Did Jesus said I'm God or worship me?

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May 23, 2010
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#1

Where Jesus says "I am God" or "Worship Me" in Bible?



The Christians could only claim that Jesus called himself the son of God. Never ever once did he claim Blatantly that he is God.

In the language of the Jew, every righteous person who followed the Will of God, was a Son of God. It was a metaphorical descriptive term. Look at the following verses :

"....Adam, which was the Son of God" - Luke 3:38

"And when the Sons of God came in unto the daugthters of men, and they bare children to them..." - Genesis 6: 4

"....Israel is My Son, even my firstborn" - Exodus 4:22

"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is my Firstborn" - Jeremiah 31:9

"...the Lord hath saith unto me, (David) Thou art My Son: this day have I Begotten thee" - Psalm 2:7

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the Sons of God" - 1 Romans 8:14

One can see from the above verses that God has sons by the tons.

Christians cant even claim that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son cos if you look above at Psalms 2:7, David is also mentioned as Begotten.

If Jesus was truly God himself, there was no need for him to beat around the bush. He has always said that the only way to God is through him. Isn't it the same for the prophets who came before him? Through Abraham, Isaac, David, Joseph, Jacob, Moses people worshipped the one and only God. It was through them that the One Almighty God was known.

It is the same with Jesus. His mission was the same as of the other prophets before him. So why not listen to Jesus' teachings? Why are you giving more weightage to Paul/Saul
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#2
Where Jesus says "I am God" or "Worship Me" in Bible?


The Christians could only claim that Jesus called himself the son of God. Never ever once did he claim Blatantly that he is God.

In the language of the Jew, every righteous person who followed the Will of God, was a Son of God. It was a metaphorical descriptive term. Look at the following verses :

"....Adam, which was the Son of God" - Luke 3:38

"And when the Sons of God came in unto the daugthters of men, and they bare children to them..." - Genesis 6: 4

"....Israel is My Son, even my firstborn" - Exodus 4:22

"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is my Firstborn" - Jeremiah 31:9

"...the Lord hath saith unto me, (David) Thou art My Son: this day have I Begotten thee" - Psalm 2:7

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the Sons of God" - 1 Romans 8:14

One can see from the above verses that God has sons by the tons.

Christians cant even claim that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son cos if you look above at Psalms 2:7, David is also mentioned as Begotten.

If Jesus was truly God himself, there was no need for him to beat around the bush. He has always said that the only way to God is through him. Isn't it the same for the prophets who came before him? Through Abraham, Isaac, David, Joseph, Jacob, Moses people worshipped the one and only God. It was through them that the One Almighty God was known.

It is the same with Jesus. His mission was the same as of the other prophets before him. So why not listen to Jesus' teachings? Why are you giving more weightage to Paul/Saul

so where are you getting your stuff lightme?

obviously not doing your own research
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#3
If Jesus did not claim to be God, then I wonder why the Jews were trying to stone Him for blasphemy? These same Jews that you say would have looked at His statements as being normal.
 
L

lightbliss

Guest
#4
So do you really want to know about Christ/Christianity or do you just want a debate?


John 10:30

I and my Father are one.

John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Philippians 2:5-11

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 
May 23, 2010
74
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#5
If Jesus did not claim to be God, then I wonder why the Jews were trying to stone Him for blasphemy? These same Jews that you say would have looked at His statements as being normal.
(37) I know you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. (38) I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.” (39) “Abraham is our father,” they answered. If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. (40) As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. (John 8:37-40)
In these verses, Jesus is accusing the Jews for trying to kill him, simply because they do not like what he has to say to them nor do they accept his message and his teachings. In verse 40, Jesus clearly tells them that he is a man just like them who is telling them the truth that he heard from God – not that he is god. He is telling them that he as well as they believe in Abraham, and he is basically asking them: “why then don’t you believe in me?” even though, Abraham did not do the miracles he showed them.
 
May 23, 2010
74
0
0
#6
So do you really want to know about Christ/Christianity or do you just want a debate?


