Did the promises of the Mosaic Covenant include forgiveness?

[Blik]

We know that forgiveness was offered in the OT. We are told so in the Psalms and especially in Leviticus.

Lev. 4:31 ……………..as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. In this way the priest will make atonement for them, and THEY WILL BE FORGIVEN.

Lev. 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that MAKE ATONEMENT FOR THE SOUL.

The Mosaic Covenant offers blessing for law abidance, but I find no scripture that defines those blessings as including salvation, do you?

There are no changes in God, God is the same in what scripture calls alpha and omega, or beginning to end. Scripture states that it is only through the blood of Christ that salvation is given. The OT does not specify the blood given as Christ’s blood because those people would not know what the Lord was speaking of, but that mystery has been revealed to us. Christ fulfilled and completed that promise of the Lord. God knew of Christ for God is eternal and knows all of happenings that we are limited from knowing because of our kind of time. So, the blood offered was symbolic blood of Christ. Moses speaks of works of obedience but does not speak of forgiveness as is spoken of in Leviticus.

We can conclude that works bring blessings, but works do not bring salvation. Only the blood of Christ does that, and it has always been so.

 

[JaumeJ]

When the vil of Moses is removed one sees Jesus-Yeshua and salvation even in the writings given Moses. Yes, even in the laws given him to write down. Get rid of the veil and see faith, mercy and justice when reading the writings as did all who first believe our Savior for they only had those writings for two centuries after our Savior Ascended.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Mosaic Covenant offers blessing for law abidance, but I find no scripture that defines those blessings as including salvation, do you?

Do you know on what basis salvation is offered? Why don't you simply study the New Testament if you want the answer.

 

[Blik]

Do you know on what basis salvation is offered? Why don't you simply study the New Testament if you want the answer.

where in the new testament does it make a statement telling what the blessings were promised by the Mosaic Covenant?

My thought was that this would be an interesting subject for discussion, I have studied this question thoroughly, thank you. I conclude that the blessings for works Moses speaks of does not include salvation, yet I have been told that Moses thought it could bring about salvation. I would like to know where these people picked up on that idea. I feel it is adding to the written word, something we are not to do.

 

[JaumeJ]

If we apply the law as did the Pharisees, we lack the teaching of Yeshua that they are only valid when containing mercy, justice and faith. The Pharisees were ignorant of these principles as indicated by our Lord and Savior. This is the beginning of understanding the grace in the writings attributed to Moses yet given him by our Lord Who is the Word.

 

[Nehemiah6]

where in the new testament does it make a statement telling what the blessings were promised by the Mosaic Covenant?

In the Mosaic Covenant, blessings were conditioned on obedience. However, in the New Testament it is the ABRAHAMIC COVENANT which brings blessings to the Church.

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham... That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Gal 3:9,14)

 

[Corban]

Forgiveness and Law are mutually exclusive. If the law of the country says that murder must be met with the death penalty, the judge is FORCED to give the death penalty. He is then righteous. But if he forgives the murderer he is UNRIGHTEOUS both to the law AND the family of the murdered. Added to this, law is not only about righteous judgment, but it must contain an element of RETRIBUTION. Exodus 22:1 shows it; "If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep."

God, giver of life, possessions and law, CANNOT wink at any offense. The basis of forgiveness is that something, or somebody else PAYS the price of righteousness AND retribution.

This principle reaches it zenith in the New Testament. Forgiveness IS BOUGHT with the substitutionary death of the greatest and most innocent Man to ever to live - Jesus. We are asked to forgive in the understanding that the PRICE already landed on Jesus, or that the price of transgression will fall on the perpetrator at a later date - latest at the White Throne. NOTHING goes unanswered!

 

[Blik]

Moses spoke of law obedience, I do not see anywhere that he mentioned grace. There was grace in the OT as I showed in post one, but that is given only through the blood of Christ. I do not see any mention of the blood of Christ when Moses gave the law.

What I see Moses speaking of is the blessings that come from law obedience, apart from the salvation that is only the result of faith. After salvation we become righteous, but it is not our righteousness, it is Christ's. We take on Christ's righteousness and then are not only saved, but blessed through our following Christ.

However, your posts speak of salvation. Please tell me what scripture you base to speaking of salvation when speaking of the Mosaic Covenant.

 

[JaumeJ]

Forgiveness and Law are mutually exclusive. If the law of the country says that murder must be met with the death penalty, the judge is FORCED to give the death penalty. He is then righteous. But if he forgives the murderer he is UNRIGHTEOUS both to the law AND the family of the murdered. Added to this, law is not only about righteous judgment, but it must contain an element of RETRIBUTION. Exodus 22:1 shows it; "If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep."

