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Someone remarked that this is the first time they've heard someone object to the celebration of Christmas/Easter. The facts/exaggerations/history/whatever has been circulated around so much that now there are hundreds of interpretations. But this is what I've been told by Christian proponents against either:
For Christmas, they normally (incorrectly) quote Jeremiah 10:3-5 which is about idols, not a Christmas tree but you get the idea. Like Halloween, Christmas was the marriage between pagan rituals & festivals with Christianity. I believe someone quoted me the Constantine age (4th century BC?) though I can't remember if that's what it was or if it was something else. Christmas wasn't "Christmas" to begin with. It was the celebration of the winter solstice - the dying of the sun (the tree) and reincarnation/rebirth or something or the other (burning of the yule log). Celebrating Christ's birth is great but from what I can gather, his birth is closer to the end of September rather than December. Then of course, you have Santa Claus (the all-knowing and seemingly omnipotent jolly old man who rewards kids based on their behaviour throughout the year), Frosty the Snowman, the commercialism, and for many (probably usually not for Christians) the wild partying. Some pagan groups even lay claims that Christians "stole" their festivals. So that's what proponents against "Christmas" say.
For Easter, it's the celebration of the goddess Ishtar (fertility goddess). That's where the bunnies and eggs come from - fertility symbols. From what I was told, the dyeing of eggs come from the dipping of eggs into the blood of slaughtered babies for hopes of a plentiful harvest in the coming year. In ancient times, I believe the festivities including debauchery and rampant orgies. Though I'm sure somewhere along the way, someone has exaggerated some of this stuff, I'm pretty sure that parts of it are correct. But anyway, that's the argument that's usually given against the celebration of Easter. Rather, proponents suggest that if we were to celebrate the crucifixion and the resurrection, we should choose the Jewish Feast of Firstfruits (first Sunday after the Passover).
From personal experience: I was at Superstore yesterday and couldn't find a manger. So I asked a lady to help me but she had no idea as to what a manger was. I described it to her as a wooden box where you put hay in to feed animals. She said, "Oooooh, ok what kind of pet do you have? We have several different kinds depending on if it's a cat or a dog." I tried telling her that it was part of a nativity scene - where you put a baby in the manger to complete the scene. She didn't understand until I said it was a Christmas decoration - she still didn't understand but said that she's never heard of such a decoration. So that's my holiday shopping experience.
Anyway, so that's the background that I've been given. I just need verses and points of views for or against.
For Christmas, they normally (incorrectly) quote Jeremiah 10:3-5 which is about idols, not a Christmas tree but you get the idea. Like Halloween, Christmas was the marriage between pagan rituals & festivals with Christianity. I believe someone quoted me the Constantine age (4th century BC?) though I can't remember if that's what it was or if it was something else. Christmas wasn't "Christmas" to begin with. It was the celebration of the winter solstice - the dying of the sun (the tree) and reincarnation/rebirth or something or the other (burning of the yule log). Celebrating Christ's birth is great but from what I can gather, his birth is closer to the end of September rather than December. Then of course, you have Santa Claus (the all-knowing and seemingly omnipotent jolly old man who rewards kids based on their behaviour throughout the year), Frosty the Snowman, the commercialism, and for many (probably usually not for Christians) the wild partying. Some pagan groups even lay claims that Christians "stole" their festivals. So that's what proponents against "Christmas" say.
For Easter, it's the celebration of the goddess Ishtar (fertility goddess). That's where the bunnies and eggs come from - fertility symbols. From what I was told, the dyeing of eggs come from the dipping of eggs into the blood of slaughtered babies for hopes of a plentiful harvest in the coming year. In ancient times, I believe the festivities including debauchery and rampant orgies. Though I'm sure somewhere along the way, someone has exaggerated some of this stuff, I'm pretty sure that parts of it are correct. But anyway, that's the argument that's usually given against the celebration of Easter. Rather, proponents suggest that if we were to celebrate the crucifixion and the resurrection, we should choose the Jewish Feast of Firstfruits (first Sunday after the Passover).