John 10:30

I and my Father are one.

John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Philippians 2:5-11

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

"I and my father are one."

This verse, however is quoted out of context. The complete passage, starting with John 10:23, reads as follows:

"And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
John 10:23-30


In divinity? In a holy "Trinity"? No! They are one in PURPOSE. Just as no one shall pluck them out of Jesus' hand, so too shall no one pluck them out of God's hand.


Need more proof? Then read:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one."
John 17:20-22
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#7
(37) I know you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. (38) I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.” (39) “Abraham is our father,” they answered. If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. (40) As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. (John 8:37-40)
In these verses, Jesus is accusing the Jews for trying to kill him, simply because they do not like what he has to say to them nor do they accept his message and his teachings. In verse 40, Jesus clearly tells them that he is a man just like them who is telling them the truth that he heard from God – not that he is god. He is telling them that he as well as they believe in Abraham, and he is basically asking them: “why then don’t you believe in me?” even though, Abraham did not do the miracles he showed them.
You took this passage out of context. For Jesus continues saying;If God were your Father, you would love Me; for I have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. And later; Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word, he shall never see death. And later still; If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, He is our God; and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him, and if I say that I do not know Him, I shall be a liar like you, but I do know Him, and keep His word. Just a few words later the Jews picked up stones to kill Him. For saying that God is His Father, which makes Him equal with God.

I don't think I will answer you any more, as you are just trying to stir up trouble. That God became man in the flesh is part of the testimony of the saints. If a spirit confesses not that Jesus has come in the flesh, then it is not of God.
 
L

lightbliss

Guest
#8
"I and my father are one."

This verse, however is quoted out of context. The complete passage, starting with John 10:23, reads as follows:

"And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
John 10:23-30


In divinity? In a holy "Trinity"? No! They are one in PURPOSE. Just as no one shall pluck them out of Jesus' hand, so too shall no one pluck them out of God's hand.


Need more proof? Then read:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one."
John 17:20-22
So what exactly are you trying to say here?
 
C

Credo_ut_Intelligam

Guest
#9
Never ever once did he claim Blatantly that he is God.
That Jesus never used the phrase “I’m God, worship me” is really irrelevant if we have tons of other reasons for believing that he is God and that it is appropriate to worship him.

For example, Thomas in John 20:28 calls him God. Did Jesus rebuke him and say “No, no, I’m not God”? No, rather Jesus affirms his belief.

Furthermore, Jesus said that all were to “honor the Son, just as they honor the Father” (John 5:23) and he is worshipped by angels in Hebrews 1:6 (also see Rev. 5:13 and 7:10 ) and Jesus said that persons could pray to him and that he would answer prayers (John 14:12-14).

The Jews understood that Jesus was making claims to deity:

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God” (also see John 5:17-29).

In the language of the Jew, every righteous person who followed the Will of God, was a Son of God. It was a metaphorical descriptive term. Look at the following verses :

"....Adam, which was the Son of God" - Luke 3:38

"And when the Sons of God came in unto the daugthters of men, and they bare children to them..." - Genesis 6: 4

"....Israel is My Son, even my firstborn" - Exodus 4:22

"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is my Firstborn" - Jeremiah 31:9

"...the Lord hath saith unto me, (David) Thou art My Son: this day have I Begotten thee" - Psalm 2:7

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the Sons of God" - 1 Romans 8:14

One can see from the above verses that God has sons by the tons.

Christians cant even claim that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son cos if you look above at Psalms 2:7, David is also mentioned as Begotten.
John 1:14 says “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the monogenes Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

Monogenes is the Greek term used that some Bibles translate as "only begotten." A more accurate and literal translation of the term is "one of a kind" or "unique" Son of God.

True, other persons are called "children of God" and "sons of God," but Jesus is the monogenes (one of a kind) Son of God.

