Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
Now it seems like you are doing the same as the other ones who say that Christ = Law.

Is that what you are proposing as well?
You must of misunderstood. Here is the last post in regards to this
The word in verse 8 and Christ in verses 7 and 6 are being used synonymously Romans 10. The word equals Christ because it is of and through Christ.

Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is, (In other words) what was just stated Christ, the word in the heart and mouth is the word of faith in which we preach.

What is the word of Faith in which we preach? Christ, through which the word is in the heart and mouth.

What is even more interesting is Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made another connection as they compared the two.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

They would have noticed the word, the commandment and statutes written in the book of the Law are the same word mentioned in Romans in which and through Christ has been placed in the heart and mouth.

What is even more Interesting is the prophecy in Deut 30:10-14 is being spoken in the presence tense. So the Gift of Christ in the Heart, through which His word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law are in the heart and mouth was available at the beginning of Moses Ministry if not before.

Since Israel refused the gift. God through Jeremiah repeated it in other words as the New Covenant.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)


We are speaking about Christ. Through Whom the Law; the word, His commandments went from tables of stone and parchment to fleshly tables of the heart. True Faith, Christ in you the hope of glory. Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is the word of Faith in which we preach. And this faith, this word of Faith has been available since the time of Moses and before.


Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed From (out of) faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by (out of) faith.


Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest (shining) in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made this connection as they compared the two.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (Through Christ which his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

Then, if not before they would of made a connection between the prophecy in Deut, to the one in Jeremiah, the New Covenant. For they are synonymous.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law (the word, through Christ) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

A New Ministration ....written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(2Co 3:3-6 KJV)

The issue is trying to obey GOD from the letter. The New ministration is obedience from the heart through Christ.
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For Christ (through which the word, the law, His commandments are placed in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (on tables of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom 1:5; 10:4)

For it is GOD that works in us both to will do HIS good pleasure. For in Him we live, and move, and have our being.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(Heb 8:10-11 KJV)
 
May 1, 2019
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I see what you are saying, and I respect it. sites like this are a magnet to cults, and over the years , there have been plenty.

so, when one seems to be talking about the Law at lot, It is easy assume it just another one.
so, we can have peace.

but, I would caution you to be 110% sure trust Christ 100% for salvation, there is no other way into the Kingdom.

I am pleased we have removed the confusion from between us, and Yes brother your admonition is good and is heard. Please, take the time to look for the same heart in others on here that you may have had words with. Peace.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Interesting! When you live close to the land you begin to recognize the absolute rite and place that animals serve to the overall function/order of life. You also begin to respect the purpose they serve and dedication they have to it (instinct). When one is missing you feel loss and the upset in the balance/order. Everything from what to do with extra apples, compost etc to who will keep the coyotes away, the hawks from attacking the chickens, who will keep the bugs; termites ticks everyting under control! Where the milk and eggs come from. So to sacrifice one is to upset the natural order that is maintained by their dedication to their created purpose! On top of all that is that the act of sacrifice requires the offending your own respect for that animals blind dedication to its purpose all because of your sin. Most livestock animals maintain perfect compliance to their purpose and we men who are estimated to be "higher" on the scale of animals regularly behave in conflict with our created purpose. So it's not just the sacrifice of something you might sell or eat, but the sacrifice of an innocent neighbor.

Something to be said concerning:
Deuteronomy 5
32 Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
33 Ye shall walk in all the ways which the Lord your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.

This analogy was also described by someone, Post Human, I think, as riding a bus that goes from the left side (spirit), into "the ditch", or (and) the right side (flesh), into "the ditch." Whichever "side?" A "ditch?" Is still a "ditch."
Numbers 20
17 Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's high way, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders.

Psalm 23
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

This "Fearing of No Evil?" Is not any indication at all, that one should frolic along without a care in the world. Becoming oblivious (blinded) to the "subtle nuances" of "death" lurking on either side of the believer's "path." When each side proclaims peaceful passagings. Although, the "peace" being proclaimed? Is actually? A "PIECE"FUL passing through!"

