Did the Holy Spirit Literally descend on Jesus in bodily form at his Baptism

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#41
exactly...and what is headed our way? a whole bunch of lying signs and wonders.
should we fear being "impotent" christians? do we need signs?

or should we be certain we have received the love of the truth?
it appears God Himself will be sending strong delusion to those who do not....

2 Thessalonians 2
The Man of Lawlessness
1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,a 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Stand Firm
13But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruitsd to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

16Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, 17comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Actually I meant literally what Gospel do these people teach. I know some charismatics who believe in a works based Gospel. and are lost. But i also know some who believe in a faith based gospel alone, these are my brothers in christ. although they worship different than i do.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#42
I love the NT times. They met in homes. not in cathedrals or buildings called churhces. They ate together. fellowshipped together, studied together. sang together on almost a daily basis (if not daily)

this is what the church is missing. Not signs and wonders. I do not need signs and wonders to believe in God. In fact Jesus said a wicked and adulterous generation seeketh a sign yet none will be given it.

Your right, a wicked generation seeks signs... why is it that so many Christians seek sign wonders and miracles, are they seeking an experience hit, sounds more like adrenalin junkies than Holy Spirit filled people.

Just as a side note, isn't it wonderful to meet in each others home's for fellowship prayer/bible study, I lalso love going to church and siworship God with all my local brothers and sisters. Praise God..Mmmm sounds very much like NT times.....
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#43
So I need to have tongues and prophesy and healing to be made stronger in Christ? And my church needs them?
I believe your church or any church must recognise that the spirit who moved as He did in Biblical times moves the same today if people will open their hearts and minds to him

To each one is given different gifts. It is not for me to say what each individual should have

But as you agree Christ's power was the Holy Spirit while he walked this earth, it is ours too
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#44
So I need to have tongues and prophesy and healing to be made stronger in Christ? And my church needs them?
tongues: languages of the gentiles...miraculously poured out at Pentecost. mission accomplished.

prophesies: are recorded. mission accomplished.

healing: by His Stripes we are healed. answered prayer. mission accomplished.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
Your right, a wicked generation seeks signs... why is it that so many Christians seek sign wonders and miracles, are they seeking an experience hit, sounds more like adrenalin junkies than Holy Spirit filled people.

Just as a side note, isn't it wonderful to meet in each others home's for fellowship prayer/bible study, I lalso love going to church and siworship God with all my local brothers and sisters. Praise God..Mmmm sounds very much like NT times.....
It is awsome. My church does this now. many of us meet in each others homes on a weekly basis. and our actual home churhc full bible study is in my brother in laws house. We do meet every sunday in a central location where all the home churhces in the area meet together for instruction and music.

I love it
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#46
But as you agree Christ's power was the Holy Spirit while he walked this earth, it is ours too
and since jesus wasn't God, but just another son, and since that powerful Spirit is poured ON us, just like it was poured ONTO him....

ye shall be as gods.....
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#47
Do you not believe Christ spoke the truth when he walked this earth concerning his followers doing the things he had been doing?

Two things are needed for that to happen

The individual must from the heart give their life to God, not easy to do, I KNOW

And they must accept the power of the Holy Spirit for today and the gifts of the Spirit for today.

You can study theology all you want, but without the above you wil NEVER have a Christianity they had then

Hi LBG,

I take it you never actually read what I said, but have decided to ramble on about something else.

One cannot come to Christ unless the Holy Spirit does the greatest miracle...makes new hearts....so that you can see who God is, repent, and worship Him for who He is.

You keep using theology as your credibility clause, its like I don't need to learn how to read english to understand the language? we all do theology!

What you have said is, that if we do not believe that signs and wonders, and flapping about a stage like a trout out of water are for today then we are not saved..

HOW false that is LBG, just as false as your beliefs about God.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#48
tongues: languages of the gentiles...miraculously poured out at Pentecost. mission accomplished.

prophesies: are recorded. mission accomplished.

healing: by His Stripes we are healed. answered prayer. mission accomplished.

