Coming of Christ

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Jruiz

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
565
3
18
#1
I was reading and I read that the 2nd coming of Christ wouldn't happen until these prophecies has been for filled..One was Israel would be at peace for 7 years ....another is Babylon has to be rebuilt....Anyway Is their anyone who thinks that we're living in the last days ? Do you think he'll come back in your life time...Of course no one knows the day or time but I was really hoping soon..but now that I read about these prophecies that hadn't even been for filled yet, makes me feel like it's not gonna happen for awhile...puts me in a bad mood ....
 

JesusIsAll

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2014
5,167
94
0
#2
There's a "doctrine of imminence" many Christians adhere to, which states that the Lord Jesus will come as a "thief in the night," unexpectedly, as scripture states. It's not possible to believe what the Bible teaches about His return for His bride, in light of rapture verses, and require the tribulation events to happen first. If this were the case, one would know when the Lord is going to return, i.e., at the end of the 7 years of "Jacob's trouble." If you see this can't be the case, the Lord can come at any time, this very minute, or years hence. Nobody can, with certainty, tell you when the "blessed hope" will come, except crackpots or those overzealous, who, to date, have been 100% wrong, when their false prophecies elapsed. All we know is the Matthew 24 events are coming upon us, all over the news, and Israel is a nation again, which is required for Old Testament and New Testament end times apocalyptic events to occur. We have the signs of being the end times generation. And we are closer today than yesterday, but, sorry, wouldn't mark a calendar: just always be looking and ready, heeding the lesson of the Laodicean church of Revelation.

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1 Thessalonians 1:8-10 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5:8-9 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Interesting of Geneva Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that the man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition, which is an adversary, and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doeth already work; only he which now withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked man be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightness of his coming.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Jude 1:14-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh WITH ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Revelation 19:11-14)

Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.

Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Psalms 27:4-5 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple. For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Isaiah 26:19-21 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers [wedding chambers], and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
264
83
#3
Things don't just begin to happen when Christ returns. At this very moment, Christ is with you, wanting to enjoy THIS day with you.

The 2nd coming will happen when it does. But Jesus said, "I have come that they may have life and have it more abundantly." John 10:10. He is talking about your life now. Walking through each day with a sense of His peaceful, helping presence with you might take that bad mood away.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,258
139
0
#4
I was reading and I read that the 2nd coming of Christ wouldn't happen until these prophecies has been for filled..One was Israel would be at peace for 7 years ....another is Babylon has to be rebuilt....Anyway Is their anyone who thinks that we're living in the last days ? Do you think he'll come back in your life time...Of course no one knows the day or time but I was really hoping soon..but now that I read about these prophecies that hadn't even been for filled yet, makes me feel like it's not gonna happen for awhile...puts me in a bad mood ....
No one knows the day or the hour yet Christ said this...

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

He also gave some other information...

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

There is quite a bit of information there.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
83
#5
I was reading and I read that the 2nd coming of Christ wouldn't happen until these prophecies has been for filled..One was Israel would be at peace for 7 years ....another is Babylon has to be rebuilt....Anyway Is their anyone who thinks that we're living in the last days ? Do you think he'll come back in your life time...Of course no one knows the day or time but I was really hoping soon..but now that I read about these prophecies that hadn't even been for filled yet, makes me feel like it's not gonna happen for awhile...puts me in a bad mood ....
I wouldn't give up hope just yet,there is an event called the rapture in which the Lord takes us into the sky right before the tribulation begins. This is not his second coming as we are going to meet him in the sky and the second coming he comes down to earth as a conbquering king

1 Thessalonians 4:17 …16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,258
139
0
#6
I wouldn't give up hope just yet,there is an event called the rapture in which the Lord takes us into the sky right before the tribulation begins. This is not his second coming as we are going to meet him in the sky and the second coming he comes down to earth as a conbquering king
That would not be the second coming then, it would be the THIRD COMING.

There ain't no rapture.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
83
#7
That would not be the second coming then, it would be the THIRD COMING.

There ain't no rapture.
Can you provide evidence that says we will not be taken? That we are appointed to the wrath of God in the tribulation? I believe Jesus said to always be on watch because he would come like a thief in the night.



  • Matthew 24:40-41
    Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Now I dont know about you but this sounds exactly like the rapture, why would Jesus command his followers to keep watch and to wait excitedly for him to appear?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,258
139
0
#8
Can you provide evidence that says we will not be taken? That we are appointed to the wrath of God in the tribulation? I believe Jesus said to always be on watch because he would come like a thief in the night.



  • Matthew 24:40-41
    Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Now I dont know about you but this sounds exactly like the rapture, why would Jesus command his followers to keep watch and to wait excitedly for him to appear?
What happens at the seventh (last) Trump?

