Did Paul cancel the 1 19th Psalm?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,144
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#1
Psalm 119:1-2 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. 2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.​

Gal. 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I understand that when scripture speaks of “under the law” it means using the law for our salvation and does not tell us to ignore the law for our guidance. When scripture tells us we are under grace, my understanding is that we are saved by the grace of the Lord, and has nothing to do with our need to obey God. Do you think this is wrong?

Many posts say the law is cancelled, I hope that answers to this thread will make their position clear. If the law is cancelled, so is the 119th Psalm.

Many posters say the law has been cancelled, but if it has been cancelled then the 119th Psalm is not truth. We are told in this psalm that the law is eternal.

We know many things in the OT has been changed, just as Christ is the innocent blood that was symbolized in the OT. It is now wrong to use animal blood as a symbol for Christ. It is required, however, that we learn what the animal blood did so we better understand what Christ does for us for now Christ is the innocent blood.

The form of innocent blood shed was changed, was the law changed? Is it wrong to belief in the 119th Psalm as scripture?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
678
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#2
Paul was speaking about the whole "law" including the prophets which pointed to Jesus.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,144
664
113
#3
Paul was speaking about the whole "law" including the prophets which pointed to Jesus.
Does this mean that you feel sure Paul told us God cancelled the 119th Psalm?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
678
113
#4
No he didn't.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,075
2,308
113
#5
2 different laws are being spoken of.

1 Is the Law of the Lord.

The other is the law, the 10 commandments.

Just like the difference between the Ministration of Righteousness and the Ministration of Condemnation and Death.

Which legalists purposely conflate.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,861
6,922
113
#6
Psalm 119:1-2 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. 2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.

Gal. 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I understand that when scripture speaks of “under the law” it means using the law for our salvation and does not tell us to ignore the law for our guidance. When scripture tells us we are under grace, my understanding is that we are saved by the grace of the Lord, and has nothing to do with our need to obey God. Do you think this is wrong?
Yes, I think it is wrong. The council recorded in Acts 15 and referenced in Galatians addressed this... clearly.

Many posts say the law is cancelled, I hope that answers to this thread will make their position clear. If the law is cancelled, so is the 119th Psalm.
"Cancelled" is clearly a loaded term for you. How about "fulfilled". However, "cancelled" was the term Paul used in Colossians 2:15.

Many posters say the law has been cancelled, but if it has been cancelled then the 119th Psalm is not truth. We are told in this psalm that the law is eternal.
Something that has been fulfilled doesn't become non-truth; it's just fulfilled. When you make the last payment on a mortgage, it is fulfilled, but the truth that you had a mortgage doesn't change.

We know many things in the OT has been changed, just as Christ is the innocent blood that was symbolized in the OT. It is now wrong to use animal blood as a symbol for Christ. It is required, however, that we learn what the animal blood did so we better understand what Christ does for us for now Christ is the innocent blood.

The form of innocent blood shed was changed, was the law changed? Is it wrong to belief in the 119th Psalm as scripture?
You're badly mixing up related but distinct issues. Hebrews 7:12 addresses the issue of the law being changed.

Psalm 119, like all the Psalms, are there for inspiration, comfort, exhortation, and example. However, because the Law to which the psalm refers has been fulfilled, we must put the psalm in its proper perspective. It's still Scripture, and always will be, just like Leviticus is still Scripture. However, the law doesn't apply to Christians. Perhaps if you mentally replace "law" with "word of God" it will make more sense.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,144
664
113
#7
2 different laws are being spoken of.

1 Is the Law of the Lord.

The other is the law, the 10 commandments.

Just like the difference between the Ministration of Righteousness and the Ministration of Condemnation and Death.

Which legalists purposely conflate.
Then it would follow that the 10 commandments are not of the Lord. I don't see how that could be possible.

Either we can rely on scripture as truth or we can't rely on it. If something isn't truth, then we can't rely on any of it. If I have seen discrepancies in scripture I feel it is more reliable than my understanding, so I make a search until I understand.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,498
1,580
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63
#8
Psalm 119:1-2 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. 2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.​

Gal. 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I understand that when scripture speaks of “under the law” it means using the law for our salvation and does not tell us to ignore the law for our guidance. When scripture tells us we are under grace, my understanding is that we are saved by the grace of the Lord, and has nothing to do with our need to obey God. Do you think this is wrong?

