Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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(Eze 36:27 KJV) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Without coercion!

"To walk therein"

Lovely phrase isn't it? :)
Which part of this says you get to delete statutes or commandments, or ignore judgements, and still pretend you're keeping the law?

Notice He doesn't say 'cause you to walk in my statutes without keeping my commandments and not obeying my judgements'

One law, written in jots and titles, comprised of commandments, statutes, ordinances and judgements.
The entire thing was written on stone at Ebal and the blessing and the curses pronounced.

Joshua 8:30-32
Then Joshua built on Mount Ebal an altar to the LORD, the God of Israel, as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded the Israelites. He built it according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses—an altar of uncut stones, on which no iron tool had been used. On it they offered to the LORD burnt offerings and sacrificed fellowship offerings. There, in the presence of the Israelites, Joshua wrote on stones a copy of the law of Moses.


The book of THE LAW - not the books of the various laws, some optional some not, some temporary some not, some just for show, some for realz.

Not one jot or tittle left out.

If anyone wants to be under the law let them not be a hypocrite.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Grandpa said that he is no longer under the law that's why I asked him that question because so many claim to no longer be under the law when they obviously are not Jews.
Well thanks for explaining that Post Human. I was just making the point that it doesn't mean we shouldn't be lawless that's all.

This is His commandment: that we love one another.

Love keeps the Truth. If i let you go on in false doctrine, i hate you.
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
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Which part of this says you get to delete statutes or commandments, or ignore judgements, and still pretend you're keeping the law?

Notice He doesn't say 'cause you to walk in my statutes without keeping my commandments and not obeying my judgements'

One law, written in jots and titles, comprised of commandments, statutes, ordinances and judgements.
The entire thing was written on stone at Ebal and the blessing and the curses pronounced.

Joshua 8:30-32
Then Joshua built on Mount Ebal an altar to the LORD, the God of Israel, as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded the Israelites. He built it according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses—an altar of uncut stones, on which no iron tool had been used. On it they offered to the LORD burnt offerings and sacrificed fellowship offerings. There, in the presence of the Israelites, Joshua wrote on stones a copy of the law of Moses.


The book of THE LAW - not the books of the various laws, some optional some not, some temporary some not, some just for show, some for realz.

Not one jot or tittle left out.

If anyone wants to be under the law let them not be a hypocrite.
So are you actually saying that Christians should sacrifice animals? Or am I reading what you wrote wrongly (this thread has got my eyes crossed a bit....)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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So are you actually saying that Christians should sacrifice animals? Or am I reading what you wrote wrongly (this thread has got my eyes crossed a bit....)
No.

What I understand from scripture is that you are either under the law or you are not, it is one law, and you either keep every single bit of it or you are guilty of all of it. There isn't any 'partially under the law'
And my understanding of the gospel as scripture explains it is that the believer by being identified with Christ is dead as far as the law is concerned and therefore liable to none of it, and also therefore not under its condemnation.

A lot of people in this thread have the idea that unless you are under the law you hate righteousness and love evil and are completely lawless. That's not what scripture says either.
I am not under the law, but I am under Christ, and His command is to love one another as He loved me - so if I walk by faith in love I walk in righteousness, and I walk with morality, and goodness, even without being under law to do those things. Despite whatever false accusations others may make, you're not embracing evil or lawlessness to accept that in Christ you are not under Moses, and it doesn't make the law meaningless or void, and it doesn't make the law 'abolished' - it simply does not preside over or have any power over the dead, and we have died to it in order to belong to God.

This is good news! It is salvation from death and condemnation of hell! It is release from fear and the embrace of hope and trust in Christ!

I get so tired of it being maligned as tho it's 'an excuse to sin' - it is the opposite, it is freedom from from the power of sin, and life in the spirit.
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
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Well thanks for explaining that Post Human. I was just making the point that it doesn't mean we shouldn't be lawless that's all.
This is His commandment: that we love one another.

Love keeps the Truth. If i let you go on in false doctrine, i hate you.



Where do you think I have false doctrine? I think I must have posted about 30 times Jesus told us to love one another. Do I not speak the truth?