In Psalms 2:7 the Septuagint does not say David is God’s monogenes son, so you’re attempt to draw a parallel won’t work here. It uses a different word: γεγέννηκά (γεννάω). Monogenes is not related to gennao.

So this entire thing about God having other "sons" can simply be ignored, since the point is not that God has no other sons, in whatever sense, but that Jesus is the Son of God in a unique (monogenes) sense.

Jesus unique Sonship points to sameness in divine nature, that’s how the Jews understood it and that’s why they tried to kill him for making himself equal with God. This is also why John almost immediately after recording Thomas’s confession of Jesus as “my Lord and my God” (20:28) says that these things have been recorded so that we may know that Jesus is the Son of God (20:31).

If Jesus was truly God himself, there was no need for him to beat around the bush. He has always said that the only way to God is through him. Isn't it the same for the prophets who came before him? Through Abraham, Isaac, David, Joseph, Jacob, Moses people worshipped the one and only God. It was through them that the One Almighty God was known.
As B. B. Warfield says, “The revelation [of the Trinity] itself was made not in word but in deed. It was made in the incarnation of God the Son, and the outpouring of God the Holy Spirit. The relation of the two Testaments to this revelation is in the one case that of preparation for it, and in the other that of product of it. The revelation itself is embodied just in Christ and the Holy Spirit” (qtd. in Reymond. New Sys. Theo. of the Christian Faith. 209)

Reymond continues: “It has been often said, as the reason lying behind the determination of the divine wisdom to reveal the fact of the Trinity in this manner, that it was the task of the Old Testament ‘to fix firmly in the minds and hearts of the people of God the great fundamental truth of the unity of the Godhead; and it would have been dangerous to speak to them of the plurality within this unity until this task had been fully accomplished.’ But, as Warfield argues, it is more likely that the full revelation of the Godhead’s personal manifoldness was necessarily tied to the unfolding of the redemptive process, and that as that process materialized the revelation of the Trinity necessarily was disclosed as its corollary” (ibid 209-210).

It is the same with Jesus. His mission was the same as of the other prophets before him. So why not listen to Jesus' teachings?
Jesus' mission was his work as Messiah, his sinless life, his death, and his resurrection.

Mark 8:31 And he [Jesus] began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Paul is not opposed to Jesus’ teaching. He brings the same message:

Acts 26:22–23 To this day I have had the help that comes from God, and so I stand here testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would come to pass: that the Christ must suffer and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.”
 
Last edited:
May 23, 2010
74
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#10
That Jesus never used the phrase “I’m God, worship me” is really irrelevant if we have tons of other reasons for believing that he is God and that it is appropriate to worship him.

For example, Thomas in John 20:28 calls him God. Did Jesus rebuke him and say “No, no, I’m not God”? No, rather Jesus affirms his belief.

Furthermore, Jesus said that all were to “honor the Son, just as they honor the Father” (John 5:23) and he is worshipped by angels in Hebrews 1:6 (also see Rev. 5:13 and 7:10 ) and Jesus said that persons could pray to him and that he would answer prayers (John 14:12-14).

The Jews understood that Jesus was making claims to deity:

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God” (also see John 5:17-29).



John 1:14 says “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the monogenes Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

Monogenes is the Greek term used that some Bibles translate as "only begotten." A more accurate and literal translation of the term is "one of a kind" or "unique" Son of God.

True, other persons are called "children of God" and "sons of God," but Jesus is the monogenes (one of a kind) Son of God.

In Psalms 2:7 the Septuagint does not say David is God’s monogenes son, so you’re attempt to draw a parallel won’t work here. It uses a different word: γεγέννηκά (γεννάω). Monogenes is not related to gennao.

So this entire thing about God having other "sons" can simply be ignored, since the point is not that God has no other sons, in whatever sense, but that Jesus is the Son of God in a unique (monogenes) sense.

Jesus unique Sonship points to sameness in divine nature, that’s how the Jews understood it and that’s why they tried to kill him for making himself equal with God. This is also why John almost immediately after recording Thomas’s confession of Jesus as “my Lord and my God” (20:28) says that these things have been recorded so that we may know that Jesus is the Son of God (20:31).