Many posts say the law is cancelled, I hope that answers to this thread will make their position clear. If the law is cancelled, so is the 119th Psalm.

Many posters say the law has been cancelled, but if it has been cancelled then the 119th Psalm is not truth. We are told in this psalm that the law is eternal.

We know many things in the OT has been changed, just as Christ is the innocent blood that was symbolized in the OT. It is now wrong to use animal blood as a symbol for Christ. It is required, however, that we learn what the animal blood did so we better understand what Christ does for us for now Christ is the innocent blood.

The form of innocent blood shed was changed, was the law changed? Is it wrong to belief in the 119th Psalm as scripture?
Hi Blik, I believe Psalm 119:1-2 meant the same thing when it was written to OT believers as it does to NT believers today.

Psalm 119
1 How blessed [How HAPPY] are those whose way is blameless,
Who walk in the law of the LORD.
2 How blessed [How HAPPY] are those who observe His testimonies,
Who seek Him with all their heart.​

The opening verses of Psalm 119 are referring to the life of OT "believers" (and of sanctification/of living the Christian life of NT believers today, as well). When Paul refers to the Law of Moses as a strict "schoolmaster" in Galatians 3, he is referring to its use in bringing people to faith for the first time, OT & NT (because it clearly shows us our need for a Savior). So Psalm 119:1-2 has little, if anything to do with the Apostle's teaching in Galatians 3:24-25, because the Law has a very different use than that in the life of someone who is already a believer.

This may be prove to be useful:

THE THREEFOLD USE OF THE LAW
by R.C. Sproul​

Every Christian wrestles with the question, how does the Old Testament law relate to my life? Is the Old Testament law irrelevant to Christians or is there some sense in which we are still bound by portions of it? As the heresy of antinomianism becomes ever more pervasive in our culture, the need to answer these questions grows increasingly urgent.​
The Reformation was founded on grace and not upon law. Yet the law of God was not repudiated by the Reformers. John Calvin, for example, wrote what has become known as the “Threefold Use of the Law” in order to show the importance of the law for the Christian life.1​
The first purpose of the law


is to be a mirror. On the one hand, the law of God reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God. The law tells us much about who God is. Perhaps more important, the law illumines human sinfulness. Augustine wrote, “The law orders, that we, after attempting to do what is ordered, and so feeling our weakness under the law, may learn to implore the help of grace.”2 The law highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. Here the law acts as a severe schoolmaster who drives us to Christ.​
A second purpose for the law is the restraint of evil. The law, in and of itself, cannot change human hearts. It can, however, serve to protect the righteous from the unjust. Calvin says this purpose is “by means of its fearful denunciations and the consequent dread of punishment, to curb those who, unless forced, have no regard for rectitude and justice.”3 The law allows for a limited measure of justice on this earth, until the last judgment is realized.​
The third purpose of the law is to reveal what is pleasing to God. As born-again children of God, the law enlightens us as to what is pleasing to our Father, whom we seek to serve. The Christian delights in the law as God Himself delights in it. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). This is the highest function of the law, to serve as an instrument for the people of God to give Him honor and glory.​

By studying or meditating on the law of God, we attend the school of righteousness. We learn what pleases God and what offends Him. The moral law that God reveals in Scripture is always binding upon us. Our redemption is from the curse of God’s law, not from our duty to obey it. We are justified, not because of our obedience to the law, but in order that we may become obedient to God’s law. To love Christ is to keep His commandments. To love God is to obey His law.​
Summary
1. The church today has been invaded by antinomianism, which weakens, rejects, or distorts the law of God.​
2. The law of God is a mirror of God’s holiness and our unrighteousness. It serves to reveal to us our need of a savior.​
3. The law of God is a restraint against sin.​
4. The law of God reveals what is pleasing and what is offensive to God.​
5. The Christian is to love the law of God and to obey the moral law of God.​
Biblical passages for reflection:
Psalm 19:7-11​
Psalm 119:9-16​
Romans 7:7-25​
Romans 8:3-4​
1 Corinthians 7:19​
Galatians 3:24​
Excerpt from Essential Truths Of The Christian Faith by R. C. Sproul © (Tyndale 1992)​

