Deception: Almost Had Me Fooled

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#21
You are encouraging people to jump off cliffs?

Yet Jesus REBUKED Satan when was tempted to do the same.

Jesus said "Do not test the Lord your God"

So the Word of Faith movement is teaching folks to jump off cliffs now?
Ehhh...



The analogy was to portray how jumping off the cliff is an easy task when accompanied by someone with experience, and someone you trust (having the right tool/parachute). In like manner, God may lead us to do things that we feel are, as I said earlier, insurmountable, even impossible yet God is someone you trust and in terms of experience, God is sovereign. The enemy may try to make all of these decisions and actions seem larger, scarier, than they are, but in actuality we ought to trust God because He equips those that are His.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#22
I don't think he is encouraging people to jump off cliffs especially without a parachute.

I think that he is encouraging people to trust God's equipping and obey God even outside their comfort zones.

I think it is an excellent exhortation and I am definitely NOT WOF.
I'm glad the message was still understood by some. Thank you.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#23
This seems a bit different. Moses, being a prophet, had God speaking clearly to him from the burning bush..., sure, in that case, no prob.
Why cannot God speak clearly to you, in this day and age? Those voices, thoughts, and hunches are things you may need to discern and learn to know His voice so that you may obey His leading in edifying others. We are not speaking in the general sense, we are talking as what the apostles experienced when the Holy Spirit told them not to go to places, or to go to places. This isn't something only a select experience, but fellowship is available to all of God's children.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
1,986
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#24
Here's a few Scriptures to consider about having a PERSONAL relationship with the living Spirit of God.

Revelation 2:29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

1 Co 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 16:13-
But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Those who don't believe God speaks to them will doubt what He says to them.
 
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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,893
698
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#25
Thanks for the Scripture, Cee, I agree with you totally. We are given the Holy Spirit when we are saved, and we do need to recognize his voice and obey it!

And we do need to know the written Word, simply because it helps us decide if other voices are leading us astray, because they contradict the Word.

Which brings me to my point. This OP has strayed so far from the Bible, people either people don’t understand it, or try interpret it giving the OP the benefit of the doubt! And, there is nary a hint of Bible. He could have finished this OP by finding a Bible verse to show what he meant. But, why use the Bible when you can just make things up as you go along, and who knows the Bible, anyway?

This Word of l Faiths stuff is so totally “all about me” never “all about God!”
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
1,986
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#26
I agree we need to know when ANY voice contradicts the word of God, even our OWN thoughts, logic, and reasoning. We also must be clear on what Scripture says and what interpretation teaches us it says. We are all growing in our understanding of Scripture and He will contradict our interpretations. The prominent thing Scripture teaches us, over and over, is after we are saved loving people is how we love God. If you want a Scripture why not ask him for one? We are not enemies, but a loving family with a loving Father. We don't have to agree with one another to love one another.

But I don't agree with your statement. Word of faith is about believing what God says and promises. It's about not living in unbelief. Not allowing what the Spirit of this world says be greater than what the Spirit of God says. He is greater in us.

Thanks for the Scripture, Cee, I agree with you totally. We are given the Holy Spirit when we are saved, and we do need to recognize his voice and obey it!

And we do need to know the written Word, simply because it helps us decide if other voices are leading us astray, because they contradict the Word.

Which brings me to my point. This OP has strayed so far from the Bible, people either people don’t understand it, or try interpret it giving the OP the benefit of the doubt! And, there is nary a hint of Bible. He could have finished this OP by finding a Bible verse to show what he meant. But, why use the Bible when you can just make things up as you go along, and who knows the Bible, anyway?

This Word of l Faiths stuff is so totally “all about me” never “all about God!”
 
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Miri

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2012
7,769
525
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#27
Maybe people can give specific examples, it’s easy to talk about in theory but
hard to put into practice. I often see lots of “we should do this and do that” on CC
generally (not just this thread), but personal experience trumps theoretical words.


I have never jumped off a cliff! But I have put my trust in God when I was hesitant to do
so on many occasions.


Like when I took the decision to reduce from working 5 days to 4 days to look after my aunt.
I was worried about how it would impact on finances. The first day of my 4 day working week,
the bus driver had no change so let me ride for free on way to work, then later at night going
home, the driver had ran out of tickets so let me travel for free. Then later in the week we had
a gas refund cheque!

Then the next year it became apparent I would have to consider 3 days a week instead. I was
really worried how we would manage. But prayed about it and took the plunge (metaphorically
speaking). Just a few weeks after, the income tax rate at which you pay tax was raised, so I hardly pay
any tax now which helped to offset the reduction in pay, plus I got a sudden windfall of
around £3,000 left to me after someone died.

