Discernment versus Judgement

AnandaHya · Jun 3, 2011

Discernment versus Judgement

what is the difference? does either action go against God? lots of people say don't judge others but what does that really mean? You should allow unjust people to continue hurting and maiming others? you shouldn't call them out for it? We are to be God's hands and feet, how is that possible if we don't discern what is good and what is bad?

1 Kings 3:8-10

New King James Version (NKJV)

8 And Your servant is in the midst of Your people whom You have chosen, a great people, too numerous to be numbered or counted. 9 Therefore give to Your servant an understanding heart to judge Your people, that I may discern between good and evil. For who is able to judge this great people of Yours?”
10 The speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.

AnandaHya · Jun 4, 2011

Critical Issues Commentary: Discernment in an Age of Deception: Defining the Believer's Biblical Call to Judge

"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man, who built his house upon the rock. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and burst against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded upon the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not act upon them, will be like a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and burst against that house; and it fell, and great was its fall. (Matthew 7:24-27)

The lawless ones do not abide by the teachings of Christ. They are the false prophets. The fruits by which they are known are their teachings, not their personalities, the number of their followers, or their miracles"

(gathering notes and websites on the subject)

AnandaHya · Jun 4, 2011

"And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will see my face no more. Therefore I testify to you this day, that I am innocent of the blood of all men. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. (Acts 20:27)
Notice, first of all, that the phrase "preaching the kingdom" is synonymously parallel with his description of his preaching in verse 21, "repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." The message of the kingdom was not some message like the social gospel as some claim today, but the gospel of the kingdom is repentance and faith (see Mark 1:14, 15). These are the terms of entrance into the kingdom.

Secondly, notice that Paul claimed innocence from bloodguiltiness. This means that had he not proclaimed both the terms of entrance into the kingdom, and the whole of what God has revealed of His purposes, Paul would have imperiled their souls, failed his sacred mission, and brought guilt upon himself for failing to warn them of coming judgment (see Ezekiel 33:6). These same responsibilities apply to pastors and other church leaders today. This is so very important because the flock must be equipped to withstand the onslaught of the inevitable wolves who will arise.

These wolves are the subject of Paul's warning to the church leaders:

Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. (Acts 20:28-30)"

AnandaHya · Jun 4, 2011

here are some Bible verses about judging and not judging from the article by Bob DeWaay...

" I then made categories for the various meanings that I found and placed each verse in the correct category, based on the Greek word that was translated. Then I further sorted the categories by "do"; "do not" and then tangential categories that did not fit the do or do not schema. The following is the result. You can look up the verses yourself to determine if you think I correctly categorized them. The most interesting result to me is that the largest category contained passages about discerning.
-- Bob DeWaay

Do make a correct determination based on facts and/or Scripture(discern):
Krino_
Luke 7:43, Luke 12:57, John 7:22-24, John 7:51, John 8:15, 16, Acts 4:19, Acts 15:19, Acts 16:15, Acts 23:26, 1Corinthians 2:2, 1Corinthians 5:3, 1Corinthians 5:12, 13, 1Corinthians 7:37, 1Corinthians 10:15, 1Corinthians 11:13, 1Corinthians 11:31, 32, 2Corinthians 5:14

Diakrino_
Matthew 16:13, 1Corinthians 11:29, 31, 1Corinthians 14:29

Diakrisis
Hebrews 5:14

Do discern spirits:
Diakrisis
1Corinthians 12:10

Do not judge motives or relative piety:
Krino_
Matthew 7:1-3, 1Corinthians 4:5

Diakrino_
1Corinthians 4:7

Do not show partiality or prejudice (pre-judge who to treat kindly):
Krino_
Luke 6:35-38

Diakrino_
James 2:4

Do not judge oneself to be unworthy of salvation by rejecting the gospel:
Krino_
Acts 13:46

Do not hide your own guilt by condemning others who are no different:
Krino_
Romans 2:1-3, Romans 2:27

Do not judge someone for that which he has been given liberty by God:
Krino_
Romans 14:3-5, 10, 13, 1Corinthians 10:29

Do not judge the opinions of a weaker brother:
Diakrisis
Romans 14:1

Do not allow another to judge you in a matter in which you have been given liberty:
Krino_
Colossians 2:16

