Discussion on Faith

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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
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#1
Part 1 Article "Faith of God"

Without faith it’s impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6), so our relationship with the Lord is dependent on it. Faith is what brings the things God has provided for us from the spiritual realm into the physical realm (Heb. 11:1). Our faith is the victory that enables us to overcome the world (1 John 5:4). Everything the Lord does for us is accessed through faith.



Yet there is much confusion about faith today just as there has always been. It’s like having a computer and knowing its potential but not having a clue how to use it. Many of us know how frustrating that is.

The Bible is our manual with detailed instructions, but just like in the natural, few people take the time to really study it. They are impatient and want to do it on their own. They may reach some level of success, but to really be proficient, they have to read the book.


One of the areas about faith that gives people the most trouble is the concept that we have to acquire more faith and that some people have much faith, while others have virtually none. We spend a lot of effort, like a dog chasing its tail, trying to get something we already have. Every born-again Christian already has the same quality and quantity of faith that Jesus has. That’s awesome!


In Ephesians 2:8, Paul says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” It’s God’s grace that saves us, but not His grace alone. If that were so, then everyone would be saved because God’s grace has come to all men (Tit. 2:11).


We have to put faith in God’s grace, but the faith that we use isn’t our own human faith. This verse says that faith is the gift of God.


There is a human faith that is inherent within every human being, and there is a supernatural faith of God that only comes to those who receive the good news.


Human faith can only believe what it can see, taste, hear, smell, or feel; it’s limited to the five senses. Using natural human faith, we can sit in a chair we’ve never sat in and believe it will hold us up. We fly in airplanes when we don’t fully understand how they work, and we don’t know the pilot, but we trust that everything will be okay. That takes human faith, which God gave to every person.



What if I asked you to sit in a chair you couldn’t see? Or what if the chair was missing one of its legs and was falling over? You wouldn’t sit in a chair like that with human faith.


Would you fly in a plane if you could see that the engine was falling off or the tires were flat? Your senses would forbid it.


Yet when it comes to God, we have to believe things that we cannot see. You haven’t seen God or the devil. You haven’t seen heaven or hell. You haven’t seen sin; therefore, you wouldn’t know what you would look like if your sins were taken away. However, you have to believe in all these things to be born again. How can you believe in things you can’t see? The answer is that you can’t believe in invisible things with human faith. You need God’s supernatural faith.



Romans 4:17 says, “God … calleth those things which be not as though they were.” God’s faith goes beyond sight. God’s faith operates supernaturally, beyond the limitations of our natural faith.



The context of this verse from Romans speaks about how God supernaturally blessed Abram and Sarai with a child in their old age. Abram was 100 and Sarai was 91 when Isaac was born. The year before Isaac’s birth, when Abram still did not have a child by his wife, God told them the child was coming, and He changed Abram’s name to Abraham and Sarai’s name to Sarah.

Abram meant “high father,” but Abraham means, “to be populous, father of a multitude.” God changed Abram’s name and called him the father of a multitude before it came to pass. Romans 4:17 explains this action by saying that “God calleth those things which be not as though they were.”



When the Lord created the universe, Genesis 1:3 tells us that He created light on the first day but didn’t create the sun, moon, and stars until the fourth day of creation (Gen. 1:14-19). The Lord called light into being first and four days later created a source for the light to come from. That’s not the way natural man does things. We are limited, but God calls things that are not as though they were. That’s supernatural.



That’s the kind of faith we have to use to receive salvation. We have to believe in God, whom we have not seen, and believe that our sins are forgiven, which we cannot prove by natural means. It takes God’s supernatural faith to receive salvation. Where do we get it from? We get it from God’s Word.



Romans 10:17 says, “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” We access God’s faith through His Word.



When we hear God’s Word, the Holy Spirit empowers it, and if we receive the truth, God’s supernatural faith enters us. We were so destitute that we couldn’t even believe the good news on our own. God had to make His kind of faith available to us so that we could believe in Him and receive His salvation. We were saved by using God’s supernatural faith to receive His grace.



Once we receive God’s supernatural faith at salvation, it doesn’t leave us. Galatians 5:22-23 says, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law” (emphasis mine). Faith becomes a permanent part of our born-again spirits.


We sometimes use the God kind of faith that’s present in our spirits and other times we don’t. The truth is, it is always present. There is no lack of faith within any true Christian. There is just a lack of knowing and using what God has already given us.

 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#2
Without faith it’s impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6), so our relationship with the Lord is dependent on it. Faith is what brings the things God has provided for us from the spiritual realm into the physical realm (Heb. 11:1). Our faith is the victory that enables us to overcome the world (1 John 5:4). Everything the Lord does for us is accessed through faith.


Yet there is much confusion about faith today just as there has always been. It’s like having a computer and knowing its potential but not having a clue how to use it. Many of us know how frustrating that is
.

The bible uses the word faith in respect to that of theperson Christ. You could say its not up for grabs in respect to oneself.

The faith of Christ, the imputed righteousness which is of God by faith: Those who know not Christ are considered a froward nation, the nation of natural unconverted man accredited with no faith, also calledthe evil generation as those who require a sign before they will believe.(dead works)


Faith does notcome from the imaginations of one own deceitful heart.


Deuteronomy 32:20
And he said, I will hide my face fromthem, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very frowardgeneration, children in whom is no faith


The faith that works in us by which we can believe Him asour first love of knowing God not seen is assigned to the faith of God. No mancould please God not seen without it His faith) ,as it is written working in us to bothwill and do His good pleasure.(a imputed righteousness not of our own self but a gift according to His three day labor of love )


Many say God does not need faith and accredit the gift of faith to their own self. In doing so they blaspheme the Holy name (authority)by which we are called heavenward as the better thing that does accompany oursalvation, real redemption and not a kick start placing a person in the garden of Eden before mankind violated theunseen love of God as the forward nation (no faith)and did the pleasure of thefather of lies who spoke through a creature seen instant gratification (no faith)


Makes me wonder when he does come on the last day will he find the faith of Christ, as the same spirit of faith as it is written or like in the days of Noah everyone doing evil as the evil generation after the imaginations of their own hearts (no faith) Faith is a work attached to aperson .

When reading Hebrews 11 it must be applied to the faith of God Through the faith of Christ, the faith of God by his labor of love working we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things whichare seen were not made of things which do appear.


Luke18:8I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when theSon of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
.

 
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Mar 23, 2016
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#3
One of the areas about faith that gives people the most trouble is the concept that we have to acquire more faith and that some people have much faith, while others have virtually none.
I do not believe one person has "more" faith than any other person. I believe all are given the same "portion" or "amount" of faith.

The reason some people seem to have "more" (or some seem to have "less") faith than others is not due to God having given "more" or "less". It has to do with what one has done with the faith he or she has been given.

If one has not squelched what has been given, faith can become strong.

On the other hand, if one has not utilized what has been given, faith can become weak.

It is the same amount of faith in all, it’s just that faith is either "weak" or "strong" based upon how that faith has been put to use in the life of the person.

Do we allow the faith God has given to atrophy and become weak, almost to the point of being nonexistent? Or does that faith God has given become strong?

As has been pointed out faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17). When someone speaks God's Word to us, do we "hear" to the point where that Word of God reaches our hearts where God brings increase?

Or when someone speaks God's Word to us, do we "hear" and then restrain the Word from reaching our hearts as those spoken of in Rom 1:18 (those who hold the truth [restrain the truth] in unrighteousness)?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,429
12,912
113
#4
Part 1 Article "Faith of God"
JM, at the very least you owe readers the courtesy of disclosing who wrote this article. It would appear that this is not your article, and if it is, then that too should be disclosed. In any event, this post is full of doctrinal errors, and is probably derived from one of your false teachers.

ERROR #1
Every born-again Christian already has the same quality and quantity of faith that Jesus has. That’s awesome!
Where does the Bible say that God has faith in Himself, or Jesus has faith in Himself?

ERROR #2
We have to put faith in God’s grace, but the faith that we use isn’t our own human faith. This verse says that faith is the gift of God.
Actually three errors right here.

1. Sinners do not (or must not) put their faith in “God’s grace” but in God Himself, in Christ Himself, and above all in the finished work of Christ for our salvation – His death, burial and resurrection. As the old hymn says "My faith is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness".

2. The Gospel (along with the Holy Spirit) generates faith in the heart of the sinner. As Scripture says “Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God” (Rom 10:17). So it is our faith produced in our hearts through the supernatural action of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit. Paul says that the Gospel is the “power of God unto salvation” (Rom 1:16).

3. Ephesians 2:8 says that salvation (eternal life) is the gift of God to the sinner who believes, not that faith is the gift of God. If faith were the gift of God, and God desires all men to be saved, then everyone would receive faith as the gift of God, and all would be saved. Given the fact that not all are saved, this is false. And this is what is being taught here.

ERROR #3

There is a human faith that is inherent within every human being, and there is a supernatural faith of God that only comes to those who receive the good news.
Already addressed above.

ERROR #4
You haven’t seen sin; therefore, you wouldn’t know what you would look like if your sins were taken away.
Since sinners sin every day, they see sin every day. So another false statement. And to say “you wouldn’t know what you would look like if your sins were taken away” is TOTAL NONSENSE. The forgiveness of sins and the cleansing of the soul by the blood of Christ are internal and spiritual. No one “sees” this, but sinners experience this.

ERROR #5
It takes God’s supernatural faith to receive salvation. Where do we get it from? We get it from God’s Word.
First the writer says that it is supernatural faith received as a gift from God, but now the writer says “We get it from God’s Word”. This is self-contradictory indicates that this person is not really clear about saving faith. Yes, because saving faith is generated by hearing the Gospel, it is not a supernatural gift. We are not discussing the gifts of the Spirit.


ERROR #6
When we hear God’s Word, the Holy Spirit empowers it, and if we receive the truth, God’s supernatural faith enters us.
The Bible does NOT say that any sinner receives “supernatural faith”. What the Bible does teach is that the power of the Gospel is supernatural (since God’s Word is a living Word) and the power of the Holy Spirit is supernatural (since He is God). These two supernatural *agents* work together on sinners when the Gospel preached, and thus sinners believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
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#5
Part 2 Article "Faith of God"

Romans 12:3 says, “God hath dealt to every man THE measure of faith” (emphasis mine). God didn’t give us different measures of faith; we all received THE measure of faith. If I were serving soup to a lot of people, and if I used the same ladle to dish it out, then that ladle would be THE measure. Everyone would get the same amount of soup because I would use the same measure. That’s the way it is with God’s faith. He only used one measure. All born-again Christians received the same amount of faith.


That’s what the Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 1:1; “Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.”


The Greek word that was translated “like precious” in this verse is “isotimos,” which means “of equal value or honor.” We have the same faith that Peter used when he raised Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9:36-42) and when he made people whole by touching them with just his shadow (Acts 5:15).



We also have the same faith that Paul had. Paul said in Galatians 2:20, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”


Paul did not say that he lived by faith IN the Son of God but by the faith OF the Son of God. The measure of faith that Paul had was the same measure that Jesus had. It was Jesus’ faith. If there is only one measure of faith (Rom. 12:3), then we also have the faith of Jesus.



We have the same quantity and quality of faith that Jesus has; therefore, we can do the same works that Jesus did, if we receive this truth and begin to use what we have (John 14:12). Because many Christians have not understood this, they have spent their time asking for faith or for more faith. How is God going to answer a prayer like that?



If I gave you my Bible and then you turned around and asked me for my Bible, what could I do? I would probably stand there in silence while I tried to figure out what was wrong with you. That’s the reason there isn’t an answer when we beseech the Lord for more faith. We already have the same faith Jesus has.



Our Lord did say that He had never seen such great faith as the centurion manifested (Matt. 8:10), and He also spoke of His disciple’s little faith (Matt. 8:26), but He was speaking about how much faith He saw. None of us use all the faith we’ve been given.



In that sense, some do have more faith than others, but technically, it is more faith that is being exhibited or that is functional. We all have been given THE measure of faith.



This is a major truth that will totally change your attitude and the results that your faith produces. Most people don’t doubt that faith works. They just doubt that they have enough faith to get the job done.


If Satan can blind you to this truth, then he can keep you from using the faith you have. Understanding this truth will radically change things.



Philemon 1:6 says, “that the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.” Notice that Paul isn’t praying that Philemon will get something more from the Lord.

He was praying that his faith would begin to work as he acknowledged what he already had. The word “acknowledge” means, “to admit, recognize, or report the receipt of.” You can only acknowledge something that you already have. We already have the faith of God, and it will begin to work when we acknowledge this.



The more you know about faith and how it works, the better it will work for you. If all you knew was that you have the same faith Jesus has, then that would remove hopelessness and motivate you. People would eventually see results if they just kept trying, but they give up easily because they believe they don’t have what it takes. That is not true. The Lord has given us everything we need, including all the faith we need. We just need to acknowledge what we have and begin to learn the laws that govern the operation of God’s faith.




Andrew Wommack
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#6
.

The bible uses the word faith in respect to that of theperson Christ. You could say its not up for grabs in respect to oneself.

The faith of Christ, the imputed righteousness which is of God by faith: Those who know not Christ are considered a froward nation, the nation of natural unconverted man accredited with no faith, also calledthe evil generation as those who require a sign before they will believe.(dead works)


Faith does notcome from the imaginations of one own deceitful heart.


Deuteronomy 32:20
And he said, I will hide my face fromthem, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very frowardgeneration, children in whom is no faith


The faith that works in us by which we can believe Him asour first love of knowing God not seen is assigned to the faith of God. No mancould please God not seen without it His faith) ,as it is written working in us to bothwill and do His good pleasure.(a imputed righteousness not of our own self but a gift according to His three day labor of love )


Many say God does not need faith and accredit the gift of faith to their own self. In doing so they blaspheme the Holy name (authority)by which we are called heavenward as the better thing that does accompany oursalvation, real redemption and not a kick start placing a person in the garden of Eden before mankind violated theunseen love of God as the forward nation (no faith)and did the pleasure of thefather of lies who spoke through a creature seen instant gratification (no faith)


Makes me wonder when he does come on the last day will he find the faith of Christ, as the same spirit of faith as it is written or like in the days of Noah everyone doing evil as the evil generation after the imaginations of their own hearts (no faith) Faith is a work attached to aperson .

When reading Hebrews 11 it must be applied to the faith of God Through the faith of Christ, the faith of God by his labor of love working we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things whichare seen were not made of things which do appear.


Luke18:8I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when theSon of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
.


I agree with Andrew W. about faith being a gift we recieve at the time of our salvation. That we grow up into it and learn to use it. It has to do with having these gifts in seed form IMO.

The Bible says to "work out your own salvation" I believe that has to do with working OUT what Christ has already worked IN us. Taking that seed of faith as it were and using the Word of God to water and grow it into maturity. This leaves me with much hope for each day.

There is a lot to this article for me and I had to read it many times and still do to see what is being said. Of course this is just one man's opinion but again., I'm in agreement with his interpretation here. I found the article in my email today and thought it was a good reminder about how we already have these gifts and need to work them out.

Asking God for more faith IMO would be better stated to ask "Lord help me to use the faith you have given me., Teach me how to walk in the faith Jesus died to give me. Amen
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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#7
Since the verse wherein it is written that it is impossible to please God without faith continues with that he that comes to God must believe he is. Then if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God then is it written that have faith in all things? Nope. It is written Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. (See 1 Cor 13:7)

So for one to come to God they must believe he is, then what is the reward for the believer who diligently seek him?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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#8
I do not believe one person has "more" faith than any other person. I believe all are given the same "portion" or "amount" of faith.
Then if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God then who made the hearing ear and the seeing eye?

(See Proverbs 20:12)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,037
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#9
Since the verse wherein it is written that it is impossible to please God without faith continues with that he that comes to God must believe he is. Then if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God then is it written that have faith in all things? Nope. It is written Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. (See 1 Cor 13:7)

So for one to come to God they must believe he is, then what is the reward for the believer who diligently seek him?
Knowledge through the revelation of Jesus Christ, of His sacrifice on your behalf, due to His great love for you, that you may be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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#10
Knowledge through the revelation of Jesus Christ, of His sacrifice on your behalf, due to His great love for you, that you may be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after.
Yet it is revealed by Jesus Christ in John 5:25;


Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Acts 9:1-4
9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,037
113
#11
Yet it is revealed by Jesus Christ in John 5:25;

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Acts 9:1-4
9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Yes, in the flesh, you are as dead to God, born of Adam, of the flesh, which counts for nothing, for you must be born again. This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, (1 Tim 2:3-5)

Ezekiel 18:23
"Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:32
"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."

Ezekiel 33:11
"Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'

John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#12
I agree with Andrew W. about faith being a gift we recieve at the time of our salvation.
I am not sure what you are saying.

What comes first to our lifes, faith or salvation?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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#13

Ezekiel 18:23
"Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:32
"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."

Ezekiel 33:11
"Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;


19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days:


Deuteronomy 30
 
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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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#14
I am not sure what you are saying.

What comes first to our lifes, faith or salvation?
I believe that when we have Jesus we are given all things pertaining to life and Godliness.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#17
By the Holy Ghost ;)

"...: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. " Matt 1:20
Either we get Jesus by faith or we get faith by Jesus.

I am not sure what the OP author thinks about this.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#19
Romans 12:3 says, “God hath dealt to every man THE measure of faith” (emphasis mine). God didn’t give us different measures of faith; we all received THE measure of faith. If I were serving soup to a lot of people, and if I used the same ladle to dish it out, then that ladle would be THE measure. Everyone would get the same amount of soup because I would use the same measure. That’s the way it is with God’s faith. He only used one measure. All born-again Christians received the same amount of faith.
There is no definite article (THE) in Romans 12:3 in the Greek. It reads "A measure of faith". So his entire premise for part 2 is wrong.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
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#20
It is Both not one or the other.
If we get Jesus by faith then we can't get faith by Jesus. Likewise if we get faith by Jesus we can't get Jesus by faith.

So it can't be both, and likewise it can't be neither, but faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God is only revealed by the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you (See Matthew 10:20)
 
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