Concerning the gift of tongues

[ocean]

Fair, thanks for the advice of skimming through. Just trying to add dialogue, but I agree, I should have read more posts before commenting.

Sure. Good to get the 'lay of the land' when you are a new member. There are some real tongues haters in this forum and I am sure you will come across that. They will not address the scripture Paul wrote concerning spiritual gifts, but will pick out verses out of context they think support their opinions. They are the only ones that think that works.

 

[ocean]

Trust and Obey is not attacking scripture. He is pointing out your error on this issue.

You have refused to show any verses that support your claim to personally practice this gift.

The best you have done is to show that many in the New Testament had this ability and nothing more.

All Christians accept that this happened.

Speaking in tongues is a physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
It is a event not meant to be defended by scripture but instead actually witnessed.

Tongues are not a act of faith but a bodily act of the Holy Spirit. You do not need faith to witness tongues.

Attempting to defend a ongoing tangible event with something written 2000 years ago is a sign that the event is bogus.

At this point, and somewhat out of context for how I normally answer but your repetitive false accusations are ridiculous at this point.
All I hear from you now is blabbity blabbity blabbity blah blah.

 

[ocean]

The best you have done is to show that many in the New Testament had this ability and nothing more.

All Christians accept that this happened.

We are still in New Testament times until Christ returns. NOW is the day of your salvation. God knows those who are His and those who are posturing.

All Christians are not represented by your error(s)

 

[ocean]

to be honest I have the holy spirit but since I do not speak in tongues I wonder if there is a difference between having the holy spirit and being baptized in the holy spirit.

ALL real Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit so you are covered on that one Blain. If you carefully go through the book of Acts, you will see where there were believers who had not yet 'received' the Holy Spirit as per the occasion on the day of Pentecost and then they were prayed for and began to speak in tongues AFTER already being saved.

Speaking in tongues does not save you nor does any other spiritual gift. We can only come before God because of the sacrifice of Jesus and His blood shed for us. You probably know this but remember that too many people confuse being sealed at the point of salvation with a separate experience of being 'filled' with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues or other spiritual gifts.

Believe me though, no gift makes a person better than another. Some people throw out discernment and accept anything and everything as being from the Holy Spirit and they go down strange paths and believe strange things and attribute them to God.
That, is how you end up with people making animal noises or 'grave sucking' or prophesying when God did not say or indicate what
they say He did.

Deception is no joke and a person should be very familiar with the Bible before they go around telling others 'what God said'. I am convinced (with plenty of experience) that there really are not that many people who actually do speak on behalf of God.

 

[ocean]

Well, the thing is is the historical context of what Corinth was like. I will check again, but that history adds another layer.

As was already noted, your observations are correct about Corinth but there is not one word in first or second Corinthians that indicates the Corinthians were speaking in tongues by a demonic power. They were not speaking in demonic tongues; they were out of order in the way they spoke in tongues (like too many churches today).

You may note the difference between correction and telling someone to cease and desist.

 

[ocean]

There is no glory in speaking in your native language but claim to be speaking in a supernaturally powered tongue...whoa!!!

This is simply all there is to this nonsense.

Deep down they all know this.

Above is the posters opinion on tongues. A mocking attitude and the belief he knows all about something because he read a book or listens to a cessationist preacher. He gets angry about the entire subject rather than trying to discuss it. Seems to think it's his way or the highway.

 

[Blain]

Above is the posters opinion on tongues. A mocking attitude and the belief he knows all about something because he read a book or listens to a cessationist preacher. He gets angry about the entire subject rather than trying to discuss it. Seems to think it's his way or the highway.

and the way he goes about making false accusations and attacking you like that....

 

[Blain]

ALL real Christians are sealed with the Holy Spirit so you are covered on that one Blain. If you carefully go through the book of Acts, you will see where there were believers who had not yet 'received' the Holy Spirit as per the occasion on the day of Pentecost and then they were prayed for and began to speak in tongues AFTER already being saved.

Speaking in tongues does not save you nor does any other spiritual gift. We can only come before God because of the sacrifice of Jesus and His blood shed for us. You probably know this but remember that too many people confuse being sealed at the point of salvation with a separate experience of being 'filled' with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues or other spiritual gifts.

Believe me though, no gift makes a person better than another. Some people throw out discernment and accept anything and everything as being from the Holy Spirit and they go down strange paths and believe strange things and attribute them to God.
That, is how you end up with people making animal noises or 'grave sucking' or prophesying when God did not say or indicate what
they say He did.

Deception is no joke and a person should be very familiar with the Bible before they go around telling others 'what God said'. I am convinced (with plenty of experience) that there really are not that many people who actually do speak on behalf of God.

yeah I have seen many speak for God when in fact they really are not this is why I tell such people who claim to be prophets to be careful claiming to speak for him because they will be held accountable for all the sheep they mislead youtube is absolutely swarmed with such people

I have not found one real prophet on youtube I like to watch youtube a lot so trust me I wish I knew of one to watch but sadly not a one to be found

 

[wattie]

As was already noted, your observations are correct about Corinth but there is not one word in first or second Corinthians that indicates the Corinthians were speaking in tongues by a demonic power. They were not speaking in demonic tongues; they were out of order in the way they spoke in tongues (like too many churches today).