But where there are prophecies they will cease, where there are tongues they will be stilled, where there is knowledge it will pass awayu, but we know in part and we prophesy in part but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears
1 Cor 13:8-10

Well Paul lumps Prophecy, tongues and knowledge together there, so if perfection has come and tongues has gone knowledge has gone also
I wonder how many on cc would accept that:D
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#49
But where there are prophecies they will cease, where there are tongues they will be stilled, where there is knowledge it will pass awayu, but we know in part and we prophesy in part but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears
1 Cor 13:8-10

Well Paul lumps Prophecy, tongues and knowledge together there, so if perfection has come and tongues has gone knowledge has gone also
I wonder how many on cc would accept that:D

I do love how you jump from one band wagon to another,, Jesus not being God.. now you need signs and wonders or else you are not saved..wonder what it will be next week LBG?
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#50
I do love how you jump from one band wagon to another,, Jesus not being God.. now you need signs and wonders or else you are not saved..wonder what it will be next week LBG?

Try to be truthful Phil, please

Who said anything about a person not being saved?

Have I ever condemned you or told you you are a heretic?
 

phil36

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Feb 12, 2009
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#51
Try to be truthful Phil, please

Who said anything about a person not being saved?

Have I ever condemned you or told you you are a heretic?

I think you maybe have actually, but its ok.. I have certainly said your beliefs are heretical which in that understanding makes you a heretic, masquarading as a christian.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#52
Actually I meant literally what Gospel do these people teach. I know some charismatics who believe in a works based Gospel. and are lost. But i also know some who believe in a faith based gospel alone, these are my brothers in christ. although they worship different than i do.
that's great if they believe the true gospel.
but what are they actually looking for with all the experiential stuff?

what does that say about FAITH?

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

and what is the obvious effect? a dulling of the ability to see what's going on around them in the world today, exactly as prophesied: that's the PURPOSE.

these "experiences" do not sharpen anyone's ability to be guided by the Holy Spirit, they weaken it. the evidence is everywhere...people caught up in this stuff seem unable to recognize what's happening to them.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#53
I think you maybe have actually, but its ok.. I have certainly said your beliefs are heretical which in that understanding makes you a heretic, masquarading as a christian.
Please find a quote where I called you a heretic or said you had no eternal life


And I believe what Christ and John said was neccessary to have eternal life, but you say it is not enough and I am a heretic masquerading as a Christian

So I have a tough choice, don't I.

Do I believe Christ and John? Or do I believe you?
 

phil36

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#54
Please find a quote where I called you a heretic or said you had no eternal life


And I believe what Christ and John said was neccessary to have eternal life, but you say it is not enough and I am a heretic masquerading as a Christian

So I have a tough choice, don't I.

Do I believe Christ and John? Or do I believe you?

Hi LBG,

I truly believe that you honestly believe what you do, i do believe that. But, it is not the truth of scripture.

You certainly don't believe in Christ that is for sure. yet you masquarade as a christian, in full knowledge!!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#55
But where there are prophecies they will cease, where there are tongues they will be stilled, where there is knowledge it will pass awayu, but we know in part and we prophesy in part but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears
1 Cor 13:8-10

Well Paul lumps Prophecy, tongues and knowledge together there, so if perfection has come and tongues has gone knowledge has gone also
I wonder how many on cc would accept that:D
that "knowledge" mentioned there is the apostolic era prophets (and apostles) received, each IN PART. no one knew exactly what the Mystery of the Church revealed to paul in ephesians was UNTIL it was revealed to him! (that the church would be both jew and gentile, and this was purposed from the beginning).

same with the "mystery" of the "rapture"...the Truth of God's Plan was progressively revealed, and now it is COMPLETE. why does anyone want to return to partial knowledge?r

it's not hard to see how The Lord built the church, LBG....people that are trying to build on a foundation other than what was already laid are doing just what the jews did who turned away from the Finished Work of Christ and returned to the Law.

take a close look at what Paul says about himself:

1 Corinthians 3:10
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds.

paul was an apostle. are there any more apsotles? not according to paul. he says others build ON that foundation, laid ONCE: Jesus, the apostles and the prophets.