No man can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Ghost. (1 Cor 12.3)

Jesus called Him the Spirit of truth (John 14:17).


Jesus said love your enemy even pray for him. (not hate). I am not even your enemy so you would hate me without cause?


But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. (Matthew 5.54)


I am usually quoting Jesus but in the words of Bob Dylan

“Everyone talks about Love but what about forgiveness?” Right on Bob.
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
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No.

What I understand from scripture is that you are either under the law or you are not, it is one law, and you either keep every single bit of it or you are guilty of all of it. There isn't any 'partially under the law'
And my understanding of the gospel as scripture explains it is that the believer by being identified with Christ is dead as far as the law is concerned and therefore liable to none of it, and also therefore not under its condemnation.

A lot of people in this thread have the idea that unless you are under the law you hate righteousness and love evil and are completely lawless. That's not what scripture says either.
I am not under the law, but I am under Christ, and His command is to love one another as He loved me - so if I walk by faith in love I walk in righteousness, and I walk with morality, and goodness, even without being under law to do those things. Despite whatever false accusations others may make, you're not embracing evil or lawlessness to accept that in Christ you are not under Moses, and it doesn't make the law meaningless or void, and it doesn't make the law 'abolished' - it simply does not preside over or have any power over the dead, and we have died to it in order to belong to God.

This is good news! It is salvation from death and condemnation of hell! It is release from fear and the embrace of hope and trust in Christ!

I get so tired of it being maligned as tho it's 'an excuse to sin' - it is the opposite, it is freedom from from the power of sin, and life in the spirit.
But Post Human. I agree with every single word you have just said all of the above. There is not one bit I do not agree with (nada/ziltch/nothing). Can two walk together unless they agree? I think we agree! Thanks for your patience. I am sure your lovely.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Where do you think I have false doctrine? I think I must have posted about 30 times Jesus told us to love one another. Do I not speak the truth?

The only thing I have disagreed about is whether the law is broken into 'removed parts' and 'not removed parts'
I was very direct with you about it because I thought you would take it to heart if I was, and might not if I didn't. Plus, you know, hundreds of pages of this having already gone on, and scores of similar threads over the years I've been on the website... Guess I got baggage.

I haven't had time to keep up with everything in the thread, tho.

And honestly, what I've said, I meant for good. Its about right doctrine ;)
 
May 1, 2019
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So are you actually saying that Christians should sacrifice animals? Or am I reading what you wrote wrongly (this thread has got my eyes crossed a bit....)

Hey HeyJude,

Whether unintentional or intentional there is a bit of "gaslighting: that goes on here.

SG :)
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
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The only thing I have disagreed about is whether the law is broken into 'removed parts' and 'not removed parts'
I was very direct with you about it because I thought you would take it to heart if I was, and might not if I didn't. Plus, you know, hundreds of pages of this having already gone on, and scores of similar threads over the years I've been on the website... Guess I got baggage.

I haven't had time to keep up with everything in the thread, tho.

And honestly, what I've said, I meant for good. Its about right doctrine ;)
Oh my goodness, of course, I sometimes forget you guys must have heard all this loads of times. Sorry about that. No I think we agree! And we all got baggage friend don't worry about it. Mine needs replacing actually but no holidays planned soon!
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
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Hey HeyJude,

Whether unintentional or intentional there is a bit of "gaslighting: that goes on here.

SG :)
Hi again SG.

I do not know what gaslighting is. Shall I look it up? Sorry to sound dum dum. What's that then? I am English and from London so not heard of that.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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I notice everyone who is teaching against teaching has already been taught.

So tell, How do you bring a soul to the LORD, if you can not teach that God has a right or righteous way and a wrong way? How can you ever know the Lord without being taught those things?

Isaiah 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil
HOW DOES ANYONE LEARN THESE WAYS OF GOD WITHOUT ANY OF GODS LAWS BEING TAUGHT?

Isaiah 33:16 He shall dwell on high his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isaiah 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.
Isaiah 33:18 Thine heart shall meditate terror. Where is the scribe? where is the receiver? where is he that counted the towers?
Isaiah 33:19 Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.
Isaiah 33:20 Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.
Isaiah 33:21 But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.
Isaiah 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king he will save us.