Do not insist on using one's liberty in a way that harms a weaker brother:
Krino_
Romans 14:22

Do not take God's place as lawgiver and then judge your brother based on your own decrees:
Krino_
James 4:11, 12

Do not take a fellow Christian to court but make proper judgment within the church:
Krino_
1Corinthians 6:1-3

Diakrino_
1Corinthians 6:5

Do not have doubt:
Diakrino_
Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:23, Romans 4:20, Jude 1:22, James 1:6

Do not have serious misgivings about an action, but then do it anyway:
Diakrino_
Romans 14:23

Do not ask questions for conscience sake before eating meat:
Anakrino_
1Corinthians 10:25, 27

The Lord makes the final examination:
Anakrino_
1Corinthians 4:3, 4

When the church prophesies properly, an unbeliever will be called to account:
Anakrino_
1Corinthians 14:24

Apostles making a determination for the church:
Krino_
Acts 16:4, Acts 21:25

To be without misgivings:
Diakrino_
Acts 11:12

To examine in order to make an appraisal:
Anakrino_
Luke 23:14, Acts 12:19, Acts 17:11, Acts 24:8, Acts 28:18, 1Corinthians 2:14, 15, 1Corinthians 9:3

zone · Jun 4, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Chris has some good new episodes up.

Piper / Warren Debrief With Phil Johnson Part 1

• Debrief of John Piper's Interview of Rick Warren With Guest Phil Johnson of the PyroManiacs Blog

http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/

journey41 · Jun 5, 2011

AnandaHya said:

[/QUOTE]We can judge what they have spoken or done is not holy, and show them scripture because the Word has all authority, but we cant say whether they are going to heaven or hell. That is not up to us to judge. For we dont know what the Lord has planned for them, whether he will refine them later, or if he will cut them off.

mbyk2688 · Jun 5, 2011

we are to make judgements. teh Bible does not teach not to make judgement, it teaches that we are to be sure we have the log out of our eye before removing a spec from anothers. In other words, make sure there is no besetting sin in your own life before you try and reprove another for theirs. Jesus made judgements, Pau aclled others fools, and so on. What you need to remember is that we are only to make judgements regarding other believersw that are caught in a sin or trnasgression, not the worl of non believers. We are to please our commanding officer, Christ, and not get ourselves involved in other matters. Keep this in mind when you do make a judgement: be merciful and know that it is those who are spiritual who are to attempt to restore another. Being spiritual means having your senses trained to knwo the difference between good and evil which comes by raeding and meditating on God's word. And never ever forget this: the purose of reproving another is to restore them, not to condemn them--that is why you may only reprove believers caught in sin. Do not give that which is holy to dogs, lest they tear you to pieces...

sisterinchrist · Jun 5, 2011

The word says that if we see a brother sinning a sin that will take him to hell to warn him. Its how we approach our loved ones, friends, or even a complete stranger. The gospel is to preached. We are to witness for Jesus Christ. To the saved and unsaved. To the unsaved the message of the cross, what Jesus done for them on calvary! Warn them where the ones who reject Jesus go.HELL! People are so afraid to tell that part. Jesus is full of mercy and grace,HES ALSO JUST! The word is not just for the sinner but for US,the CHRISTIAN. He tells us how we should live.We cant just say we believe, we must repent and TRY our BEST to live it. I hope im able to approach others in love and through the holy spirit reach others for Jesus and not to come across as judgemental. Jesus is the way, truth,and life! People dont like the truth,it usually makes them mad. One things for sure though, Gods word does not return void,they think about that seed you plant.

pickles · Jun 5, 2011

We are called to witness, to correct, to help and love.
I cannot give a perfect answer here, other than to say I look to Jesus each time I see something that may need speaking to.
We cannot judge the heart though.
As to those that live to cause pain or bring evil?
Vindication is of God Our Father.

God bless.
pickles

journey41 · Jun 5, 2011

mbyk2688 said:

[/QUOTE]Good answer!