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

When Christ returns, what happens?

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Christ returns to earth. He doesn't make a near miss then come again. That is a fable originated by Francisco Ribera in the 1500's and popularized in the early 1800's by Charles Nelson Darby.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,316
364
83
#9
The rapture is not in Revelation. There is a second coming of Christ when He returns for Israel to whom He came the first time. The rapture is a church event. I believe it is a pre-tribulation event. The second coming is prophesied to Israel the rapture is a promise to the church. All the symbolism in Revelation is mute as far as the rapture is concerned. We look for it as this age grows more and more like the time of Noah. After the church is gone things get real exciting for those left behind.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,016
857
113
#10
Post tribulation/pre-wrath resurrection change at the 7th trump of Revelation.

2nd Thessalonians 2....MAN of SIN revealed first and the complete (apostitization) <---my word submitted for dictionary...of humanity

Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 AFTER the TRIBULATION of those day...ANGELS sent (the reapers parable of wheat and tares) to gather the ELECT from one end of heaven to the other and the UTTERMOST parts of heaven and the earth.

God begins to move against TARES first and the tribulation period KILLS over HALF of the worlds population which is finally decimated in the wrath of GOD<-----JIVES with moving against tares first.

Daniel/Revelation<---BEAST/LITTLE HORN a.k.a. Anti-Christ (so-called) MAKES WAR AGAINST the SAINT, WEARS OUT THE SAINTS of GOD and PREVAILS against them for 3.5 years/1260 days/42 months

COMING SOON!
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
3,719
40
48
#11
I wouldn't give up hope just yet,there is an event called the rapture in which the Lord takes us into the sky right before the tribulation begins...
Wishful thinking...to say the least! :p

2Thess 2v1-4: "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

2Thess 2v1-4 clearly teaches that the coming of the Lord Jesus and our assembling to meet Him happen on the SAME day, AFTER Antichrist is revealed, i.e. AFTER the Great Tribulation! Matt 24v29-31

Yahweh Shalom
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,016
857
113
#12
Wishful thinking...to say the least! :p

2Thess 2v1-4: "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

2Thess 2v1-4 clearly teaches that the coming of the Lord Jesus and our assembling to meet Him happen on the SAME day, AFTER Antichrist is revealed, i.e. AFTER the Great Tribulation! Matt 24v29-31

Yahweh Shalom
Totally agree with this as the imminent return theory is a fairy tale! One of the fables that people have turned to in the last 200 years give or take. Literally....Now concerning the parousia of Jesus Christ...that is to say our gathering together unto HIM........written to a N.T. CHURCH who had believed they had missed the (rapture) because of tribulation, which was a sure sign that they had not missed it.
 
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Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
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#13
Well im not really in the mood to get into another pre rapture post rapture debate again I was just giving the op some hope. There are plenty of scriptures to prove our different beliefs and if the debating actually taught ppl and something good came of it then it might be worth debating but nothing good ever comes from these types of debates and the discussions are always the same. The same scriptures are used the same theories even the the use of the rapture being a thing some person in history made up is used every single time.

Its like listening to a recording over and over and ppl get mad at each other and words are used that shouldnt be used and satan is over here laughing his butt off.... no ty if everyone wants to debate about this be my guest but im just saying look at the history of every thread made about this subject
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,016
857
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#14
Well im not really in the mood to get into another pre rapture post rapture debate again I was just giving the op some hope. There are plenty of scriptures to prove our different beliefs and if the debating actually taught ppl and something good came of it then it might be worth debating but nothing good ever comes from these types of debates and the discussions are always the same. The same scriptures are used the same theories even the the use of the rapture being a thing some person in history made up is used every single time.