GRANTED, that "love" does cover a multitude of "ditch riding." Whichever side, or both sides of the ditch one has "spread" oneself in one's attempt at justifying one's passaging/s, in this manner. (aka "law of love")

Trouble is? Love only goes SO far, without the REST of the "Fruit of the Spirit", (notice...NOT "law of love"), in "CLOSE abidence!"
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: One MUST allow the Lord of the Harvest in the accomplishing His work, and not be, nor become oblivious!
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Elstwise?
Isaiah 28
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:










 
May 1, 2019
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Something to be said concerning:
Deuteronomy 5
32 Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
33 Ye shall walk in all the ways which the Lord your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.

This analogy was also described by someone, Post Human, I think, as riding a bus that goes from the left side (spirit), into "the ditch", or (and) the right side (flesh), into "the ditch." Whichever "side?" A "ditch?" Is still a "ditch."
Numbers 20
17 Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's high way, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders.

Psalm 23
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

This "Fearing of No Evil?" Is not any indication at all, that one should frolic along without a care in the world. Becoming oblivious (blinded) to the "subtle nuances" of "death" lurking on either side of the believer's "path." When each side proclaims peaceful passagings. Although, the "peace" being proclaimed? Is actually? A "PIECE"FUL passing through!"

GRANTED, that "love" does cover a multitude of "ditch riding." Whichever side, or both sides of the ditch one has "spread" oneself in one's attempt at justifying one's passaging/s, in this manner. (aka "law of love")

Trouble is? Love only goes SO far, without the REST of the "Fruit of the Spirit", (notice...NOT "law of love"), in "CLOSE abidence!"
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: One MUST allow the Lord of the Harvest in the accomplishing His work, and not be, nor become oblivious!
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Elstwise?
Isaiah 28
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

It is all a serious matter indeed! I appreciate the position that many take to insure we are not proposing that obedience to the law prior to salvation through the unmerited justification given by the Grace of God through Jesus is how we earn salvation
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Something to be said concerning:
Deuteronomy 5
32 Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
33 Ye shall walk in all the ways which the Lord your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.

This analogy was also described by someone, Post Human, I think, as riding a bus that goes from the left side (spirit), into "the ditch", or (and) the right side (flesh), into "the ditch." Whichever "side?" A "ditch?" Is still a "ditch."
Numbers 20
17 Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's high way, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders.

Psalm 23
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

This "Fearing of No Evil?" Is not any indication at all, that one should frolic along without a care in the world. Becoming oblivious (blinded) to the "subtle nuances" of "death" lurking on either side of the believer's "path." When each side proclaims peaceful passagings. Although, the "peace" being proclaimed? Is actually? A "PIECE"FUL passing through!"

GRANTED, that "love" does cover a multitude of "ditch riding." Whichever side, or both sides of the ditch one has "spread" oneself in one's attempt at justifying one's passaging/s, in this manner. (aka "law of love")

Trouble is? Love only goes SO far, without the REST of the "Fruit of the Spirit", (notice...NOT "law of love"), in "CLOSE abidence!"
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: One MUST allow the Lord of the Harvest in the accomplishing His work, and not be, nor become oblivious!
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Elstwise?
Isaiah 28
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Somehow was cut off from finishing my post....Here's the rest

To clarify though that our walk beyond that point guided by the Holy Spirit is the narrow path that leadeth to Life! This path is where the Holy Spirit changes us "precept upon precept, line upon line" is a good way to frame it! As we continue to keep the old man on the cross and allow the New Creation to gain full dominion we become "Christ Like" We take on the Righteousness of Christ and the byproduct is a new understanding through the Spirit of Gods Word/Scripture/Law!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,566
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Let's speculate for a minute; Which of the thirteen tribes of Jacob were still under covenant with God when Jesus walked the earth?