I knew then God would always look after me. I needn’t worry. :)


So rather than arguing about the ins and out of whether to jump off a cliff or not and
whether it’s right to hang glide or not.

Wouldn't it be nice to encourage each other with specific examples from our own lives
for a change.

Action always speaks louder then words and real life testimonies give honour to God.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
753
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#28
I see Ben's thoughts as reflective of Isaiah 50. [Isaiah 50:10] "Who is among you that fears the LORD, that obeys the voice of His servant, That walks in darkness and has no light? [I believe this answer is none, of those that fears the LORD that is, as denoted by the following command to] Let him trust in the name of the LORD and rely on his God."
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,021
258
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#29
Thanks for the Scripture, Cee, I agree with you totally. We are given the Holy Spirit when we are saved, and we do need to recognize his voice and obey it!

And we do need to know the written Word, simply because it helps us decide if other voices are leading us astray, because they contradict the Word.

Which brings me to my point. This OP has strayed so far from the Bible, people either people don’t understand it, or try interpret it giving the OP the benefit of the doubt! And, there is nary a hint of Bible. He could have finished this OP by finding a Bible verse to show what he meant. But, why use the Bible when you can just make things up as you go along, and who knows the Bible, anyway?

This Word of l Faiths stuff is so totally “all about me” never “all about God!”
For someone who can't pass up an opportunity to boast about how well they understand God's word (in comparison to others) I am surprised you, so well versed in God's word, cannot see how the OP is in line with His Word and not something that has "strayed so far from the Bible." God does equip those that are His. He does provide.

I am sure you can provide ample evidence of this premise, as others here have suggested. Instead of taking this opportunity to defame me, insult, and degrade (as you often do), maybe you'd rather uplift for once and act like a Christian? It might be a tall order, and maybe my tone is wrong, but your veiled attempts at degradation ("why use the Bible when you can just make things up as you go along") are clearly seen.

I don't understand your issue with me. Neither do I comprehend the need for you, and others to keep bombarding posts/threads with the accusation of WOF. This post, the OP, has nothing to do with the Word of Faith movement. Why are you people so obsessed with it and use these words, such accusations, as a weapon to disqualify fellow believers from sharing the truth and edifying our brothers and sisters in Christ?

...
 
Jan 25, 2018
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#30
The spirit of risk taking

Some teachers are now saying any spiritual avenue can be explored.
Astral travelling, talking to angels, using fortune telling, using omens or cards to see into
the future, speaking to the dead through a medium or prophet.

The problem with all of this is the source of authority is not Jesus or God, but other
spiritual influences which by their nature are evil by surplanting trusting God will tell
us what we need to know. It is banned and it is evil.

The analogy used by many is Jesus is a bridge from man to God. There is no risk
involved in God, the risk is retaliation, persecution and evil from men who hate the
way of life and God. This is the true analogy of trusting Jesus and walking in His
ways. There is no risk in His ways, there is only blessing and a good foundation,
healing and becoming real and whole.

No wonder those who want power and influence desire things of the spirit world
to justify false truths, rather than follow Jesus that does not give them a
platform or popularity.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
83
#31
It still comes down to the two voices in the beginning of the story: which one is from God and which one is from Satan?

****

Perhaps God has told you that your life will be a "soft landing". However, God has always been the one to warn me that it might be rough but not to give up hope because He would be right beside me the whole way.....so if it was really God who asked me to jump...it would be tandem.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#32
Ehhh...



The analogy was to portray how jumping off the cliff is an easy task when accompanied by someone with experience, and someone you trust (having the right tool/parachute). In like manner, God may lead us to do things that we feel are, as I said earlier, insurmountable, even impossible yet God is someone you trust and in terms of experience, God is sovereign. The enemy may try to make all of these decisions and actions seem larger, scarier, than they are, but in actuality we ought to trust God because He equips those that are His.
Yeah, but the part you missed was "you will land softly." Nope. No guarantee of that... in parachuting or with the Lord.

Hubby's coworker went parachuting with his family one day. Four family members jumped out of the plane. Three landed safely. His sister hit a barn -- over and over and over again. She spent many months in the hospital. Three members of that family never went parachuting again. The sister did.

Get this! God does not promise soft landing! So jump off a cliff if you want, but don't do it to prove yourself. Don't do it to prove the parachute called faith. Don't do it to prove the theory of gravity. If God has us jump off a cliff, it isn't even to prove him.