Its like listening to a recording over and over and ppl get mad at each other and words are used that shouldnt be used and satan is over here laughing his butt off.... no ty if everyone wants to debate about this be my guest but im just saying look at the history of every thread made about this subject
Well there is only one truth concerning the second coming of Christ and to be quite frank.....multitudes of truth is rejected to teach the present day heresy concerning the BODY presence of Jesus and US being gathered together unto him.....so what ever happened to putting on your armor and taking up the sword and swing away for the sake of truth!
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
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#15
Well there is only one truth concerning the second coming of Christ and to be quite frank.....multitudes of truth is rejected to teach the present day heresy concerning the BODY presence of Jesus and US being gathered together unto him.....so what ever happened to putting on your armor and taking up the sword and swing away for the sake of truth!
Believe me I have done this many times but Its always the same end result and honestly I cant take another one. It doesnt edify, it doesnt give glory to God and it in noway helps others in the growth of love. Believe me if the results were somehow different then yes I would be all for it but there have been countless threads about it and every single one was the same just a bunch of arguing throwing and twisting and misunderstanding of scriptures name calling rudeness mockery you get the jest. I am on here to grow learn and help others I have no interest in useless arguing. There is a time to debate and a time to know when you just need to sit this one out. satan loves to use these types of debates to cause trouble strife anger and chaos in the body of Christ and I will not give him another reason to lol
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,016
857
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#16
Believe me I have done this many times but Its always the same end result and honestly I cant take another one. It doesnt edify, it doesnt give glory to God and it in noway helps others in the growth of love. Believe me if the results were somehow different then yes I would be all for it but there have been countless threads about it and every single one was the same just a bunch of arguing throwing and twisting and misunderstanding of scriptures name calling rudeness mockery you get the jest. I am on here to grow learn and help others I have no interest in useless arguing. There is a time to debate and a time to know when you just need to sit this one out. satan loves to use these types of debates to cause trouble strife anger and chaos in the body of Christ and I will not give him another reason to lol
well....I see your point, but also disagree to some extent....the ones posting truth are preaching truth and the ones who will argue against the truth are doing exactly that...arguing......Paul had numerous Pharisees and Lawyers who ARGUED against the truth that HE was preaching....so...If you are preaching truth you are not arguing and on top of that there were those who Preached out of CONTENTION and yet Paul clearly writes that it did not matter to him as the WORD has the ability to shine through all arguments, bickering and fighting while still bringing honor to God and his Word.....Just a thought or two....!
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
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#17
well....I see your point, but also disagree to some extent....the ones posting truth are preaching truth and the ones who will argue against the truth are doing exactly that...arguing......Paul had numerous Pharisees and Lawyers who ARGUED against the truth that HE was preaching....so...If you are preaching truth you are not arguing and on top of that there were those who Preached out of CONTENTION and yet Paul clearly writes that it did not matter to him as the WORD has the ability to shine through all arguments, bickering and fighting while still bringing honor to God and his Word.....Just a thought or two....!
But the whole issue is the truth, see all sides believe they are preaching the truth. The truth is easily missed by each persons interpretation, and clearly we cannot rely on the word of God anymore as one scripture has like 7 different interpretations to different ppl.
What you and I see as the truth are two very different things we both believe our belief to be the truth so we are fighting in the sense that we are preaching the truth.

But probably the worst issue is how most ppl are not willing to learn and admit they were wrong. most are not teachable and are not open minded.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,316
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#18
Don't worry God has it right. If one has a right relationship through Christ no matter what it all ends good.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
30,016
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#19
But the whole issue is the truth, see all sides believe they are preaching the truth. The truth is easily missed by each persons interpretation, and clearly we cannot rely on the word of God anymore as one scripture has like 7 different interpretations to different ppl.
What you and I see as the truth are two very different things we both believe our belief to be the truth so we are fighting in the sense that we are preaching the truth.

But probably the worst issue is how most ppl are not willing to learn and admit they were wrong. most are not teachable and are not open minded.
well that is true and at the end of the day it does come down to an inability to admit error and change your stance....but also I will add...if one can prove a doctrine that contradicts what I believe I will immediately acknowledge the truth and change my view....I have spent the better part of the last 25 years studying the truth...which is three years longer than you have been alive....can I be wrong...you bet, but also at the same time...many who are young in the faith will argue with those who have studied a lifetime....ALL I know is this...I was a die hard Imminent return theologian and argued against everybody and anybody who taught any differently because that is what I HAD always BEEN taught my whole life until I had to teach through the Thessalonian Letters which caused me to question what I had been taught...NOW after 25 years of specific study on the END I have changed my mind because of three questions that cannot be answered in context by those who teach imminent return and certain fallacies associated with said doctrine for example....

Jesus magically appears and the saved disappear and the world wonders where we went...

1. Saved disciples see him come with the clouds and great glory
2. The Lost religious see him come with clouds and great glory
3. Every eye shall see him come with clouds and great glory
4. Every kindred and all the kings of the earth shall see him come with great glory

The 4 above contradict an invisible, imminent return where we disappear

Ok so people will say well the rapture and Jesus second coming are not the same event...

My answer....Jesus...was, is and IS TO COME<---only one coming (parousia) body presence translated coming is recorded so everything must jive with one coming...not TWO!
 
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jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
3,719
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#20
Don't worry God has it right. If one has a right relationship through Christ no matter what it all ends good.
Really?

Then why are there quite a few warnings that the believer should NOT be deceived regarding when Christ returns? Matt 24v4, Luke 21v8, Rom 13v11, 1Thess 5v1-4, 2Thess 2v3, 1Tim 4v1, 2Tim 3v1, Rev 11v16

The doctrine of the Second Coming of Christ is the MOST important in all the Scriptures, it is the most ubiquitous teaching in the Bible!