Contradiction?

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Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
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#1
1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And...

Matthew 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,868
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#2
1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And...

Matthew 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
The Bible says many are called, but few are chosen.

God wants all people to be saved, even though all people will not be saved, for not all people will accept and believe the salvation of God, but He still wants all people to be saved.

The Bible says that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

Not all people will be saved, but God still wants them to be saved, which He said He wants them all to come to the knowledge of the truth, but not all will come to the truth.

If they perish it is not what God wanted, but He wanted them to be saved.

Jesus gave His life for many because many will accept Him, and salvation, but not all will accept Him, and salvation.

But the truth is all people do want salvation, but the wicked do not realize that until they are at the great white throne judgment being judged by Jesus, but then it is too late for them to accept it then.

Jesus is the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, but not all will accept so it is many, and not all.

Either way not all will accept the truth, and believe on Jesus, and the salvation of God, but God wants all people to be saved, and Jesus saved many.

Not all will believe the truth although God gave salvation to the world, but many will believe the truth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
16,119
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#3
Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
Simple. Not all will obey the Gospel.

JOHN 3

19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
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#4
Simple. Not all will obey the Gospel.

JOHN 3

19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
If not all will obey, why is “all” used? Like in Timothy?
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
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#5
This also...

James 2:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And.....

Galatians 2:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

??
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#6
This also...

James 2:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And.....

Galatians 2:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

??
It’s sort of like you have justified yourself as being a Bible doubter by posting stuff like this but that has nothing to do with you being justified by faith in Christ.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,939
3,352
113
#7
This also...

James 2:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And.....

Galatians 2:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

??
James is speaking in terms of being justified before man (they see our works, not our faith)...
James 2:18 NASB
[18] But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Paul is speaking of our justification before God (faith alone).
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
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#8
It’s sort of like you have justified yourself as being a Bible doubter by posting stuff like this but that has nothing to do with you being justified by faith in Christ.

Posting stuff like what?
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
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#10
I am not sure you understand the point I am making......Paul is speaking to you, a gentile, and of course I believe a ransom for all.

In Matthews, Jesus is speaking to the lost sheep of Israel....Jesus was not speaking of all the world in this specific passage...or he would have said all. The mystery had not been revealed yet..Jesus revealed the mystery unto Paul, Paul preached it to the gentiles first.....
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
#11
James is speaking in terms of being justified before man (they see our works, not our faith)...
James 2:18 NASB
[18] But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Paul is speaking of our justification before God (faith alone).[/QUOTE

And faith without works so that no (man) may boast? This seems to be in direct contradiction (which is not possible) with “I (man) will show you my faith, by my works (boasting)

Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Thoughts?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,395
770
113
#12
1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And...

Matthew 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
Hi RD,

Have you considered the Jesus being delivered to the Gentiles mock and scourge?

Matthew 20: 17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them
Mastthew 20: 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
Matthew 20: 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,734
15,484
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#13
I am not sure you understand the point I am making......Paul is speaking to you, a gentile, and of course I believe a ransom for all.

In Matthews, Jesus is speaking to the lost sheep of Israel....Jesus was not speaking of all the world in this specific passage...or he would have said all. The mystery had not been revealed yet..Jesus revealed the mystery unto Paul, Paul preached it to the gentiles first.....
Could you please use the "Reply" feature so people know whom you are addressing? You say, of course you believe a ransom for all, but that is NOT the question I asked. Do you believe God desires all to be saved?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
2,019
448
83
#14
1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And...

Matthew 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
The way i understand it is that Jesus gave His blood for all, or everyone, but only those that choose to believe and accept the gift will be ransomed by His blood.
Many will be ransomed but not everyone will be saved even thou His blood is there for all.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,734
15,484
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#15
The way i understand it is that Jesus gave His blood for all, or everyone, but only those that choose to believe and accept the gift will be ransomed by His blood.
Many will be ransomed but not everyone will be saved even thou His blood is there for all.
Another way of saying it is, Jesus' blood is sufficient for all, but effectual only for those who believe.
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
#16
Could you please use the "Reply" feature so people know whom you are addressing? You say, of course you believe a ransom for all, but that is NOT the question I asked. Do you believe God desires all to be saved?

Most definitely
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,372
113
#17
1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And...

Matthew 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
There are no contradictions and there are numerous verses that speak to these truths......

Christ is the saviour of all men especially those that believe.

Many are called, but few chosen

God wpuld have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

For God so loved the KOSMOS <--translated world.....and then the word WHOSEVER is used.....

It seems that God has done everything possible except force belief when it comes to the salvation of mankind.....

He would save all if all would believe...

When a topic like this comes up you get the far right and far left that come out to play while ignoring the fact there is a balance to be struck right down the middle concerning predestination and election.........both sides of the coin ignorantly reject the balance that is both found and biblical between both views......
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
16,119
7,938
113
#18
If not all will obey, why is “all” used? Like in Timothy?
Again very simple.

1. ALL MAY COME AND BE SAVED

2. BUT ALL WILL NOT COME AND BE SAVED

Why? I already gave you that answer. Now go and preach the Gospel.
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
#19
Hi RD,

Have you considered the Jesus being delivered to the Gentiles mock and scourge?

Matthew 20: 17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them
Mastthew 20: 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
Matthew 20: 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Hi Fredo

Yes, but they delivered him, and said let his blood be in them.

22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.

23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.

25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
#20
Again very simple.

1. ALL MAY COME AND BE SAVED

2. BUT ALL WILL NOT COME AND BE SAVED

Why? I already gave you that answer. Now go and preach the Gospel.
Again wrong....your not even in the right time period....Paul’s mystery was not revealed until after Christ’s earthly ministry, and it was to the gentiles, with the fullness of grace