~Deut


https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/sproul/threefold_law.html
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,498
1,580
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#9
Sorry about the mistakes above, particularly the formatting mistakes. I didn't notice them until my 5 minute editing time limit was up.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,144
664
113
#10
Hi Blik, I believe Psalm 119:1-2 meant the same thing when it was written to OT believers as it does to NT believers today.

Psalm 119
1 How blessed [How HAPPY] are those whose way is blameless,
Who walk in the law of the LORD.
2 How blessed [How HAPPY] are those who observe His testimonies,
Who seek Him with all their heart.​

The opening verses of Psalm 119 are referring to the life of OT "believers" (and of sanctification/of living the Christian life of NT believers today, as well). When Paul refers to the Law of Moses as a strict "schoolmaster" in Galatians 3, he is referring to its use in bringing people to faith for the first time, OT & NT (because it clearly shows us our need for a Savior). So Psalm 119:1-2 has little, if anything to do with the Apostle's teaching in Galatians 3:24-25, because the Law has a very different use than that in the life of someone who is already a believer.

This may be prove to be useful:

THE THREEFOLD USE OF THE LAW
by R.C. Sproul​

Every Christian wrestles with the question, how does the Old Testament law relate to my life? Is the Old Testament law irrelevant to Christians or is there some sense in which we are still bound by portions of it? As the heresy of antinomianism becomes ever more pervasive in our culture, the need to answer these questions grows increasingly urgent.​
The Reformation was founded on grace and not upon law. Yet the law of God was not repudiated by the Reformers. John Calvin, for example, wrote what has become known as the “Threefold Use of the Law” in order to show the importance of the law for the Christian life.1​
The first purpose of the law


is to be a mirror. On the one hand, the law of God reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God. The law tells us much about who God is. Perhaps more important, the law illumines human sinfulness. Augustine wrote, “The law orders, that we, after attempting to do what is ordered, and so feeling our weakness under the law, may learn to implore the help of grace.”2 The law highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. Here the law acts as a severe schoolmaster who drives us to Christ.​
A second purpose for the law is the restraint of evil. The law, in and of itself, cannot change human hearts. It can, however, serve to protect the righteous from the unjust. Calvin says this purpose is “by means of its fearful denunciations and the consequent dread of punishment, to curb those who, unless forced, have no regard for rectitude and justice.”3 The law allows for a limited measure of justice on this earth, until the last judgment is realized.​
The third purpose of the law is to reveal what is pleasing to God. As born-again children of God, the law enlightens us as to what is pleasing to our Father, whom we seek to serve. The Christian delights in the law as God Himself delights in it. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). This is the highest function of the law, to serve as an instrument for the people of God to give Him honor and glory.​

