Did mis-treatment of woman begin with Adam?

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JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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#1
Was he so annoyed, or angry, or whatever, with Eve, that it was he who set the pattern of unfair treatment of woman that has been the rule through the centuries?
Or was it the men of that era, in general, who believed that since Eve sinned first that woman needed to be dominated?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,231
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#2
Interesting question! I don't think there is any evidence to answer it directly. However, In the statement of consequences that would befall humankind after their sin, God said to the woman, "Your desire shall be for your husband, but he shall rule over you" (emphasis added). Six-plus millennia of history testify to its fulfillment.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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#3
Was he so annoyed, or angry, or whatever, with Eve, that it was he who set the pattern of unfair treatment of woman that has been the rule through the centuries?
Or was it the men of that era, in general, who believed that since Eve sinned first that woman needed to be dominated?
How did Adam mistreat Eve?

Did you know that women were treated much worse at the time of Jesus than at the time of Moses?

Also, Eve may have sinned FIRST....but it wasn't HER sin that caused the fall, but Adam's.
So in your understanding, then, it would have been ADAM that needed to be dominated!!

Then again,,,can we say that GOD wanted woman to be submissive? Genesis 3:16
He created her to be a helpmate....not a slave.
Did the fall create a slave-like condition?

Interesting ideas.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,290
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#4
I did not say he did mistreat Eve. I said could it be possible he set a pattern for men mistreating woman that lasted through the ages.

I did know that during Jesus time they were treated worse.

I don't agree with you that Adams sin caused the fall. Maybe both together, or Eve alone, but I don't see it as Adam by himself.Where does it say that in the bible?

I have my thoughts on how God has wired woman, but that is not really relevant to this thread. Suffice to say they are not to be mistreated, and are men's equals according to how God made us. But I do believe they are "programmed" by God to be supporters and help mates. Not leaders, although they have the capability to do so and have done so when men have abdicated their positions.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#5
I don't agree with you that Adams sin caused the fall. Maybe both together, or Eve alone, but I don't see it as Adam by himself. Where does it say that in the bible?
Romans 5
12 Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

~Deut
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#7
You're welcome.

There is much more, of course, but Romans 5 makes it as clear as any place in the Bible.

This passage is also part of the basis for the Augustinian doctrine called, "Original Sin", that men/women are, "by nature, children of wrath" .. Ephesians 2:1-3, conceived/born with a fallen, sinful nature .. e.g. Psalm 51:5.

~Deut
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,095
335
83
#8
Was he so annoyed, or angry, or whatever, with Eve, that it was he who set the pattern of unfair treatment of woman that has been the rule through the centuries?
Or was it the men of that era, in general, who believed that since Eve sinned first that woman needed to be dominated?
I would not say that Adam set the pattern for the unfair treatment of women, for it is going to happen anyway, for men know that they are the stronger physically, and the world is motivated by self exaltation, so it will happen eventually as the men will take advantage of that over the women like the strong rule over the weak, and cannot stand if the women try to control them, or talk back being the more stronger one.

It is the way of the world, the strong take advantage over the weak, so the women will get dominated, for this world is like a stream roller, as they go forward with aggression dominating, and controlling.

Even if they did not know about Adam and Eve the men will still dominate the women.

But God is the one that said the husband shall rule over the wife, but a lot of men get it wrong in the way they rule, and not of God.

But like I said it will happen anyway the men dominating the women, and Adam while he was in the garden could of seen a tree branch fallen, quite a big one, and said honey, help me get this tree branch, and move it, you get one end and I will get the other, what the heck, wow, you are weak oh wife of mine, and then Adam might of thought, hmmmm, she would be easy to dominate, and control, lol.

Of course Adam would not have arrogance, because his first sin was eating of the forbidden tree, then he might have arrogance.

Women are hit anyway for being the weaker sex, and being in a world motivated by selfishness, arrogance, and self exaltation, but they were treated better before technology which caused people to not be on the same level anymore, and money, and material things, to flow like a raging river, and morality slipped, and people became more selfish, and arrogant, and self exalting, which caused men to look at women in a negative light, and then feminism, and women's liberation, which women became more aggressive, so the men became more aggressive towards the women to rule, and control them, and might throw in violence every now and then.

That is why children are abused, why, because they are weaker than the adults, and the women are weaker than the men so they will be dominated, with a few exceptions concerning women, mainly in the steroid department.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,906
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#9
we should ask -- since Woman sinned first, how is it sin entered the world through Adam?

Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
(1 Timothy 2:14)

Adam was not deceived. this means that he came to Woman, or Woman came to him, and she was in transgression, but Adam wasn't -- and Adam fully knew this, not being deceived.

why did Adam take the fruit when Woman offered it to him?
God charges him - "
because you listened to your wife"
Adam listened to her, and was not deceived by her, but he took the fruit anyway.


why? is he mistreating her by doing this?

and then, when God pronounces the curse on the Serpent, and He issues the judgement of Adam and of Woman, and He goes further and says that the Seed of the Woman will arise and crush the head of the seed of the Serpent -- when Adam, not deceived, hears this, he changes Woman's name to Eve: "mother of all the living" -- and immediately God says behold! the man has become like one of Us!

is Adam mistreating her by doing this?

i think Adam lays out a pattern of great respect and sacrificial love for his wife, and it is no surprise that it is so:

So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
(1 Corinthians 15:45)

he is a type of Christ
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,316
442
83
#10
Was he so annoyed, or angry, or whatever, with Eve, that it was he who set the pattern of unfair treatment of woman that has been the rule through the centuries?
Or was it the men of that era, in general, who believed that since Eve sinned first that woman needed to be dominated?
It was Eva sin and the consequences of it. Read Genesis 3, 16.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,290
431
83
#11
we should ask -- since Woman sinned first, how is it sin entered the world through Adam?

Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
(1 Timothy 2:14)

Adam was not deceived. this means that he came to Woman, or Woman came to him, and she was in transgression, but Adam wasn't -- and Adam fully knew this, not being deceived.

why did Adam take the fruit when Woman offered it to him?
God charges him - "
because you listened to your wife"
Adam listened to her, and was not deceived by her, but he took the fruit anyway.


why? is he mistreating her by doing this?

and then, when God pronounces the curse on the Serpent, and He issues the judgement of Adam and of Woman, and He goes further and says that the Seed of the Woman will arise and crush the head of the seed of the Serpent -- when Adam, not deceived, hears this, he changes Woman's name to Eve: "mother of all the living" -- and immediately God says behold! the man has become like one of Us!

is Adam mistreating her by doing this?

i think Adam lays out a pattern of great respect and sacrificial love for his wife, and it is no surprise that it is so:

So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
(1 Corinthians 15:45)

he is a type of Christ
I was referring about what may have happened in the hundreds of years they were together after the Garden.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,575
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#12
Was he so annoyed, or angry, or whatever, with Eve, that it was he who set the pattern of unfair treatment of woman that has been the rule through the centuries?
Or was it the men of that era, in general, who believed that since Eve sinned first that woman needed to be dominated?
Both ideas are nonsensical.

Adam actually SUCCUMBED TO EVE. In modern parlance he would be called a wussy or some such term. And he thereby brought a curse on himself and the human race.

Here is what happened: ...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Now had Adam been inclined to do the right thing, here is what he would have done:

1. He would have told Eve in no uncertain terms that she had disobeyed God.

2. He would have absolutely refused to be a party to her disobedience.

3. He would have immediately gone to God and asked Him to deal with this.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,906
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#13
I was referring about what may have happened in the hundreds of years they were together after the Garden.
if we want to speculate, we should do so on the basis of the things we actually can have knowledge of ;)

so if what we know of his relationship with his wife is honoring to her, it casts doubt on speculation that he flipped character during the time of his life that isn't recorded, but if we can see hints of him being disrespectful in the beginning, it adds credence to such speculation that he may have continued or deepened in the same behaviour.

the only thing i can usefully speak of is speaking from what i do know.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,231
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#14
Adam actually SUCCUMBED TO EVE. In modern parlance he would be called a wussy or some such term. And he thereby brought a curse on himself and the human race.
God cursed the ground and the serpent. He did not curse the man and the woman.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,906
6,498
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#15
Now had Adam been inclined to do the right thing, here is what he would have done:

1. He would have told Eve in no uncertain terms that she had disobeyed God.

2. He would have absolutely refused to be a party to her disobedience.

3. He would have immediately gone to God and asked Him to deal with this.
so you're saying, he put her first.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,906
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#16
Or was it the men of that era, in general, who believed that since Eve sinned first that woman needed to be dominated?
'dominated' is a loaded term.

but from the beginning,

the LORD God said,
"It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."
(Genesis 2:18)
and it's affirmed:

neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
(1 Corinthians 11:9)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,906
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#17
God cursed the ground and the serpent. He did not curse the man and the woman.
yes
thank you :)


they confessed their sin -- there is no record that the Serpent did; as far as the testimony it appears the Serpent wasn't even allowed to speak.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,906
6,498
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#18
the pattern of unfair treatment of woman that has been the rule through the centuries?
is this what you're looking for?

your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.
(Genesis 3:16)
 

mar09

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2014
4,355
750
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#19
God cursed the ground and the serpent. He did not curse the man and the woman.
Yes, how important this point is. So many confuse it and say Adam and Eve were, or Eve only in childbirth was cursed. No such thing in the passages. It was the ground and the serpent.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,290
431
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#20
is this what you're looking for?

your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.
(Genesis 3:16)
No, that's not it.
But thanks for your insight re the other posts. Good things to chew on.