Everyone does realize, don't they, If we were to get rid of the words from the Law Giver, we would have no words at all.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Hi again SG.

I do not know what gaslighting is. Shall I look it up? Sorry to sound dum dum. What's that then? I am English and from London so not heard of that.
I had to. Welcome Hey J
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
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I had to. Welcome Hey J

Hey DeighAnn. (That sounds like a song too...). I have never been called Hey J before but I like it! I like the lyrics of Hey Jude for special reasons or maybe I like to take a sad song, and make it better. In fact I could speak in lyrics all day, especially the Beatles lyrics which seem to be written on my heart with a lot of other things. Nice to meet you anyhow and "Love Love me Do "
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
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Hey DeighAnn. (That sounds like a song too...). I have never been called Hey J before but I like it! I like the lyrics of Hey Jude for special reasons or maybe I like to take a sad song, and make it better. In fact I could speak in lyrics all day, especially the Beatles lyrics which seem to be written on my heart with a lot of other things. Nice to meet you anyhow and "Love Love me Do "
Hey J, Yes, I liked it from the minute I said it to, Do you find yourself giving new words to songs because you love the tune but the words don't fit the life you are leading? I would love to get some of my favorite songs "resung" but with my words. Sounds like it could be a great album.
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
277
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Oh no I would never do that. I know too many of the artists of the songs I like although some of them getting on now. Most of the songs I like are the old stuff. Don't like new music much and I have absolutely no idea who people are these days so bit out of touch on that. Lyrics my thing but no they seem to fit the songs as I am in harmony with the vibe of what the artist is trying to get across. I am from London and its not that a big a place in certain parts....wouldn't want to upset anyone now would I? It would be like re-writing Johnny Cash. Why not write your own songs?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Well it sure looks like you can draw conclusions. Its just kind of weird that they are always working at the law.

Matthew 5:18-19
18 For, omein, truly I say to you, until Shomayim and haaretz pass away, not one yod, not one tag (ornamental flourish), will pass from the Torah until everything is accomplished.


19 Therefore, whoever annuls one of the least of these mitzvot (divine commandments given by Hashem to Moshe Rebbenu) and so teaches Bnei Adam, shall be called katon (least) in the Malchut HaShomayim; but whoever practices and teaches them, this one will be called gadol (great) in the Malchut HaShomayim.


Would you say that ordinances and judgements are part of Torah???
I don't think you're getting this, grandpa. It's a simple picture.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Who did not come to destroy the law?


Colossians 2:12-14
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Who's the HE that blotted out the ordinances?


Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Who's the HE that changed the law?

----

- Christ did not come to abolish the law (Matthew).

- Christ blotted out the ordinances (colossians).

- Christ changed the law (Hebrews).


You see what scripture says but you keep trying to accuse me of saying it because you can't accuse the Messiah.

Your issue is with Christ, not me.
 
Aug 17, 2019
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The whole world is under the law until they come to Christ.

When they come to Christ then they are delivered from the law.


I guess there is no way to know that until you try to be Perfect at your work at the 10 commandments as the Lord Commands in Matthew 5.
Maybe you can show me a scripture to prove your point that;

"The whole world is under the law until they come to Christ."

Or deny the ff: truths;

Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. Ephesians 2:11-12

the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5

Here's what you should consider.

I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Romans 11:13-22

I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 1 Corinthians 4:3-7
 
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we 'both' have enjoyed the conversations between PH and HJ,
because there was such a 'good-learning-Attitude' between 'both posters' -

for us, the 'first' thing that we look for in here between communicators
that we find are interesting and that we can learn from are those that
communicate with a humble spirit that share and teach, but are ALSO
WILLING to HEAR and accept others 'learning experiences', and that
can perceive/discern a sincere HEART in them...

we have learned the hard-way, that coming together in 'unity/agreement',
is a very long journey - Marriage in Christ has taught us that!...
:):)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I am not sure exactly what you are stating here... so clarify.... do you believe that the religion as practiced today by the Jews is defunct? .... as in no longer in effect?
Yes.

God instituted a New Covenant and it was offered to those practicing Judaism first, because their religion was already defunct.