Ephesians 2
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,c but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God byd the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection of Christ
1 Now I would remind you, brothers,a of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
 
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Dec 19, 2009
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#56
Hi LBG,

I truly believe that you honestly believe what you do, i do believe that. But, it is not the truth of scripture.

You certainly don't believe in Christ that is for sure. yet you masquarade as a christian, in full knowledge!!
You leave me with a wry smile here, you really do

I don't believe scripture? You don't believe Christ's words as to what is the required belief for a person to have eternal life, neither John's, biut wisdom is always proven right by her inconsistencies
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#57
You leave me with a wry smile here, you really do

I don't believe scripture? You don't believe Christ's words as to what is the required belief for a person to have eternal life, neither John's, biut wisdom is always proven right by her inconsistencies

LBG, you are not fooling anyone, you have plainly wrote that you do not believe Jesus is God. and yet you proclaim to be a christian....

Your are in idolatry, you worship a Jesus of your own making, not scripture.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#58
LBG, you are not fooling anyone, you have plainly wrote that you do not believe Jesus is God. and yet you proclaim to be a christian....

Your are in idolatry, you worship a Jesus of your own making, not scripture.
Well John lived with Christ for three years when he walked this earth, what did he say?

No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12

So is John in idolatry too

Paul said

When it says that everything has been put under him IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF who put everything under Christ

Is Paul also in idolatry?

When Christ was asked a question and he was addressed as good teacher, what did he say?
Why do you call me good, no-one is good but GOD ALONE
 
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#59
LBG,

I wonder who you would risk offending, if from your own lips you confessed that Jesus Christ was Almighty God, the one and only true God, that was manifest in the flesh, who took on a human form by becoming a man. Would you be offending Christians who have been saved by grace and love the Lord Jesus Christ, would you be offending any member of the Godhead, would you be bringing shame upon the Lord Jesus Christ or violating the integrity of God's word? Would you be communicating a lie that could deceive others and introduce leaven in their heart? Would you be injecting into the gospel of Christ a wrong concept that would keep sinners from salvation? Would you be adding some form doctrine that would magnify the spirit of antichrist? Or would you be violating what you believe the scriptures plainly teach you and what you believe the Spirit has made clear to you? Is it possible that even the demons and Satan recognize and believe that Jesus Christ is God?

These questions you can answer in your own heart, I don't need to know.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#60
LBG,

I wonder who you would risk offending, if from your own lips you confessed that Jesus Christ was Almighty God, the one and only true God, that was manifest in the flesh, who took on a human form by becoming a man. Would you be offending Christians who have been saved by grace and love the Lord Jesus Christ, would you be offending any member of the Godhead, would you be bringing shame upon the Lord Jesus Christ or violating the integrity of God's word? Would you be communicating a lie that could deceive others and introduce leaven in their heart? Would you be injecting into the gospel of Christ a wrong concept that would keep sinners from salvation? Would you be adding some form doctrine that would magnify the spirit of antichrist? Or would you be violating what you believe the scriptures plainly teach you and what you believe the Spirit has made clear to you? Is it possible that even the demons and Satan recognize and believe that Jesus Christ is God?

These questions you can answer in your own heart, I don't need to know.
As I have said before Red, when you posted this to me on another thread.

BTW

As you know I have read this already whenv you put it up on another threrad, why are you posting it here again now? For my benefit, or do you think others may be impressed by it?

But anyway. As you cannot answer any questions put to you on this subject and can only put questions to others and then run when scripture is put before you I don't believe your words carry any weight

You clearly have no confidence in your asertions on this subject or much Biblical knowledge on it, else you would have the knowledge and confidence to reply to the simple questions repeatedly put to you

But maybe you can tell me Red

Why do Trinitarian churches not plainly preach from the Pulpit that Christ is God Himself and if a person does not believe this they can have no eternal life

I went to Trinitarian churches for thirty years in England and I never once heard it preached, is it different in the US?

It is strange they do not plainly preach something on which eternal life hinges, don't you think?
 
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