I've gone off the cliff more than once in my life. (God pushed me. I don't willingly jump. lol) I'm still alive. Hubby is still alive, but I never got the soft landing.

And, this really was about WoF anyway. You're promoting faith as the equipment that will give you a soft landing.

Something Spurgeon said in this morning's devotional about trusting in self.

"Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."
1 Corinthians 10:12

It is a curious fact, that there is such a thing as being proud of grace. A man says, "I have great faith, I shall not fall; poor little faith may, but I never shall." "I have fervent love," says another, "I can stand, there is no danger of my going astray." He who boasts of grace has little grace to boast of. Some who do this imagine that their graces can keep them, knowing not that the stream must flow constantly from the fountain head, or else the brook will soon be dry. If a continuous stream of oil comes not to the lamp, though it burn brightly today, it will smoke to-morrow, and noxious will be its scent. Take heed that thou gloriest not in thy graces, but let all thy glorying and confidence be in Christ and his strength, for only so canst thou be kept from falling. Be much more in prayer. Spend longer time in holy adoration. Read the Scriptures more earnestly and constantly. Watch your lives more carefully. Live nearer to God. Take the best examples for your pattern. Let your conversation be redolent of heaven. Let your hearts be perfumed with affection for men's souls. So live that men may take knowledge of you that you have been with Jesus, and have learned of him; and when that happy day shall come, when he whom you love shall say, "Come up higher," may it be your happiness to hear him say, "Thou hast fought a good fight, thou hast finished thy course, and henceforth there is laid up for thee a crown of righteousness which fadeth not away." On, Christian, with care and caution! On, with holy fear and trembling! On, with faith and confidence in Jesus alone, and let your constant petition be, "Uphold me according to thy word." He is able, and he alone, "To keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy."
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#33
I agree we need to know when ANY voice contradicts the word of God, even our OWN thoughts, logic, and reasoning. We also must be clear on what Scripture says and what interpretation teaches us it says. We are all growing in our understanding of Scripture and He will contradict our interpretations. The prominent thing Scripture teaches us, over and over, is after we are saved loving people is how we love God. If you want a Scripture why not ask him for one? We are not enemies, but a loving family with a loving Father. We don't have to agree with one another to love one another.

But I don't agree with your statement. Word of faith is about believing what God says and promises. It's about not living in unbelief. Not allowing what the Spirit of this world says be greater than what the Spirit of God says. He is greater in us.
WoF teaches, "I have great faith, I shall not fall; poor little faith may, but I never shall."
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#34
It still comes down to the two voices in the beginning of the story: which one is from God and which one is from Satan?

****

Perhaps God has told you that your life will be a "soft landing". However, God has always been the one to warn me that it might be rough but not to give up hope because He would be right beside me the whole way.....so if it was really God who asked me to jump...it would be tandem.
I see no scriptural evidence for "soft landing." I see lots and lots and lots of scriptural evidence for, "Ouch! This is going to hurt. Possibly even kill me."
 
Mar 10, 2013
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#35
I think it was an analogy.... could be wrong.

We should step out it faith... God has us.
I love these words. I could be wrong. AMEN. WE CAN ALL ALWAYS BE WRONG.

I want to write to the concept of deception. When we do not practice what God has told us to practice, we deceive ourselves.
If the scripture is to be believed, and i am a witness that it should be believed as it is the truth and Gods pure word, then we also have an enemy roaming around the earth looking for those he can devour.

Some of you know my mantra, God my God, you are I am who I am and I am yours. LET ME REVEAL OUR ENEMIES DECEPtIONS and just how you deceive yourselves believing SATANS LIES.

I spent years saying, I am lonely. I am scared. I am hurting. I am desperate. I am destitute. I claimed all sorts of evil because this is how i felt. EMOTION IS SPIRIT. THOSE ARE STATEMENTS. We tell our friends and anyone who will hear us all about our heartaches. Now finish with that. THOSE ARE THE ENEMIES LIES. NO LONGER SPEAK THEM.