God, giver of life, possessions and law, CANNOT wink at any offense. The basis of forgiveness is that something, or somebody else PAYS the price of righteousness AND retribution.

This principle reaches it zenith in the New Testament. Forgiveness IS BOUGHT with the substitutionary death of the greatest and most innocent Man to ever to live - Jesus. We are asked to forgive in the understanding that the PRICE already landed on Jesus, or that the price of transgression will fall on the perpetrator at a later date - latest at the White Throne. NOTHING goes unanswered!

We have all read where Jesus-Yeshua told the Pharisees they lacked the application of three principles in applying the law, faith, justice and mercy. This being true, for our Savior teaches only truth, mercy must be applied in understanding and applying the law. The veil of Moses is still over the eyes of many who think they believe Yeshua, yet they do not understand these principles.

 

[Corban]

We have all read where Jesus-Yeshua told the Pharisees they lacked the application of three principles in applying the law, faith, justice and mercy. This being true, for our Savior teaches only truth, mercy must be applied in understanding and applying the law. The veil of Moses is still over the eyes of many who think they believe Yeshua, yet they do not understand these principles.

But we do not discuss "mercy". We discuss "FORGIVENESS under the Mosaic Covenant". These are two different words. Added to this, although our Lord Jesus was a Man under Law Himself, He taught the New Man and the Kingdom. Have you not read;

Matthew 11:13 ; "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

Luke 16:16; "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

The Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5, 6 and 7 was "NEW wine", and New Wine has nothing to do with old wineskins. It was only when our Lord Jesus introduced the Church in Mathew 16, and started the Church by breathing the Holy Spirit in John 20:20-23, that permission to "remit" sins was given. Otherwise, who can forgive sins but God?

As to the Veil, it was Moses who wore it first. Then the Jews. And it is an interesting thing that it is only in the Hebrew Old Testament that "Yeshua" - a form of Joshua, came to prominence. It does not appear in the New Testament. Are you a Jew? The Church has no Veil. In 2nd Corinthians 3:15-18, note the grammar;

15 "But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."

Paul was addressing the Church in Corinth. "Their" in verse 15 is the Jews, and those who read only the Pentateuch. Verse 16 GUARANTEES the veil removed when a man turns to Jesus. That is, all Christians. This is confirmed in verse 17 that were the Spirit is, IS "liberty". And verse 18 shows who has an UNVEILED face - "WE ALL"! "WE" - the Church, and "ALL" - everybody in the Church without exception.

 

[JaumeJ]

Brilliant. You have declared mercy does not contain forgiveness. I cannot accept this. Yeshua teaches and outlines and explains the law under grace, and so it is. Perhaps our Father-s mercy, in the minds of some, does not contain forgiveness or grace, but for me it always does, and always will.

 

[Corban]

Brilliant. You have declared mercy does not contain forgiveness. I cannot accept this. Yeshua teaches and outlines and explains the law under grace, and so it is. Perhaps our Father-s mercy, in the minds of some, does not contain forgiveness or grace, but for me it always does, and always will.

Thanks for the "friendly". Ditto.

Let's take an example. As Lot escapes Sodom, we read in Genesis 19:19; "Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die".

What was Lot forgiven of?

 

[Grandpa]

Moses spoke of law obedience, I do not see anywhere that he mentioned grace. There was grace in the OT as I showed in post one, but that is given only through the blood of Christ. I do not see any mention of the blood of Christ when Moses gave the law.

What I see Moses speaking of is the blessings that come from law obedience, apart from the salvation that is only the result of faith. After salvation we become righteous, but it is not our righteousness, it is Christ's. We take on Christ's righteousness and then are not only saved, but blessed through our following Christ.

However, your posts speak of salvation. Please tell me what scripture you base to speaking of salvation when speaking of the Mosaic Covenant.

Matthew 19:16-20
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?



I thought you originally said that the blood of animals couldn't atone? Now you are giving scripture showing that the blood of animals IS the atonement?

 

[JaumeJ]

He was taken out of Sodom, he and his family. The men of Sodom wanted to have their way with the two angels of the Lord. This is something I will not elaborate upon because mankind has collectively interpreted the events in a very strange manner judging by appearances and never with right judgment.
It had to be forgiven for tolerating and dwelling with these truly demonic people for any who even looked back would be a pillar of salt.