Be specific:

I will wait for your reply before proceeding.
exactly when the new covenant was initiated is a really interesting question that i don't feel qualified to answer - the most common view i've heard is the moment He died, which is usually expressed in an argument over the thief on the cross beside Him, centering around whether this man died under the new or the old covenant, in an attempt to defend baptismal regeneration or some other related point. but i think, Christ forgave sin without blood sacrifice while He was walking with us, which is 'non-Sinai-covenant' kind of thing to do -- although David's sin was "removed" without any atonement by the Law, too. so it's complicated. but it's tangential --

i don't see how any of the tribes were exempted from the covenant while the rest were still bound by it. when it was made it was with all of them, not some, so the answer to you question is either all, or none, and only none if that covenant was done away with before the infant Christ began to walk. i don't know that i've ever heard anyone give the position that the new covenant supplanted the old as soon as Jesus was born ((think i see facts that are strong objections to it already hmm)) -- so i'd have to say, all of them were still under the Sinai covenant while He was among us.

which explains why He told the rich young ruler who didn't believe He is God to keep the commandments, and live. because that is the Law of the covenant this man - not having faith in Christ but in '
what works must i do?' - was under.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I don't know what you mean. I am referring to the hour of temptation when Satan and his angels will be kicked out of heaven. When he deadly wound is healed when Satan will stand where he ought not proclaiming himself to be god, who Jesus when he returns will destroy him with the brightness of His coming when Satan is bound for the 1000 years in the pit the day the 2 witnesses rise, we are all changed. Only have 3 min before I can't change so in a hurry if I made mistake
Well, what I was asking was how Satan being on his way, in your view, affected how we keep the law.

What I'm hearing, is that in your view, Satan and his angels are still in heaven at this moment. But because it is a very brief time, maybe a few days or a few months, before Satan will be kicked out of heaven, then because of that we need to follow the moral parts of the law of Moses. And we need to follow them to the letter, not just the general idea behind them.

Am I understanding what you are saying right?
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude. See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Colossians 2:6‭-‬12 NASB
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
It is all a serious matter indeed! I appreciate the position that many take to insure we are not proposing that obedience to the law prior to salvation through the unmerited justification given by the Grace of God through Jesus is how we earn salvation
Agreed!
And, this becomes an heated issue/s from time to time, not only in the BDF, but, also in "churches of stone."

Comes with the territory, in venues such as this, as one can only discern "maturity", from the reflective information of one's posts.

One can only show faith by their works (meaning inwardly overcoming), in written form, as indicative of "Spiritual Maturation."

The heatedness comes when "Grace" becomes confused with "efforts", or "works" towards being, and becoming "Joint Heirs" WITH (not IN....WITH!) Christ!
Priests OF Jesus Christ!
Priests OF God, AND Jesus Christ!
Priests AFTER the Order of Melchizadek!
For THIS, is where Salvation "changes" FROM "everlasting", TO "FOREVER!" (line upon line. Precept upon precept. Here a little? THERE, a little.)


This is the "crux of the biscuit", the Apostles and Disciples were "attempting" to teach, in the whole of the N.T.
WITHOUT getting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Or, putting TOO MUCH a burden upon them, as to offend? For the "teachers" in the N.T. had ALREADY been "changed" from everlasting TO Eternal! Trying to "teach" the church in becoming the SAME as THEY!

And? If these were "those" days? When Christ Jesus had "freshly ascended" back to The Father in Heaven? And "the Church", was a "newborn?"
Then, yes! I would be typing out posts in a "similar" fashion!
But? It's not! (and) It isn't!

But, don't ask me! Ask the Lord of the Harvest!

2,000+ Years? C'mon People!

(lol) Yanno? I see a lotta people proclaim: "I've read the "back of the Book", and God wins!"
And, then? There's this:
Matthew 7
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.





 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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Thank You PH,

I appreciate your thoughtful answers, and wisdom!

As you stated, we have to find our own conclusions!

Accurate answers to anything we read or hear or see require EVERY SINGLE DETAIL involved in that question or the answer is speculation.

Let's speculate for a minute; Which of the thirteen tribes of Jacob were still under covenant with God when Jesus walked the earth?