You may note the difference between correction and telling someone to cease and desist.

Well.. here is the history that I mean..regarding the paganism at Corinth...

The mystery-cults of the empire were designed to induce both higher and lower forms of ecstatic feeling."29 The expression of the ecstatic state took various forms, such as gashing one’s flesh, dancing nude in a frenzy, and speaking in ecstatic utterance. The latter was the means whereby the devotees sought to have communion with the saving deity. Here the significance of the term "glossolalia," or "speaking in tongues," comes to the fore. "The gift of tongues and of their interpretation was not peculiar to the Christian Church, but was a repetition in it of a phrase common in ancient religions. The very phrase glossais lalein, ‘to speak with tongues,’ was not invented by the New Testament writers, but borrowed from ordinary speech."30

From the seeking4truth website.


So.. it is correction Paul is speaking of, but it would be reasonable to think given the other issues Corinth had, that this kind of tongues was also what Paul was addressing.

 

[wolfwint]

do they have similar beliefs or are they different in doctrines? I have been accused of being a charismatic but honestly never understood what that is exactly but it soundd like a bad thing to be called

Well the Pentecostal and charismatics are almost unit in the question of the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the sign of speaking in tongues. But it the theology you can find all denominations and directions. F.e You can find calvinism teaching and menonite teaching, which is contrary to each other.
The Pentecostals and charismatics often dont agree with each other teachings.
You can find those with a serious, biblical teaching and those with unserious and non biblical teachings. From far right to far left.

 

[wolfwint]

do you mean the spirit being breathed into someone?

I mean this was Jesus did to the apostles, when he first showed himself to them, except Thomas, because he was not in this meeting.

 

[wattie]

Also more on this history around Corinth:

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/1871/the-truth-about-tongues-part-1

 

[Taylorj2]

Also more on this history around Corinth:

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/1871/the-truth-about-tongues-part-1

If you are going to come with references, how about you choose theologians or scholars that approach it without presuppositions. Both of the references you gave are Cessationist and against the spiritual gifts being active today. Have you searched any spirit-filled theologians that speak on the gifts that have an opposite view? Also, what about Neutral theologians like N.T. Wright?

 

[Blain]

Also more on this history around Corinth:

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/1871/the-truth-about-tongues-part-1

my question is since there is no recorded records of such things happening and only interpretations where do they get their information from and why should we believe them?

 

[Blain]

I mean this was Jesus did to the apostles, when he first showed himself to them, except Thomas, because he was not in this meeting.

Well Thomas was filled with the holy spirit perhaps not at the time the apostles were given it but he was at pentecost when the spirit came down wasn't he?

 

[Lamar]

At this point, and somewhat out of context for how I normally answer but your repetitive false accusations are ridiculous at this point.
All I hear from you now is blabbity blabbity blabbity blah blah.

All of the accusations are well founded which is why you ignore them.

You claim to posses the same physical supernatural manifestation as in the New Testament but show no fruit.

Claims without fruit.

You are just as much of a charlatan as those you rail against.

 

[Taylorj2]

Trust and Obey is not attacking scripture. He is pointing out your error on this issue.

You have refused to show any verses that support your claim to personally practice this gift.

The best you have done is to show that many in the New Testament had this ability and nothing more.

All Christians accept that this happened.

Speaking in tongues is a physical supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
It is a event not meant to be defended by scripture but instead actually witnessed.

Tongues are not a act of faith but a bodily act of the Holy Spirit. You do not need faith to witness tongues.

Attempting to defend a ongoing tangible event with something written 2000 years ago is a sign that the event is bogus.

Question: Where does it show in the NT that tongues was used in a witness for unbelievers besides Acts 2?

 

[Lamar]

Question: Where does it show in the NT that tongues was used in a witness for unbelievers besides Acts 2?

Answer: As far as I know, none.

Question: What is the point of your question in reference to my post# 220?

 

[Taylorj2]

Answer: As far as I know, none.

Question: What is the point of your question in reference to my post# 220?

For this follow-up question: If the gifts are not used in witness and people received tongues in other places in Acts what was the purpose? And would it be personal because it was not interpreted.

 

[Blain]

All of the accusations are well founded which is why you ignore them.

You claim to posses the same physical supernatural manifestation as in the New Testament but show no fruit.

Claims without fruit.

You are just as much of a charlatan as those you rail against.

and on an online forum without being in front of you physically exactly what fruit are you looking for? also ocean never claimed to have the same tongues as at pentecost they did however claim to have the gift of tongues there is a difference I went back and looked at all the posts made and they never made such a claim