myself? because its fun to paint picture?

Most of all, what GOOD things out of the law do you obey that the world or unbelievers do not? I believe in God and try to live my life accordingly. when someone offends me I try to remember to bless them and help them instead of curse them and tear them down. I try to spread love and reflect the Light of God within me to the world, by helping others while most think only of helping themselves and their image. I try to point all glory and goodness to God who directs and guides me when I stop long enough to listen. I do not seek to justify myself but let God and the words the proceed from my heart do it instead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_rTX23V7Q&feature=related

May you continue to walk in the blessing of the Lord

 

[Israel]

i think your previous name was accurate. that you seek the truth and that you probably have found more of it now then you had earlier. That God is helping you grow and become the person He means for you to be. Just as God is helping all His children grow and learn His will.

I might not always agree with you but that is because I want to share what knowledge God has given me so you don't have to go through the same lessons, but in the end its between you and God. now to address your other questions to me.

If you believe in salvation and will not believe my message, how then can a murderer believe?
by confessing and truly repenting of his sins. He must say that HE is a murderer, not deny that murder is a sin and turn away and in his heart never want to do it again. some people enjoy killing and having that power over others and according to your logic. if they think its ok, then its not a sin. BUt that is a lie. it is still a sin and they will be punished unless they confess and stop walking down that road to hell. THey must ask Jesus for grace and mercy to save them, forgive them and heal them.

Why do you believe that you deserved to be saved? I don't deserve to be saved that is the meaning of grace: unwarranted salvation as a gift from God

You believe as well as the devils. If I deemed eating pork evil to my soul and another deems it good, who is right? (doesn't matter isn't a salvation issue)

Is a man better because he goes to church on saturday? NO

If God is within me, why then build an image to something outside of myself? because its fun to paint picture?

Most of all, what GOOD things out of the law do you obey that the world or unbelievers do not? I believe in God and try to live my life accordingly. when someone offends me I try to remember to bless them and help them instead of curse them and tear them down. I try to spread love and reflect the Light of God within me to the world, by helping others while most think only of helping themselves and their image. I try to point all glory and goodness to God who directs and guides me when I stop long enough to listen. I do not seek to justify myself but let God and the words the proceed from my heart do it instead

YouTube - Who Am I - Casting Crowns

May you continue to walk in the blessing of the Lord

Now by all of what you consider to be God, I ask YOU. Am I saved along side you?

 

[pickles]

As I read these words, I considered Pauls words as to salvation, He spoke to running the race, keeping the faith, but mainly saying that it is the goal that matters.
We must keep running towards the goal, seeking it always.
It is in these words that the answer rests.

Isreal, in answer to your question? As long as I have known you, I know that you are always running towards the goal.

In Jesus, Gosd bless.
pickles

 

[Israel]

I humbly ask you all again. Based upon my words here on CC,do you see me saved alongside you?

 

[pickles]

Isreal, of course!
But then , Ive always believed that we are saved in the now, but we must always be running the race, seeking the goal.
Its not for you or I to judge though, I believe the only one that can judge this is Jesus.
Like Paul said, not that I have obtained the goal, but am always seeking it!
God bless. pickles.
Sorry if Im not quoting well, gotta work on this.

 

[pickles]

Isreal, has some one said or told you that you are not saved?
Dont let the judgement of another bring any condemnation to you.
Jesus is in your heart.
God bless.
pickles