As B. B. Warfield says, “The revelation [of the Trinity] itself was made not in word but in deed. It was made in the incarnation of God the Son, and the outpouring of God the Holy Spirit. The relation of the two Testaments to this revelation is in the one case that of preparation for it, and in the other that of product of it. The revelation itself is embodied just in Christ and the Holy Spirit” (qtd. in Reymond. New Sys. Theo. of the Christian Faith. 209)

Reymond continues: “It has been often said, as the reason lying behind the determination of the divine wisdom to reveal the fact of the Trinity in this manner, that it was the task of the Old Testament ‘to fix firmly in the minds and hearts of the people of God the great fundamental truth of the unity of the Godhead; and it would have been dangerous to speak to them of the plurality within this unity until this task had been fully accomplished.’ But, as Warfield argues, it is more likely that the full revelation of the Godhead’s personal manifoldness was necessarily tied to the unfolding of the redemptive process, and that as that process materialized the revelation of the Trinity necessarily was disclosed as its corollary” (ibid 209-210).



Jesus' mission was his work as Messiah, his sinless life, his death, and his resurrection.

Mark 8:31 And he [Jesus] began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Paul is not opposed to Jesus’ teaching. He brings the same message:

Acts 26:22–23 To this day I have had the help that comes from God, and so I stand here testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would come to pass: that the Christ must suffer and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.”

Good answer, i hope more people like u, the serious one on the teaching of Jesus. May God bless you.
 
C

Credo_ut_Intelligam

Guest
#11
(37) I know you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. (38) I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.” (39) “Abraham is our father,” they answered. If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. (40) As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. (John 8:37-40)
In these verses, Jesus is accusing the Jews for trying to kill him, simply because they do not like what he has to say to them nor do they accept his message and his teachings.
This doesn't explain the John 10 or John 5 passage where the Jews sought to kill him for making himself equal with God. What you are quoting is a conversation of a different context in John 8.

It is true, they had "no room" for the truths of Jesus. One of those truths being his divinity.

In verse 40, Jesus clearly tells them that he is a man just like them who is telling them the truth that he heard from God – not that he is god. He is telling them that he as well as they believe in Abraham, and he is basically asking them: “why then don’t you believe in me?” even though, Abraham did not do the miracles he showed them.
In my experience Muslims often point to the fact that Jesus is a man and that there is a distinction between him and God to try and disprove the trinity (another Muslim from this sight tried this with me via pm a few weeks ago), but this mainly demonstrates that they don't fully grasp the doctrine of the Trinity or the doctrine of Christ.

We believe that Jesus has a fully human nature and a fully divine nature. This is the doctrine of the hypostatic union. So yes, Jesus is a man, fully man, but he is also God. And yes, Jesus is distinct from God (the Father). He is sent by God (the Father) and proclaimed in his earthly ministry what God (the Father) commissioned him to. The doctrine of the trinity teaches that there are three distinct persons in the one divine essence or Godhead.

So pointing to verses that speak of Jesus' humanity or that speak of God as being distinct from Jesus are simply insufficient to refute the doctrine of the Trinity. At best, it evidences a confusion as to what the doctrine teaches.
 
C

Credo_ut_Intelligam

Guest
#12
"I and my father are one."

This verse, however is quoted out of context. The complete passage, starting with John 10:23, reads as follows:

"And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
John 10:23-30


In divinity? In a holy "Trinity"? No! They are one in PURPOSE. Just as no one shall pluck them out of Jesus' hand, so too shall no one pluck them out of God's hand.
Look at the context further down:

The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” (Jn 10:31–33).

The Jews understood his claim to "oneness" to be related to his claim of Sonship. Thus, the "oneness" claim, at least in this instance, is most likely a claim relating to the sameness of nature.
 
