Contradiction of WORDS

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,172
13,582
113
#1
I have a question for all concerning the following quote from a Campbellite that uses this chat site...

WORKS DO NOT EARN GRACE

WORKS REQUIRED to receive GRACE


Is this a contradiction of WORDS and or a play on WORDS?
Where is this principle found in scriptures?

Grace means UNMERITED FAVOR
so how can it be possible to earn or receive GRACE BASED UPON WORKS seeing how the very word means unmerited favor<--unearned favor?
To work for something means you EARNED IT!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
23,850
5,704
113
#2
seems like it opens the door to boasting, doesn't it?

but i thought this Grace was worked in a such a way as "lest any man should boast" .. ?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,172
13,582
113
#3
seems like it opens the door to boasting, doesn't it?

but i thought this Grace was worked in a such a way as "lest any man should boast" .. ?
I totally agree for sure......and it also is a direct contradiction of scripture for sure!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,611
1,879
113
#4
''A'' Campbellite? I think there are many more on this site that may be unaware of their own identity...or are 'closet' Campbellites.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,611
1,879
113
#6
I also think of the word 'gift' and then marvel at all the strings that become attached...

Romans 5:15-18 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

To boot, Paul in places not only says 'gift' but to add insult to injury he states ''FREE GIFT"...Paul, you antinomian you. hehe
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
28,390
6,792
113
64
Florida
#7
I also think of the word 'gift' and then marvel at all the strings that become attached...

Romans 5:15-18 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

To boot, Paul in places not only says 'gift' but to add insult to injury he states ''FREE GIFT"...Paul, you antinomian you. hehe
Beware of 'gifts' with strings attached.
 

JesusIsAll

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2014
5,167
94
0
#8
Just my opinion, but I believe many of them are nothing but trolls, with a few cult members thrown in. You see a lot of copy and paste work with scripture, but no understanding, one track minds, i.e., a constant effort to bicker over one theme. Forget spirituality, a normal person gets bored after awhile, at least one who isn't suffering some narcissistic or sociopathic disorder that feeds on attention of any kind. Maybe Google traits of trolls? They love religious forums, fertile ground for inflaming people.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,172
13,582
113
#9
I also think of the word 'gift' and then marvel at all the strings that become attached...

Romans 5:15-18 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

To boot, Paul in places not only says 'gift' but to add insult to injury he states ''FREE GIFT"...Paul, you antinomian you. hehe
I know and it blows my mind that somebody will try and cram down my throat that I have to (WORK) to receive grace...Something that is unmerited is impossible to work for...period! It is a free GIFT from God and based upon the WORK that Christ did and was completed in the eyes of God from the casting down of the world...and when we say this based upon the BIBLE we automatically get accused (led of the devil) of saying that saved children of God need not keep the word of God...fires me up to no end for sure!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,611
1,879
113
#10
Beware of 'gifts' with strings attached.
I don't mind it if the Gift came wrapped with strings (Christ kept the Law) but it is a problem when in order to have that Gift you Must tie those same strings around your neck,
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,172
13,582
113
#12
I don't mind it if the Gift came wrapped with strings (Christ kept the Law) but it is a problem when in order to have that Gift you Must tie those same strings around your neck,
I like this as well for sure!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,611
1,879
113
#13
I don't mind it if the Gift came wrapped with strings (Christ kept the Law) but it is a problem when in order to have that Gift you Must tie those same strings around your neck,
Whew, there, now I feel cathartic...hehe
 
Sep 26, 2014
219
3
0
#14
I have a question for all concerning the following quote from a Campbellite that uses this chat site...

WORKS DO NOT EARN GRACE

WORKS REQUIRED to receive GRACE


Is this a contradiction of WORDS and or a play on WORDS?
Where is this principle found in scriptures?

Grace means UNMERITED FAVOR
so how can it be possible to earn or receive GRACE BASED UPON WORKS seeing how the very word means unmerited favor<--unearned favor?
To work for something means you EARNED IT!
1. Works do not earn grace

Since God gives His grace freely to all mankind, nothing good we do is required for Him to give it.

2. Works required to receive grace

In order to receive His grace, we must believe in it and accept/act upon that belief.