2 Corinthians 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

So we shouldn't be too harsh, but do everything in love. Our harsh words may be the exact words to tip one over the edge....... when we should conentrate on building him up again.

pickles · Jun 5, 2011

journey41 said:

Amen Journey,
We had a person in our neighborhood, that all thought was stand offish and selfish.
She rarely spoke to anyone, and when she did, it was always about what was lacking.
I often wondered about her, and tried to reach out to her.
It took some time, but I soon came to see that she was not this way at all.
She was actually terribly shy and selfcontious.
She was terrified of people and always feared they would judge her.
In time we spoke more to each other, and I came to see that she hardly knew who she was, I could see that she had been hurt alot in Her life.
What many had seen as her being the one doing wrong, was really a person who had been terribly wronged.
Saddly she moved shortly after we had started to get to know each other.
But it opened my eyes to what one can percieve as being bad, may more often simply be the person being very afraid, not even aware of how they seem to others.
That is why it is one thing to judge the action, but only Jesus can judge the heart.

If we always look first to Jesus, He will help us in what we need to do.

in Jesus, God bless.
pickles

wakeup · Jun 5, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Discernment versus Judgement

what is the difference? does either action go against God? lots of people say don't judge others but what does that really mean? You should allow unjust people to continue hurting and maiming others? you shouldn't call them out for it? We are to be God's hands and feet, how is that possible if we don't discern what is good and what is bad?

1 Kings 3:8-10

New King James Version (NKJV)

8 And Your servant is in the midst of Your people whom You have chosen, a great people, too numerous to be numbered or counted. 9 Therefore give to Your servant an understanding heart to judge Your people, that I may discern between good and evil. For who is able to judge this great people of Yours?”
10 The speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.

Judge by the word,always use scripture to judge,not your own judgement.

journey41 · Jun 5, 2011

pickles said:

journey41 said:

[/QUOTE]Absolutely pickles. I have done it too in the past..Many years ago I worked for a church office. I did not belong to that church but just worked alongside the accountants. It was a big flash office for a very big wealthy church who owned half of our city's land and commecial properties. I would personally bank millions of dollars daily with guards escorting me to the bank (the office girls!) On my first day I was so nervous because the girls there were not friendly. They seemed stuck-up so to speak and didn't make me feel welcome. I sat in the lunch room, and there was silence, about four girls staring at me. I had a pie to eat for lunch. I tried to put some sauce on it from the packet and when I squeezed it, it splurted out at me and went on my brand new crisp clean white shirt and on my hair. No one laughed. They just stared. I felt like crying...I didn't like those girls for a while....but after a while I broke through to them. They were the nicest girls I'd ever met. I will always have fond memories of them, and often laugh about my first day. I realised later they were scared for their jobs....In my experience, I have found the reserved weired types to be the best! Maybe I'm weired too?

AnandaHya · Jun 5, 2011

pickles said:

journey41 said:

In our Bible study we are doing now one of the main ideas is "hurt people hurt people" It is amazing what acceptance and nonjudgmental/unconditional love can do to people. I think God calls us to be friends first to our brethren and to develop a loving relationship before criticizing actions and personal things.

However when discussing ideas about the world/universe or theology or prophecy it should all line up with what God teaches in the Bible. If it does not we should warn each other of it, but not think the person talking is condemned. God may show them the truth later and they can be saved, because we are only saved through the grace of God to begin with.

I found it interesting that the Greek has three words for different types of Judgement but we only have one.

pickles · Jun 6, 2011

journey41 said:

pickles said:

[/QUOTE]Absolutely pickles. I have done it too in the past..Many years ago I worked for a church office. I did not belong to that church but just worked alongside the accountants. It was a big flash office for a very big wealthy church who owned half of our city's land and commecial properties. I would personally bank millions of dollars daily with guards escorting me to the bank (the office girls!) On my first day I was so nervous because the girls there were not friendly. They seemed stuck-up so to speak and didn't make me feel welcome. I sat in the lunch room, and there was silence, about four girls staring at me. I had a pie to eat for lunch. I tried to put some sauce on it from the packet and when I squeezed it, it splurted out at me and went on my brand new crisp clean white shirt and on my hair. No one laughed. They just stared. I felt like crying...I didn't like those girls for a while....but after a while I broke through to them. They were the nicest girls I'd ever met. I will always have fond memories of them, and often laugh about my first day. I realised later they were scared for their jobs....In my experience, I have found the reserved weired types to be the best! Maybe I'm weired too?