Be specific:

I will wait for your reply before proceeding.
Hi SimpleGardner,

I'm interested in following the subject as you talk about it with posthuman.

There are multiple covenants listed in the scriptures, which ones are you referring to here?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,857
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This language saddens me. Jesus is love expressed in human form, a heart that does out and meets
our weakness and heals us, so we can walk in His ways.

Christ = love = law of love = reality of loving from the heart, with forgiveness, holiness and purity.

You said I shortened the law of the Spirit of Life to the law of the Spirit.
You shorten the law of love, of victory, of power through walking in the Spirit to one word, law.

1 no condemnation who in Christ Jesus.. 4 live according to the Spirit.
Rom 8

The tree of actions can spring from the heart of love that Jesus has planted or from the mind
of rules and success and failure, hitting the mark.

Do you know the difference I am trying to point out?
I know how my heart responds and my life if I obey rules intellectually, I fail, but in Christ
who speaks from my heart, I find victory.

Now legalists say, is this 100% victory 100% of the time. No. But God asks us to walk, and
when we fail, to repent, confess and walk on. It is why the temple with sacrifices was made,
God knew this was the path of sanctification.

So many say if the path of sanctification is not perfect it is worthless, which is actually just
rebellion against transformation and letting God make us into His perfect workmanship.
Why would that language sadden you?

Is it because you DO propose that Christ = Law like the other legalists are trying to do or because you DON'T propose that Christ = Law?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,857
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You must of misunderstood. Here is the last post in regards to this
Yes. That was ONE of the posts of yours which states Christ = Law.

You don't know you are doing it? You've posted that same post a few times. At least 3 that I know of, probably more.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Somehow was cut off from finishing my post....Here's the rest

To clarify though that our walk beyond that point guided by the Holy Spirit is the narrow path that leadeth to Life! This path is where the Holy Spirit changes us "precept upon precept, line upon line" is a good way to frame it! As we continue to keep the old man on the cross and allow the New Creation to gain full dominion we become "Christ Like" We take on the Righteousness of Christ and the byproduct is a new understanding through the Spirit of Gods Word/Scripture/Law!
T'wasn't I who framed it. ;)
But, you left out "here a little, there a little."
Here (again), is where a believer might well say: "Here!" "I'm done!" "There is no "their" THERE!" In a false absolving themselves from any further accountability, in pursuits of further Spiritual growth in the Father's "refining process."
I think there is an lack of "cognizance", of the "lateral movements", that occur WITHIN the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! Which happens as the "old man" (on/in the cross of Christ), matures/refined, and starts "carrying" his OWN weight", so to speak.


As can be witnessed in some postings in this venue.
 
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exactly when the new covenant was initiated is a really interesting question that i don't feel qualified to answer - the most common view i've heard is the moment He died, which is usually expressed in an argument over the thief on the cross beside Him, centering around whether this man died under the new or the old covenant, in an attempt to defend baptismal regeneration or some other related point. but i think, Christ forgave sin without blood sacrifice while He was walking with us, which is 'non-Sinai-covenant' kind of thing to do -- although David's sin was "removed" without any atonement by the Law, too. so it's complicated. but it's tangential --

i don't see how any of the tribes were exempted from the covenant while the rest were still bound by it. when it was made it was with all of them, not some, so the answer to you question is either all, or none, and only none if that covenant was done away with before the infant Christ began to walk. i don't know that i've ever heard anyone give the position that the new covenant supplanted the old as soon as Jesus was born ((think i see facts that are strong objections to it already hmm)) -- so i'd have to say, all of them were still under the Sinai covenant while He was among us.

which explains why He told the rich young ruler who didn't believe He is God to keep the commandments, and live. because that is the Law of the covenant this man - not having faith in Christ but in 'what works must i do?' - was under.

Interesting/ thoughtful deliberation.


I am not trying to foul up the works with the question but the answer lies just a bit beyond the main detail noted in ;

Jer 3:8 NIV I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.