By studying or meditating on the law of God, we attend the school of righteousness. We learn what pleases God and what offends Him. The moral law that God reveals in Scripture is always binding upon us. Our redemption is from the curse of God’s law, not from our duty to obey it. We are justified, not because of our obedience to the law, but in order that we may become obedient to God’s law. To love Christ is to keep His commandments. To love God is to obey His law.​
Summary
1. The church today has been invaded by antinomianism, which weakens, rejects, or distorts the law of God.​
2. The law of God is a mirror of God’s holiness and our unrighteousness. It serves to reveal to us our need of a savior.​
3. The law of God is a restraint against sin.​
4. The law of God reveals what is pleasing and what is offensive to God.​
5. The Christian is to love the law of God and to obey the moral law of God.​
When the temple was destroyed and God's people had to adjust so the temple could not be the center of their religious life any longer, they made adjustments as we have done today.​
Before that destruction there were no rabbis, no synagogues. These were started as a substitute for the temple and the priests. God did not direct the Hebrews to use rabbis and synagogues, they were man made. Then the Hebrews decided that the rabbis could speak for the Lord, but God didn't say so. That, too, was man made. Yet the Hebrews use what the rabbis decided in their interpretations of scripture as binding as scripture itself. It is of man, not of God. Man called it the Law of Moses, even, but it was not. It often has great wisdom, written by Godly men, but still man made.​
The 119th Psalm does not address these man made laws, it addresses the eternal laws. These laws are embedded in the ten commandments when they are read as ways to express the love that is of God.​
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,498
1,580
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#11
When the temple was destroyed and God's people had to adjust so the temple could not be the center of their religious life any longer, they made adjustments as we have done today.​
Before that destruction there were no rabbis, no synagogues. These were started as a substitute for the temple and the priests. God did not direct the Hebrews to use rabbis and synagogues, they were man made. Then the Hebrews decided that the rabbis could speak for the Lord, but God didn't say so. That, too, was man made. Yet the Hebrews use what the rabbis decided in their interpretations of scripture as binding as scripture itself. It is of man, not of God. Man called it the Law of Moses, even, but it was not. It often has great wisdom, written by Godly men, but still man made.​
The 119th Psalm does not address these man made laws, it addresses the eternal laws. These laws are embedded in the ten commandments when they are read as ways to express the love that is of God.​
Hi again Blik, the Jews teach that God delivered both a "Written" Torah (the Bible, which includes the Decalogue) and an "Oral" Torah (Jewish "Tradition") to Moses at the same time. And the Lord, when He walked among us as a man, referred to both of them regularly by saying either 1. "it is written" concerning the written OT or 2. "it nullifies what the Bible teaches" in regard to many of the Jewish oral "Traditions".

The thing is, by prefacing so many of His own teachings with, "it is written", in regard to the OT, He gave credence to the entire OT (the "Law and the Prophets" .. cf Matthew 7:12) as being the very word of God (and therefore something that is binding upon the hearts/consciences of all believers .. just like the Decalogue is).

The Bible, both OT and New, is made up entirely of the "breathed" words of God Himself. That, in fact, is why it is referred to as "the word of God".

~Deut

2 Timothy 3
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,306
1,260
113
#12
Does this mean that you feel sure Paul told us God cancelled the 119th Psalm?
The law is the word of God. His word is law (no theories) Psalm 119 is part of it. We are not to add or subtract from the perfect law a combination of two. The letter of the law scripture and the unseen spirit of the law, the spirit of faith or can be called the law of faith (believing)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,574
4,062
113
#13
Psalm 119:1-2 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. 2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
It always helps to keep things in context an in perspective. Psalm 119 is about the whole Word of God, or at that time the Hebrew Scriptures, including the Torah. So what David was saying is that those who obey God and seek Him with their whole heart are blessed.
Gal. 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Paul is making reference to the Law of Moses (the Torah) with its 613 commandments and its tabernacle sacrifices. As he says over and over again, no one can be justified by the works or deeds of the Law. And no one can keep that Law perfectly. So the Old Covenant was simply our tutor to bring us to Christ, so that we would be justified by grace through faith.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,770
3,521
113
#14
Psalm 119:1-2 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. 2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.​

Gal. 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I understand that when scripture speaks of “under the law” it means using the law for our salvation and does not tell us to ignore the law for our guidance. When scripture tells us we are under grace, my understanding is that we are saved by the grace of the Lord, and has nothing to do with our need to obey God. Do you think this is wrong?

Many posts say the law is cancelled, I hope that answers to this thread will make their position clear. If the law is cancelled, so is the 119th Psalm.

Many posters say the law has been cancelled, but if it has been cancelled then the 119th Psalm is not truth. We are told in this psalm that the law is eternal.

We know many things in the OT has been changed, just as Christ is the innocent blood that was symbolized in the OT. It is now wrong to use animal blood as a symbol for Christ. It is required, however, that we learn what the animal blood did so we better understand what Christ does for us for now Christ is the innocent blood.

