Did God die on the cross.
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I agree. I think the problem is an issue of transference. Because we are ruled by death (physical or otherwise) we apply that to God.
I go back to what I said earlier. God is also eternal but when he took off His Glory (laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself), he submitted to time (to the things he created) and walked the earth for a set time. YET, at the same time He did not lose his eternal nature when he condescended.
The same is true of death. It is by His Word that it was that created. His Word stooped down and submitted to death though he did not lose his life giving nature.
Let me put it another way.
God cannot pass from eternal existence and I don't believe anyone is saying that! God can however, experience all that he created. Including the death that he has created for mankind. On a side note do we truly pass from existence when we die?
I don't believe that anyone is saying that God passed from eternal existence.
I go back to what I said earlier. God is also eternal but when he took off His Glory (laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself), he submitted to time (to the things he created) and walked the earth for a set time. YET, at the same time He did not lose his eternal nature when he condescended.
The same is true of death. It is by His Word that it was that created. His Word stooped down and submitted to death though he did not lose his life giving nature.
Let me put it another way.
God cannot pass from eternal existence and I don't believe anyone is saying that! God can however, experience all that he created. Including the death that he has created for mankind. On a side note do we truly pass from existence when we die?
I don't believe that anyone is saying that God passed from eternal existence.
D
Ah this thing is still around? I thought Jesus already gave us the answer to this..
Rev 1:17-18
And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last." (Note the First and the Last is Jehovah, Isaiah 44:6)
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (The First and the Last- [Jehovah], just said He was dead)
I don't see any Bible verses on the contrary saying God can not die. Yet there are verses which say God has died.
So we can either hold man-made non-biblical doctrines or we can go to the Word of God.
Which will you believe?
Rev 1:17-18
And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last." (Note the First and the Last is Jehovah, Isaiah 44:6)
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (The First and the Last- [Jehovah], just said He was dead)
I don't see any Bible verses on the contrary saying God can not die. Yet there are verses which say God has died.
So we can either hold man-made non-biblical doctrines or we can go to the Word of God.
Which will you believe?
T
Why do you think God won't die if He wanted or needed to?
Do you think it goes against His nature? Why?
I believe when God died then He was alive at the same time, so He was still eternal. Do you think it's contradictory? God being 1 and 3 at the same time seems also contradictory, but we know it's not impossible for God.
Do you think He didn't need to die? Do you think that Him being tortured was enough to pay for our sins?
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one. So when we say the Son died and the Father did not die, then it is the same as to say God died and God didn't die.
Do you think it goes against His nature? Why?
I believe when God died then He was alive at the same time, so He was still eternal. Do you think it's contradictory? God being 1 and 3 at the same time seems also contradictory, but we know it's not impossible for God.
Do you think He didn't need to die? Do you think that Him being tortured was enough to pay for our sins?
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one. So when we say the Son died and the Father did not die, then it is the same as to say God died and God didn't die.
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The body of Christ His flesh was killed on the cross, not His eternal Spirit which God is.
Hebrews 10
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Hebrews 10
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
P
Yes, God died on the cross, since Jesus is God. But as someone has pointed out, the Father and the Holy Spirit didn't die on the cross, and they are still "God" as well. As such we must answer "yes" to this question, although the actual formulation may cause the need to make the other statements about the Father and the Holy Spirit - just to make sure that people don't misunderstand.
J
Watchman thank you for a great thread! By in large it was a rigorous respectfuly debate on the nature of God and how it can or cannot be manifest. Reading it start to finish in one setting is a bit challenging and I will have to go back over some of the finer points made by the lot of participants. Accepting the Gospel message is fundemental to our identity as Christians--the meat and potatoes of our faith. Sometimes it is enriching to contemplate God's character in a deeper way. It helps us know Him better. It anchors us and atunes us better to the prodings of the Holy Spirit. Did God die on the cross? It touches on God's nature and the cost of salvation the value of grace. I am going to think on this for quite some time and sift the Word. Although the idea that Jesus is not God and he is but one of many sons is not something I am tempted to entertain I thought you handles the interjection in your thread well. Things like this makebed rest recovering from reconstructive surgery more than just tolerable. God bless
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Ok let me say.... God is One! Why would One pray to One? Pray to yourself? NO! What did He pray for then? He is God! Why pray to Father if you are Son, and One! This is confusing! That is why muslims think we are crazy... 1+1+1=1. but 1x1x1=1. But do not math the Word so let us use the Word to teach us!
Let us read the prayer He prayed to Himself! Or did He? Emagine a Bible without John 17! How would we know that it is the Father's will to UNITE us in Christ Jesus, while we are here on earth if John 17 was not in the Word? And remember this was not the only time Jesus went into isolation to pray to the Father. So go on read the whole of John 17 now! And all the other prayers was also for US!
Remember one thing. John 10:30 Jesus and His Father are ONE! Ok God cannot die! So he had to occupy something that can! He generated a baby in a virgin, to claim "unhuman" existance. But the Baby would need a soul, and did get one, as the soul is in the blood, and when the Spirit in the Baby was added, He was made in the image of God. Wow! Like Adam! But again something made Him "not human", that was the Holy Spirit! Jesus was born of God, because Jesus recieved a Spirit that cannot sin. God is the Holy Spirit! God was and is and always will be Spirit!
This flesh and soul called Jesus Christ, will be under the Personal command of God Himself! That is why Jesus never sinned! He was moved by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is what makes Jesus the Man, and God the Spirit ONE! And it is the Same Spirit that makes us One with eachother and God.
John 17, read it deep and slow! miss nothing it is Very GOOD!
Let us read the prayer He prayed to Himself! Or did He? Emagine a Bible without John 17! How would we know that it is the Father's will to UNITE us in Christ Jesus, while we are here on earth if John 17 was not in the Word? And remember this was not the only time Jesus went into isolation to pray to the Father. So go on read the whole of John 17 now! And all the other prayers was also for US!
Remember one thing. John 10:30 Jesus and His Father are ONE! Ok God cannot die! So he had to occupy something that can! He generated a baby in a virgin, to claim "unhuman" existance. But the Baby would need a soul, and did get one, as the soul is in the blood, and when the Spirit in the Baby was added, He was made in the image of God. Wow! Like Adam! But again something made Him "not human", that was the Holy Spirit! Jesus was born of God, because Jesus recieved a Spirit that cannot sin. God is the Holy Spirit! God was and is and always will be Spirit!
This flesh and soul called Jesus Christ, will be under the Personal command of God Himself! That is why Jesus never sinned! He was moved by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is what makes Jesus the Man, and God the Spirit ONE! And it is the Same Spirit that makes us One with eachother and God.
John 17, read it deep and slow! miss nothing it is Very GOOD!
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