So, we know when the kingdom of Israel (all 13 tribes) were divided after Solomon died, the one kingdom split into two kingdoms; North and South. The Northern "Kingdom of Israel" and the Southern "Kingdom of Judah". After some time, God gave the Northern Kingdom a writ of divorcement and sent them out of His house. The Northern kingdom of Israel refused to obey her Husband (God), think Covenant, so He had Hosea do the legal paperwork for the divorce. He then had the Assyrians remove her out of His house.

So, The Northern Kingdom of Israel, made up of Reuben, Simeon, Part of Levi, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun and Manasseh and Ephraim who were adopted by Jacob and essentially are called out in place of Joseph....were they under covenant after the divorce? No. However the southern Kingdom of Judah was. That Kingdom was made up of Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi. This was the status when Jesus was here.

Understanding this is important.

Who were the lost sheep? The Northern Tribes

Who was the prodigal son? Judah was the brother who was jealous, who was with Him always.

Who did Jesus come for? The lost sheep of the House of Israel.

The implications of this detail in many of the issues in the NT are immense.

Who were the treasure hidden in the field (the world)?

There are also implications in the OT Law which God will not violate; such as when a man divorces a wife and she remarries he may never marry her again!

So how, under what conditions may God remarry the Northern Kingdom of Israel whom He divorced and who took other gods (remarried)?
 
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Why would that language sadden you?

Is it because you DO propose that Christ = Law like the other legalists are trying to do or because you DON'T propose that Christ = Law?
Maybe the better way to frame it so it is not offensive is that Christ is the "Spirit of the Law" and it is important to realize that the "Torah" or the "Written Law" contains the words but not the "Spirit of the Law"! The "Torah/Written Law" is good and Holy and Just, but without the "Spirit of the Law" it is incapable of reforming mens hearts. David was the anointed King of Israel" That anointing with a measure of The Holy Spirit allowed him to see the Torah and recognize the goodness, holiness, and justice with it! This is what we do now who are anointed with that same Holy Spirit. We see the beauty in it. We could not see this beauty unless and until we receive salvation through the unmerited justification given to those who are called by the Grace of God to receive this gift and that of the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
 
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T'wasn't I who framed it. ;)
But, you left out "here a little, there a little."
Here (again), is where a believer might well say: "Here!" "I'm done!" "There is no "their" THERE!" In a false absolving themselves from any further accountability, in pursuits of further Spiritual growth in the Father's "refining process."
I think there is an lack of "cognizance", of the "lateral movements", that occur WITHIN the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! Which happens as the "old man" (on/in the cross of Christ), matures/refined, and starts "carrying" his OWN weight", so to speak.


As can be witnessed in some postings in this venue.
Thanks Brother, for filling in the details for me! :)
 
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Hi SimpleGardner,

I'm interested in following the subject as you talk about it with posthuman.

There are multiple covenants listed in the scriptures, which ones are you referring to here?

Great question! My apologies for being vague.

Sinai is the specific one I was referring to. The Abrahamic covenant is an irrevocable covenant, a gift!
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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Why would that language sadden you?

Is it because you DO propose that Christ = Law like the other legalists are trying to do or because you DON'T propose that Christ = Law?
Christ = love = law of love = reality of loving from the heart, with forgiveness, holiness and purity.

When you read the line above what do you think it means?
Somehow you have made the word law wrong and evil. How have you done this?

Do you desire lawlessness? Do you not know the son of lawlessness is the enemy of God?

How we follow love and how we fulfil the law are important questions, but lawlessness is not of God.
So you claim to know God yet do not know the law is Gods law, His heart, His path to His will.

If you are opposing walking in Gods ways, why is that? Which part of Gods ways are impossible or
you dislike and reject? If you cannot find any, then you do not oppose His heart and intentions.

The law is summarised in two things, Love God with all we are, and Love our neighbour as ourselves.

Is there a part of you which does not love God? Do you find you cannot love your neighbour as you love
yourself? We are along a path, and this path is Gods path, and being yoked to Him means we walk it.
God bless you.