The form of innocent blood shed was changed, was the law changed? Is it wrong to belief in the 119th Psalm as scripture?
It was bad when folks read the Old Testamen wering the veil of Moses, but it is even worsse how many who hear and see Jesus, Yeshua still have the veil over their eyes. We msut pray for them to "come out of her."
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,144
664
113
#15
Hi again Blik, the Jews teach that God delivered both a "Written" Torah (the Bible, which includes the Decalogue) and an "Oral" Torah (Jewish "Tradition") to Moses at the same time. And the Lord, when He walked among us as a man, referred to both of them regularly by saying either 1. "it is written" concerning the written OT or 2. "it nullifies what the Bible teaches" in regard to many of the Jewish oral "Traditions".

The thing is, by prefacing so many of His own teachings with, "it is written", in regard to the OT, He gave credence to the entire OT (the "Law and the Prophets" .. cf Matthew 7:12) as being the very word of God (and therefore something that is binding upon the hearts/consciences of all believers .. just like the Decalogue is).

The Bible, both OT and New, is made up entirely of the "breathed" words of God Himself. That, in fact, is why it is referred to as "the word of God".

~Deut

2 Timothy 3
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
.
God produced the law that was written. God did not produce the oral law, that was what the Jews say God gave but scripture does not tell us it is God given. Jews are men, not God.

It is the same with the Catholic Church we have today. They say what the pope produces is from God not men, but that is not scripture.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,770
3,521
113
#16
tHAT ORAL TEACHING IS REFERRED TO AS "RAbinical law" and this is wht our Savior confronted with th Pharises and Sadducees(sp).
Those traditions of man were being taught as commandment from God.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,498
1,580
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63
#17
God produced the law that was written. God did not produce the oral law, that was what the Jews say God gave but scripture does not tell us it is God given. Jews are men, not God.

It is the same with the Catholic Church we have today. They say what the pope produces is from God not men, but that is not scripture.
OK, we seem to be on the same page after all (y) (I thought you might have been ruling everything in the Bible out, save the Decalogue, as the words of men instead of God :eek: .. so, just a misunderstanding on my part, thank you for clearing that up :)).

As for both the Jewish and Catholic "Traditions", I agree with you there as well. It is doubtful that any of it is from God, and we know that it is not when it contradicts and nullifies the [written] word of God, as the Lord made clear to us when He was here .. e.g. Mark 7:1-13.

I also believe our Catholic friends are somewhat blind (intentionally or unintentionally, I cannot say) when it comes to the Jewish "Tradition" (Oral Torah), and the shortcomings their own oral Tradition shares with the Jewish oral Tradition.

~Deut
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,144
664
113
#18
It always helps to keep things in context an in perspective. Psalm 119 is about the whole Word of God, or at that time the Hebrew Scriptures, including the Torah. So what David was saying is that those who obey God and seek Him with their whole heart are blessed.

Paul is making reference to the Law of Moses (the Torah) with its 613 commandments and its tabernacle sacrifices. As he says over and over again, no one can be justified by the works or deeds of the Law. And no one can keep that Law perfectly. So the Old Covenant was simply our tutor to bring us to Christ, so that we would be justified by grace through faith.
I don't think you are correct in how you interpret what God tells us.

The law of Moses as we understand it is eternal when we read it in the spirit of the Lord, for it is ways to express love. The law of Moses as Paul speaks of it is the oral law the rabbis told was their interpretation of scripture and was man made, not God breathed.

God is eternal and His principles are eternal. The principles are expressed in the 613 laws and must be read in terms of the culture of the people at the time they applied to. For example, Christ is our high priest and the old position of high priest gives what Christ does as our high priest, only better and more completely.

When God makes a covenant it is telling us of a relationship God has with us and there is no cancellation of a covenant. Parts of a way God relates may be replaced by one that does the same thing in a different way such as the way blood sacrifice for the remission of our sins was different: from animal blood that only signified Christ to the actual blood of Christ. God gave rituals to teach at one time, but the teaching stays the same only the Holy Spirit teaches in the new. Both taught the same principles.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,770
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#19
When reading Psalm 119 it helps if we replace the wod, WORD, with Jesus or Yeshua.....He is the Word...……..
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,770
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#20
Psa 119:41 VAU. Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word.


Psa 119:42 So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.


Psa 119:43 And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.