Just because God gives grace does not make it automatically received. Makes sense.

God Bless
 

JesusIsAll

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2014
5,167
94
0
#15
I've sometimes mentioned carrying a corpse, all the Jew-lite stuff they purport to believe in. (Note most of them bicker on CC through every sabbath or feast day...) I don't know how many of you know the allusion of this verse in Paul's teachings on the law,

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

It involved a Roman punishment,

"Just as we, in the American legal system, deal with the crime of murder in terms of first, second and third degree, the Roman legal system described several levels of guilt for this offense. The above verse was referring to one of the most severe punishments of Roman law. The dead body was literally chained to the murderer -- face to face, hand to hand, toe to toe. The condemned man was sentenced to go through the remainder of his life chained to this decaying corpse. Keep in mind the acceleration of the decomposing process in that warm climate; then try to imagine how it would be with this body in front of you while eating or in attempting to talk to your wife and children. Imagine the horror as each day the stench becomes increasingly offensive, bringing alienation from family and friends, depriving you of tenderness or imtimacy with another human being. As the decaying corpse becomes rigid -- stiff -- when rigor mortis sets in, sitting down becomes virtually impossible. Sleep escapes you as death permeates every waking moment. Each day the stench grows worse and becomes increasingly more offensive, both to you and everyone around you. Therefore, you are progressively more isolated from family and friends. There is no escape from the reminder of your crime.

The murderer could not avoid breathing in the stench of this decaying body which was his constant companion. It is not difficult to understand that many times the condemned man would lose his mind if he did not first die of inhaled putrefaction."


Lovely, those commanding or proselytizing Hebrew roots and wallowing in the Torah...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,611
1,879
113
#16
1. Works do not earn grace

Since God gives His grace freely to all mankind, nothing good we do is required for Him to give it.

2. Works required to receive grace

In order to receive His grace, we must believe in it and accept/act upon that belief.

Just because God gives grace does not make it automatically received. Makes sense.

God Bless
'Sola Scriptura' Scripture please on pt. #2 especially ''in order to receive, we must act upon that belief'.
What act and how much of that act until we receive?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,172
13,582
113
#17
1. Works do not earn grace

Since God gives His grace freely to all mankind, nothing good we do is required for Him to give it.

2. Works required to receive grace

In order to receive His grace, we must believe in it and accept/act upon that belief.

Just because God gives grace does not make it automatically received. Makes sense.

God Bless
Faith is not a work...it is a spiritual GIFT and has been already dealt to every man in measure by God!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,172
13,582
113
#18
'Sola Scriptura' Scripture please on pt. #2 especially ''in order to receive, we must act upon that belief'.
What act and how much of that act until we receive?
What they fail to realize is the simple truth that FAITH is not a work, but rather a spiritual gift and faith (the ability to believe) has been dealt to every man in measure by God...For God has (past tense) dealt unto every man a measure of faith! Some choose to acknowledge...Others reject and think that they have to work for it!
 

elf3

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2014
2,713
50
0
#19
Well on the forum you are referring the comment against "by grace thru faith not by works" it was argued that faith was works. Which kinda doesn't make sense to me since in those verses it states our faith is a gift from God. Then they stated God doesn't need to have faith in himself.

It confused me a bit until I realized that's the point. They will confuse you so much that you can't even see what their argument is so you can't respond. Once you can't argue a point you don't understand "they win" so to speak.

In a way it's an ingenious way to argue a point. Confusion to the point of concede.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,172
13,582
113
#20
Well on the forum you are referring the comment against "by grace thru faith not by works" it was argued that faith was works. Which kinda doesn't make sense to me since in those verses it states our faith is a gift from God. Then they stated God doesn't need to have faith in himself.

It confused me a bit until I realized that's the point. They will confuse you so much that you can't even see what their argument is so you can't respond. Once you can't argue a point you don't understand "they win" so to speak.

In a way it's an ingenious way to argue a point. Confusion to the point of concede.
Yeah and a point to be made is...By grace through faith and that NOT of YOURSELVES....the NOT of YOURSELVES is directed at the word FAITH, as it is the FAITH of Jesus that saves us and that faith is a spiritual GIFT from God!