Definately not weird, if weird,the nice way!

I agree, sometimes the ones that are hardest to crack, can be some of the nicest.

In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

pickles · Jun 6, 2011

AnandaHya said:

pickles said:

I didnt know that about the greek, please share if you can.

I know Id enjoy considering this.
So true about judgement, the one thing one should always keep close in heart, is that Jesus died for the other person sins, just as He died for ones own.
Often, remebering ones own weakness, and the love one recieved from Jesus, then knowing this is also given to another and all, keeps one humbled when looking at another.

You are so right on , all should lead to Jesus!

God bless.
pickles

AnandaHya · Jun 6, 2011

i didn't either Pickles

I don't know Greek, but I've learned a little bit of Latin. I'll post what I find out but the words listed on an article that translate as "judgement" are

Anakrino - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version

Anakrino
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
an-ak-ree'-no Verb
Definition
examine or judge
to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinise, sift, question
specifically in a forensic sense of a judge to hold an investigation
to interrogate, examine the accused or witnesses
to judge of, estimate, determine (the excellence or defects of any person or thing

King James Word Usage - Total: 16
examine 6, judge 6, ask question 2, search 1, discern 1

Krino
to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose to approve, esteem, to prefer to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion to determine, resolve, decree to judge to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others to rule, govern to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment to contend together, of warriors and combatants to dispute in a forensic sense to go to law, have suit at law

Diakrisis
a distinguishing, discerning, judging

Diakrino
to separate, make a distinction, discriminate, to prefer to learn by discrimination, to try, decide to determine, give judgment, decide a dispute to withdraw from one, desert to separate one's self in a hostile spirit, to oppose, strive with dispute, contend to be at variance with one's self, hesitate, doubt

pickles · Jun 6, 2011

Thankyou Ananda,
I wish I could remember the full teaching.
But I heard someone speak about how satan, is really based in the word or words meaning to accuse, condemn.
I should have written it down when I heard it, as it brought much to understanding.

Thankyou for bringing this understanding.

In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

AnandaHya · Jun 6, 2011

it seems to me that Anakrino is before judgment when you are investigating the matter. Krino is when you decide upon the matter, and Dikrino is your actions based on that decision. Diakrisis looks like an adverb or adjective describing the situation. we could look at the scriptures were each is used and see if it helps...

Anakrino: ( this seems to be more about spiritual discernment, what do you think?)

1 Corinthians 10:25
New King James Version (NKJV)
25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience’ sake;

1 Corinthians 10:27
New King James Version (NKJV)
27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake.

Do not ask questions for conscience sake before eating meat:
Anakrino_
1Corinthians 10:25, 27

The Lord makes the final examination:
Anakrino_
1Corinthians 4:3, 4

1 Corinthians 4:3-4
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court.[a] In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

When the church prophesies properly, an unbeliever will be called to account:
Anakrino_
1Corinthians 14:24
New King James Version (NKJV)
24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.

To examine in order to make an appraisal:
Anakrino_
Luke 23:14, Acts 12:19, Acts 17:11, Acts 24:8, Acts 28:18, 1Corinthians 2:14, 15, 1Corinthians 9:3

Luke 23:14
New King James Version (NKJV)
14 said to them, “You have brought this Man to me, as one who misleads the people. And indeed, having examined Him in your presence, I have found no fault in this Man concerning those things of which you accuse Him;

Acts 12:19
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 But when Herod had searched for him and not found him, he examined the guards and commanded that they should be put to death.
And he went down from Judea to Caesarea, and stayed there.

Acts 17:11
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.

Acts 28:18
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 who, when they had examined me, wanted to let me go, because there was no cause for putting me to death
Acts 24:8
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 commanding his accusers to come to you. By examining him yourself you may ascertain all these things of which we accuse him.”
1 Corinthians 2:14-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

1 Corinthians 9:3-8
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4 Do we have no right to eat and drink? 5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? 6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working?

AnandaHya · Jun 6, 2011

pickles said:

that would be an interesting study. if you remember any more of it I'd like to hear it

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