Instead rather, speak the truth that God has commanded you. I am redeemed. I am the righteous of God. I am a son/daughter of the living God who is my God. Darkness has no hold over me. Fear has no hold over me. I am a child of light, the one true light that is our God. Where does darkness go when the light is shined on it? AWAY. AWAY AWAY AWAY AWAY. The more ears that hear you speaking these truths the more power you will feel in your spirit and the more you will feel just as God created you to feel and wants us all to feel. If you are in a church full of fellow servants worshiping God everyone should be repeating these truths. Your spirit will leave you into their ears and enter them. Their spirits will leave their bodies through their vocal cords and tongue and breath, and enter you. Light will burn brightly and darkness will be gone. Praise glory and honor always be to our God and FAther who is I AM WHO I AM. I am HIS, praise GOD.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,015
413
83
#36
Why cannot God speak clearly to you, in this day and age? Those voices, thoughts, and hunches are things you may need to discern and learn to know His voice so that you may obey His leading in edifying others. We are not speaking in the general sense, we are talking as what the apostles experienced when the Holy Spirit told them not to go to places, or to go to places. This isn't something only a select experience, but fellowship is available to all of God's children.
Let's see. God speaks to you unmistakeably as He spoke to the apostles under inspiration. Why then not write Scripture of your own since you receive a sure word from God directly?
Scripture and His guiding providence is sufficient, thx
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,015
413
83
#37
Here's a few Scriptures to consider about having a PERSONAL relationship with the living Spirit of God.

Revelation 2:29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

1 Co 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 16:13-
But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Those who don't believe God speaks to them will doubt what He says to them.
Revelation 2:29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
...

John was told to WRITE down those things, thus they were read to the Churches, not a direct 'spiritual' encounter.

1 Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

In context 1Cor 1 &2 are speaking of the Gospel which is foolishness to the natural man.


John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Jesus was speaking to the apostles (all that I said to you). If it applied to us we wouldn't need the NT as the Holy Spirit supposedly will teach us ALL things.

John 16:13- But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Again, to the Apostles, as they reveal IN THEIR WRITINGS THINGS TO COME.

Those who don't believe God speaks to them will doubt what He says to them.

I'm glad God speaks to us infallibly through His Word to protect us from bad teaching such as yours.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
2,945
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Florida
#38
I would be extremely wary of external suggestions and impressions on our minds...and it is going to get worse

many have been deceived by these things...does not mean they are not sincere...but sincerity does not guard against deception

Truth is not a series of impressions or emotions. in many cases, those of us who keep pointing this out, are speaking into the wind and we are called religious and poo poohed

yes...there is a spiritual realm...and you are not a part of it and do not understand the darkness masquerading as light

you do not know what you think you know and yet you keep assuring yourselves and anyone you can get to listen, how glorious and wonderful it all is and how spiritual it all is and none of what you practice is scripture

what is your measurement of truth? is it the word of God? is it how you feel? is it an experience?

only one thing is the truth we measure against and that is God's word.

it is not out of date...it is not boring..it does not need new interpretations and it is the only truth ... if you don't think so, then understand that you believe anything goes and we have no measurement of truth
 

Deade

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2017
2,604
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#39
I would be extremely wary of external suggestions and impressions on our minds...and it is going to get worse

many have been deceived by these things...does not mean they are not sincere...but sincerity does not guard against deception

Truth is not a series of impressions or emotions. in many cases, those of us who keep pointing this out, are speaking into the wind and we are called religious and poo poohed

yes...there is a spiritual realm...and you are not a part of it and do not understand the darkness masquerading as light

you do not know what you think you know and yet you keep assuring yourselves and anyone you can get to listen, how glorious and wonderful it all is and how spiritual it all is and none of what you practice is scripture

what is your measurement of truth? is it the word of God? is it how you feel? is it an experience?

only one thing is the truth we measure against and that is God's word.

it is not out of date...it is not boring..it does not need new interpretations and it is the only truth ... if you don't think so, then understand that you believe anything goes and we have no measurement of truth

So you are saying God can't give explicit instructions to anyone in this day and age. If I believed that, I would never had made it to the mission field. God can do anything He wants: in any dispensation. If God talks to you only through His word, that is fine. Just don't insist that is the only way He works. You could be wrong.
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7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
2,945
230
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Florida
#40

So you are saying God can't give explicit instructions to anyone in this day and age. If I believed that, I would never had made it to the mission field. God can do anything He wants: in any dispensation. If God talks to you only through His word, that is fine. Just don't insist that is the only way He works. You could be wrong.
View attachment 179471

I said none of what you are saying that I said

perhaps reread what I wrote to help clairify my position

and you might also try asking questions instead of trying to falsely accuse

but I've run across the way you post before, so no surprises here

on that note, what is YOUR measurement of truth? a whisper in your ear? or a vision or dream?

or is the plumb line of truth the Bible?

I never said God only speaks one way. That seems to be your take on it because you are defending a personal experience or perhaps a thought

you cannot guide me by your experiences and vice versa...THEREFORE the only truth we share is what is in the word and anything that deviates from that truth is not from God