May 21, 2009
3,955
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#13
He said I AM! He said it is as you say when he talk to pilot when pilot was asking him was he God.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#14
Where Jesus says "I am God" or "Worship Me" in Bible?


The Christians could only claim that Jesus called himself the son of God. Never ever once did he claim Blatantly that he is God.

In the language of the Jew, every righteous person who followed the Will of God, was a Son of God. It was a metaphorical descriptive term. Look at the following verses :

"....Adam, which was the Son of God" - Luke 3:38

"And when the Sons of God came in unto the daugthters of men, and they bare children to them..." - Genesis 6: 4

"....Israel is My Son, even my firstborn" - Exodus 4:22

"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is my Firstborn" - Jeremiah 31:9

"...the Lord hath saith unto me, (David) Thou art My Son: this day have I Begotten thee" - Psalm 2:7

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the Sons of God" - 1 Romans 8:14

One can see from the above verses that God has sons by the tons.

Christians cant even claim that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son cos if you look above at Psalms 2:7, David is also mentioned as Begotten.

If Jesus was truly God himself, there was no need for him to beat around the bush. He has always said that the only way to God is through him. Isn't it the same for the prophets who came before him? Through Abraham, Isaac, David, Joseph, Jacob, Moses people worshipped the one and only God. It was through them that the One Almighty God was known.

It is the same with Jesus. His mission was the same as of the other prophets before him. So why not listen to Jesus' teachings? Why are you giving more weightage to Paul/Saul
He did not "beat around the bush", but there was a time and a place for the revelation of this truth. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am" a clear claim of Godhood, so clear that the Jews picked up stones to stone Him. In addition, He accepted the worship of Thomas, without correcting him. There are many other instances.
We give equal weight to all of the Word of God.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#15
"I and my father are one."

This verse, however is quoted out of context. The complete passage, starting with John 10:23, reads as follows:

"And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
John 10:23-30
It is interesting that you miss the main point of this passage; Jesus is claiming the authority of God.


In divinity? In a holy "Trinity"? No! They are one in PURPOSE. Just as no one shall pluck them out of Jesus' hand, so too shall no one pluck them out of God's hand.
And how can they truly be of one purpose if Jesus is not God?


Need more proof? Then read:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one."
John 17:20-22
Again you miss the point, that Jesus and the Father are a compound unity.
 
Jun 20, 2010
71
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0
#16
Mark 14:61-64;

61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
63Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
 
Jun 20, 2010
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#17
John 14: 8-11;

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#18
Mark 14:61-64;

61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
63Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
Nice post, Night Owl.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#20
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost: each play a role in the Trinity. We must not confuse the Persons of the Trinity.

While the word Trinity does not occur there, the concept is clearly taught in the Bible. The logic of the doctrine of the Trinity is simple. Two biblical truths are evident in Scripture, the logical conclusion of which is the Trinity: 1. There is one God. 2. There are three distinct persons who are God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

That the three members of the Trinity are distinct persons is clear in that each is mentioned in distinction form the others. The Son prayed to the Father (cf. John 17 ). The Father spoke from heaven about the Son at his baptism ( Matt. 3:15–17 ). Indeed, the Holy Spirit was present at the same time, revealing that they coexist. Further, the fact that they have separate titles (Father, Son, and Spirit) indicate they are not one person. Also, each member of the Trinity has special functions that help us to identify them. For example, the Father planned salvation ( John 3:16 ; Eph. 1:4 ); the Son accomplished it on the cross ( John 17:4 ; 19:30 ; Heb. 1:1–2 ) and at the resurrection ( Rom. 4:25 ; 1 Cor. 15:1–6 ), and the Holy Spirit applies it to the lives of the believers ( John 3:5 ; Eph. 4:30 ; Titus 3:5–7 ). The Son submits to the Father ( 1 Cor. 11:3 ; 15:28 ), and the Holy Spirit glorifies the Son ( John 16:14 ).

The Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry has a page titled 'Who do we pray to, the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit?' at: Who do we pray to, the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry