Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

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Miri

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2012
8,054
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UK age 50
#41
The covenants are important, maybe a way of looking at it would be

Old Covenant and a revealed final covenant.

The new is in the Old, concealed.
The Old is in the new, revealed.

Both need to be understand to see what an amazing work God has done.

Its certainly true that God choose the Hebrews (Jews) to bring about His will
and purpose. Blessed are the Jews who fully realised this and started the
early churches in the New Testament.

As for the rest of us, we were not left out, it was always intended for Gentiles to
be grafted into the New Covenant. Romans 11.
 

Miri

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2012
8,054
906
113
UK age 50
#42
Hi Blik I would say in answer to your thread question, it isn’t a new
religion. It always was God’s solution to reconcile mankind to himself.
It took a long time to work out as we measure time, but not as God
measures time.

The time it took was necessary, it’s an epic story spanning centuries, a
tale of two halves.

Yes we call it christisnity, but it was always a work in process from the start.


Romans 5:6 NKJV
[6] For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.


Romans 5:6 NLT
[6] When we were utterly helpless, Christ came at just the right time and died
for us sinners.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,946
647
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#43
The OP's intent is not clearly stated in the opening post, but I suspect sabbath keeping is in mind when it was posted.
You've hit the nail on the head.

Well just for the record, the first day of the week in now the Christian sabbath. So Christians who rest and worship in Spirit and in truth on that day are fulfilling the sabbath-day requirement.

Christ arose on THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH (First Fruits) and the Church was also established on THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH (Pentecost).

As many Christians have recognized over the ages, the eighth day signifies a New Creation just as the first day signified the First Creation.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
12,838
628
113
#44
This is supposed to be an In Christ discussion of the Word yet

Many here do not believe Jesus when He teaches us He did not come to destroy the law.

Equally these same people tend to say that when Jesus teaches He came to fulfill it
this means it is abolished. Why would God say such things contrary to each other in the same
speaking?

Some say we are "saved from the la" not having a clue that we are saved not from the law rather
from the curse of the law.

Many say obedience is being under tha law, whatever they mean by that. How can any of us be under
any law when we know and confess freely that we are sae by grace..however we all would be complete ingrates were we
to use mercy and grace, that is the Blood of the Lamb of God, as license to teach agains the laws as

Jesus Christ has clarified them.

These people, masquerading as teachers of grace do not even know the difference Christ has made in His
explanation of the Law today; one of their most sage accusations is that we do not need to follow the 611
laws of the Torah, not realizing that most have been fulfilled by our Lord leaving only the laws tha fit into the Two Greatg Laws.

These folks say Love Love but do not have a clue as to what they are saying, you see Love only has one syllable, and
one does not need understand Jesus Christ's teachigs if he claims it over and over without knowledge..it is the OSAS
syndrome that has no place when we know to obey Jesus Christ and NEVER teach against the laws.

You see the law is being fulfilled in me by Jesus Christ. I know this. I feel this and I sense it in me and in all who share Jesus Christ in spirit and truth. These people will balk if you say you may call Jesus,, Father HOly Spirit, Only Son of the Living God anad so much more.

Why all of this lack of knowing the Word, concensus fo these folks with others who agree with each other
attempting to change what God has said by their blessed consensus.

Let us worship God and praise Him for He only is worthy,.

I want all in these forums to dwell in the Presence of our Holy Father in His Kingdom forever, but never at the expense of betrying what I have been taught as true from Jesus Christ, Yeshua.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
329
83
#45
The reason the church became "Gentile dominated" is because after a while there were more in the nations coming to Christ than Jews/Israelites.
And that gave them the right to nominate their own worship-day ? They were supposed to ''turn to the Lord the God of ISRAEL....not set up their own religion ! but being ignorant they thought they could 'manipulate the God of Israel just as they used their pagan gods. It takes 'humility and submission to follow the True God....something christian gentiles refuse to do, being stubborn and disobedient ! time is running out for them !
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#46
In Jeremiah 31:31 we are told God will make a new covenant, a new covenant with Israel not with the gentiles.

Gentiles speak of a new covenant as if it is if it is with them and it wipes out Old Testament scripture.
Scripture tells us God is eternal. If God is eternal and tells us of eternal principles a new covenant would add t0, not wipe out.
God did make a new covenant with his people. The old covenant was a contract between God and Man. Man failed. The new covenant is between God the Father and God the Son. It cannot fail, because Man was covered with Jesus' blood.

He made a covenant for his people. If we are his people, his covenant stays sound because he is God.

And, we are not.

We are his people. (At least, I hope we are his people.)
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#47
The Mosaic Covenant tells Israel how God created the world to work well for humans, it is a contract promising blessings to result from actions it defines. The new covenant adds to that, giving us a knowledge of what of our actions bring about the blessings put in our hearts through and Holy Spirit and giving us Christ for our repentance and forgiveness from sin.

Hebrews were established to show us God, we are adopted into Israel. God does not make it rain on only Jews leaving gentiles dry, it rains on both. Hebrews were given a special blessings because God used them for our benefit, but God is our Father as well as the Father of Israel.
The world was created well for God's people. There was a contract between God and people. And people broke it each and every time. Not God! People. So God made the same contract, but the two sides of the contract changed. Used to be the two sides were God on one side, and people on the other. God kept his end. People did not.

So God liked the contract enough, (after all, it is perfect), and changed the two sides of the bargain. One side is God the Father. The other side is God the Son. And in that his people are saved!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#48
Why do you say "must abide"?

If you choose to abide by how the Lord who created you and saved you tells you because you love the Lord and know it works best to follow Him would you put on a long face saying I must abide?

Paul was an observant Jew. He never instructed anyone to rebel against the Father, ignore His guidance and blessings God promised.
Let's get real. Do you abide... all the time? And understand, "abide" means keeping the Law perfectly. And Jesus summed the Law perfectly in love God with your whole being, and others as yourself. Have you done that perfectly?

And although you don't know me too well, (I'm the one who started a group on here that you were invited to join recently, because you have friends on here who love you enough to pray for you and worry when they don't see you for a while), I do know you well enough to know a bit of what your going through now. Tell me you haven't gotten annoyed with those who are supposed to be helping you, but don't help. Tell me, you haven't gotten annoyed with the help they do give. (Because help comes whether you rather be sleeping than be helped. lol) Tell me you don't get a bit annoyed waiting for your time online.

We may well want to abide in the Lord, however there are times in our lives when patience leaves, and grudge takes over. There are times we feel quite a bit for other people, but the feeling is not love. And there are times when we even get a bit peeved at the Lord himself for taking away what we know we used to be able to do with great easy, and now we can't do it even with great difficulty. And the things aren't like painting pictures or dancing a jig. They're things most people take for granted, like leaning over without pain or falling. Or taking stairs. Or just going outside to see flowers.

We may want to abide, but what we want to do isn't always what we really do. So, if "abiding" is the tests for our meddle on being saved, we lost that quite soon after we got it.

Which gets me back to the old contract (covenant) was between God and Man. And when Man failed the grade, God loved enough to make the new contract be between himself and himself... FOR our sake! And HIS glory!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#49
If we are meant to follow the Old Covenant how come God prevented us by allowing the Temple to be destroyed in AD70? Fact is that no one has followed it since that date including the Jews.
Our inability to keep the old covenant isn't validity in that it was a bad covenant. It's proof we can't do what God wants us to do. It's proof he's the temple! He saves us from ourselves.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#50
If you mean be following the old covenant to use the innocent blood of animals for salvation as a symbol of Christ after we have Christ, that does not make sense. It does not follow scripture.

What actually happened was that in 70 and 132 the Romans killed off so many Christian Jews who had served as leaders of the Christians that gentiles took over leadership. The church under Jews was called the Way and they believed that all God the Father said was correct. They followed God's guidance. The gentiles got following God all mixed up with what they had learned about a God so they Christianized what they knew. Sun worshipers like Constantine had always gone o their church on Sunday, so they found Christ was discovered to by risen on Sunday and they changed what God had decreed to that day. The church that was established by Christ and that established by such as Origen, Clement, or Constantine where very different. The church today follows the early fathers, not the Way as Christ's apostles established it.

The Jews have been blinded to Christ. They have much to learn about God's grace, yet their culture is one that does its best to be obedient--something gentiles don't pretend even to try for. Statistics tell us that their obedience pays off in wealth, education and brains.
You can't lump all Jews together. The Jews I've known were atheists and rich! (I worked for them. lol) Peter, Paul, and the gang were Jews who were saved and poor.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#51
The old covenant is nothing but a prophesy/a promise; normally, a prophesy is not supposed to be kept but fulfilled- The new covenant is the fulfillment of the old covenant. It is fulfilled through us by the way of Christ.
The Old Covenant IS God's word! Do not call it nothing!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#52
The OP's intent is not clearly stated in the opening post, but I suspect sabbath keeping is in mind when it was posted.
Nope. Not that.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
329
83
#53
The covenants are important, maybe a way of looking at it would be

Old Covenant and a revealed final covenant.

The new is in the Old, concealed.
The Old is in the new, revealed.

Both need to be understand to see what an amazing work God has done.

Its certainly true that God choose the Hebrews (Jews) to bring about His will
and purpose. Blessed are the Jews who fully realised this and started the
early churches in the New Testament.

As for the rest of us, we were not left out, it was always intended for Gentiles to
be grafted into the New Covenant. Romans 11.
Yes graftd in if they convert and ''turn to the Lord'....not if they start their own sunday-worship. God only has one holy day !
 

Miri

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2012
8,054
906
113
UK age 50
#54
Yes graftd in if they convert and ''turn to the Lord'....not if they start their own sunday-worship. God only has one holy day !

I guess they had the same questions back then as well.


Romans 14:5-9 NKJV
[5] One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike.
Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. [6] He who observes the day, observes
it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe
it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does
not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

[7] For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. [8] For if we live,
we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live
or die, we are the Lord's. [9] For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again,
that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,946
647
113
#55
Yes graftd in if they convert and ''turn to the Lord'....not if they start their own sunday-worship. God only has one holy day !
And you believe you become more holy by rejecting and mocking the Lord's Day (which is the first day of the week and only happens to be called "Sunday" because every day of the week is connected with pagan gods, ever since calendars came into existence). Christians worship the Son, not the sun.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
329
83
#56
I guess they had the same questions back then as well.


Romans 14:5-9 NKJV
[5] One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike.
Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. [6] He who observes the day, observes
it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe
it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does
not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

[7] For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. [8] For if we live,
we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live
or die, we are the Lord's. [9] For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again,
that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
And you think Paul is telling us to do the same SOME people were doing, picking their own day according to their own estimation ??? He was simply stating what some people were doing, not instructing us to do the same.
What he is clearly saying is ''be you followers of me as I also follow Christ 1Cor 11v1 !!!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
451
74
28
#57
8
Let's get real. Do you abide... all the time? And understand, "abide" means keeping the Law perfectly. And Jesus summed the Law perfectly in love God with your whole being, and others as yourself. Have you done that perfectly?

And although you don't know me too well, (I'm the one who started a group on here that you were invited to join recently, because you have friends on here who love you enough to pray for you and worry when they don't see you for a while), I do know you well enough to know a bit of what your going through now. Tell me you haven't gotten annoyed with those who are supposed to be helping you, but don't help. Tell me, you haven't gotten annoyed with the help they do give. (Because help comes whether you rather be sleeping than be helped. lol) Tell me you don't get a bit annoyed waiting for your time online.

We may well want to abide in the Lord, however there are times in our lives when patience leaves, and grudge takes over. There are times we feel quite a bit for other people, but the feeling is not love. And there are times when we even get a bit peeved at the Lord himself for taking away what we know we used to be able to do with great easy, and now we can't do it even with great difficulty. And the things aren't like painting pictures or dancing a jig. They're things most people take for granted, like leaning over without pain or falling. Or taking stairs. Or just going outside to see flowers.

We may want to abide, but what we want to do isn't always what we really do. So, if "abiding" is the tests for our meddle on being saved, we lost that quite soon after we got it.

Which gets me back to the old contract (covenant) was between God and Man. And when Man failed the grade, God loved enough to make the new contract be between himself and himself... FOR our sake! And HIS glory!
Thanks so much for inviting me. I so wish I wasn't living in a body so old it wants to sleep away some days. 'There is nothing more wonderful to do than visit with others and God.

Have you studied the scripture that states the covenants. The Mosiatic covenant simply says that if you obey me I will bless you. We know that breaking a law--even the secular ones--brings on a curse.
I so agree that because we live in the world that knows sin it is impossible for us to "abide" in the Lord when the meaning of that is that we can be sinless.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
451
74
28
#58
And you believe you become more holy by rejecting and mocking the Lord's Day (which is the first day of the week and only happens to be called "Sunday" because every day of the week is connected with pagan gods, ever since calendars came into existence). Christians worship the Son, not the sun.
No scripture tells u the Sabbath is the first day. There IS scripture telling us that for all the days of the week except the last day of the week we are to work but to rst on the last day. Scripture doesn't even tell us Christ rose on the first day, it tells us they discovered that Christ had risen on that day and some said that is the Christian reason they decided to change scripture.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,946
647
113
#59
No scripture tells u the Sabbath is the first day. There IS scripture telling us that for all the days of the week except the last day of the week we are to work but to rest on the last day.
If you wish to have two days of rest, that is your prerogative. The sabbath was given specifically to ISRAEL as their day of rest and worship, and the Lord's Day was given specifically to the CHURCH as its day of rest and worship. So if you are in the Body of Christ, the Lord's Day is your true sabbath now.
Scripture doesn't even tell us Christ rose on the first day, it tells us they discovered that Christ had risen on that day and some said that is the Christian reason they decided to change scripture.
Actually Scripture does tell us that Christ arose on the first day of the week (which is the morrow after the sabbath). Christ is called "the First Fruits of them that slept" (as related to His resurrection) and the Feast of First Fruits (held on the morrow after the sabbath) was thus fulfilled in Him. The Feast of Pentecost was also held on "the morrow after the sabbath" and both of these things are very significant.

Furthermore, the New Testament Christians were already meeting on the first day of the week for rest and worship, and that too is found in Scripture. And that is because the Lord of the Sabbath arose on the Lord's Day, which was afterwards dedicated to the observance of the Lord's Supper at the Lord's Table.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
1,749
42
48
#60
If you wish to have two days of rest, that is your prerogative. The sabbath was given specifically to ISRAEL as their day of rest and worship, and the Lord's Day was given specifically to the CHURCH as its day of rest and worship. So if you are in the Body of Christ, the Lord's Day is your true sabbath now.

Actually Scripture does tell us that Christ arose on the first day of the week (which is the morrow after the sabbath). Christ is called "the First Fruits of them that slept" (as related to His resurrection) and the Feast of First Fruits (held on the morrow after the sabbath) was thus fulfilled in Him. The Feast of Pentecost was also held on "the morrow after the sabbath" and both of these things are very significant.

Furthermore, the New Testament Christians were already meeting on the first day of the week for rest and worship, and that too is found in Scripture. And that is because the Lord of the Sabbath arose on the Lord's Day, which was afterwards dedicated to the observance of the Lord's Supper at the Lord's Table.
that is tradition

this is Scriptual fact:

The sabbath was given specifically to ISRAEL as their day of rest and worship.
Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

Actually Scripture does tell us that Christ arose on the first day of the week

By all 4 accounts He had already Resurrected before the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] day/ Sunday

Matthew 28:1-6, "”But late in the sabbath, as it was dawning into day one of the week, Miryam from Maḡdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb. And see, there was a great earthquake, for a messenger of יהוה came down out of heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his garments as white as snow. And the guards trembled for fear of him, and became like dead men. And the messenger responding, said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek יהושע who was impaled. He is not here, for He was raised, as He said. Come, see the place where the Master lay.”

it was dawning into day one of the week”...“He is not here, for He was raised

Mark 16:1-6, “And when the Sabbath was past, Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Ya‛aqoḇ, and Shelomah bought spices, to go and anoint Him. And very early on day one of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who shall roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb for us?” And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, for it was extremely large. And having entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right, wearing a white robe, and they were greatly astonished. And he said to them, “Do not be much astonished. You seek יהושע of Natsareth, who was impaled. He was raised – He is not here! See the place where they laid Him.”


very early on day one of the week”...“He was raised – He is not here


Luke 24:1-3, “But on day one of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. And having entered, they did not find the body of the Master יהושע.”


on day one of the week, at early dawn”...“they did not find the body of the Master יהושע


John 20:1, “And on the first day of the week Miryam from Maḡdala came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb.”


on the first day of the week”...“the stone had been removed from the tomb


Mark 16:1-8, “And when the Sabbath was past, Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Ya‛aqoḇ, and Shelomah bought spices, to go and anoint Him. And very early on day one of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who shall roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb for us? And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, for it was extremely large. And having entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right, wearing a white robe, and they were greatly astonished. And he said to them, “Do not be much astonished. You seek יהושע of Natsareth, who was impaled. He was raised – He is not here! See the place where they laid Him. And go, say to His taught ones, and Kĕpha, that He is going before you into Galil. You shall see Him there as He said to you. And they went out and fled from the tomb, and were trembling and bewildered. And they spoke to no one, for they were afraid."


As we see here “when the Sabbath was past, Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Ya‛aqoḇ, and Shelomah bought spices, to go and anoint Him. And very early on day one of the week,.. they saw a young man sitting on the right, wearing a white robe, and they were greatly astonished. And he said to them, “Do not be much astonished. You seek יהושע of Natsareth, who was impaled. He was raised – He is not here!”


The 1[SUP]st[/SUP] day/Sunday morning Yahshua/Jesus was already risen and gone, then why does Mark say “Jesus rose early on the first day of the week” Mark 16:1-8 just said He was already resurrected and gone by then:


Mark 16:9


New International Version
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.


New Living Translation
After Jesus rose from the dead early on Sunday morning, the first person who saw him was Mary Magdalene, the woman from whom he had cast out seven demons.


English Standard Version
Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.


King James Bible
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.


Why? Because verses Mark 16:9–20 are not included in some of the earliest surviving Greek copies of Mark and have significant stylistic differences from the rest of Mark’s Gospel.


Added verse Mark 16:9, "And having risen early on the first day of the week He appeared first to Miryam from Maḡdala, from whom He had cast out seven demons.”
If v9-20 are authentic then the other 3 Gospels have it wonrg, if v9-20 are added all Gospels are in unity.


Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers; (Mark 16:9-20) Now when Jesus was risen early.—See Notes on Matthew 28:16-20. The history of the verses that follow is in every way remarkable. They are not found in two of the oldest MSS.—the Sinaitic and the Vatican—are marked as doubtful in many others, and are wanting in some versions. In some of these (e.g., in the Vatican MS.) there is a blank space left between Mark 16:8 and the beginning of St. Luke, as though the writer had suspended his work and waited for materials. The absence was noticed by Jerome, who says that “nearly all the Greek texts omit them.” Eusebius states the same fact as true of “the correct MSS.”


Scofield Reference Notes, 1917 Edition: The passage from verse 9 to the end is not found in the two most ancient manuscripts, the Sinaitic and Vatican, and others have it with partial omissions and variations. But it is quoted by Irenaeus and Hippolytus in the second or third century.