From personal experience: I was at Superstore yesterday and couldn't find a manger. So I asked a lady to help me but she had no idea as to what a manger was. I described it to her as a wooden box where you put hay in to feed animals. She said, "Oooooh, ok what kind of pet do you have? We have several different kinds depending on if it's a cat or a dog." I tried telling her that it was part of a nativity scene - where you put a baby in the manger to complete the scene. She didn't understand until I said it was a Christmas decoration - she still didn't understand but said that she's never heard of such a decoration. So that's my holiday shopping experience.
Anyway, so that's the background that I've been given. I just need verses and points of views for or against.
M
Funny how the ''indiscriminate intimacy'' of electronic blabber clutters up thread after thread. It's usually done by the same small group of posters desperately attempting to conjure up some humour for various undesired reasons of deficiencies. From a third party perspective it's a funny thing to watch, but I wonder if they're are really laughing at their own posts. 
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G
Funny how the ''indiscriminate intimacy'' of electronic blabber clutters up thread after thread. It's usually done by the same small group of posters desperately attempting to conjure up some humour for various undesired reasons of deficiencies. From a third party perspective it's a funny thing to watch, but I wonder if they're are really laughing at their own posts.
Australians have a subtle, sophisticated kind of humour.
I understand there are people in this world who do not GET irony.
G
Funny how the ''indiscriminate intimacy'' of electronic blabber clutters up thread after thread. It's usually done by the same small group of posters desperately attempting to conjure up some humour for various undesired reasons of deficiencies. From a third party perspective it's a funny thing to watch, but I wonder if they're are really laughing at their own posts.
that is a quote from another member
B
It’s Christmass again.
That means that its Christ’s Day; to do as He sees fit.
Fitt’n is this day for all my Children to run and play. In however this world will allow them.
How dare you religious nincompoops to take the baby Me out of my manger. If I want to be a baby again I can, I made and make babies all for my joy. Did I not receive gifts on this day how much more will I do for those who do for me.
Rejoice oh you little ones of The Father. He is the Heart of Saint nick. I am He says the Father. Come set in my Lap and rejoice tell me what it is that you want! Oh more love Ok! I’ll leave the worldly alone perhaps even inspire them myself to buy more gifts than the little ones could ever play with. What can you except of Me.
I am He who inspired Christmass gifts for all man kind, to receive love in what ever way they can. This world shows to much of hell to my little ones instead of Love to their sons and daughters.
Now do what you aughter, leave it be. Oh fools of my brood Least you I uproot.
Tell me if you can if the worldly do not show much love to their children what better way for me to plant my seeds, (my way), that when these little ones grow up the dormant seeds in their heart may be watered up later into life.
Saint Nickolas’ was a real man years ago who had the Love of the Father in his heart. He did go about giving love and gifts to the poor on Jesus birthday season.
How dare you to call my Day; My most Joyous day of the year, satanically rooted. Why give that jerk the glory for anything.
The candy cane originally had three stripes twirling around it.
One narrow stripe on each side of A larger one, one for the Father one for The Son and one for the Holy One.
White for the purity of God red for the blood that was shed.
A cane for the shepherd to control his sheep with. Sweet as the Love above.
The Christmass Tree is Me says the Lord of life Have you not read I am the Tree of Life.
My Son Davids Star which leads people from afar.
The Twinkling lights for the saints who light up the life on earth.
The other little goodies hanging there on. for the blessing from the way back tell for now on.
Frosty The Snow Man, is ole Jehovah His self in disguise humorous and humbly mild.
The sleigh is the chariot of fire that paves the way for joy, with all them toys.
Like Rudolph let your little light shine. What other type of being could brave the weather on Christmass eve cept of course my reindeer, with Rudolf to light the way.
That means that its Christ’s Day; to do as He sees fit.
Fitt’n is this day for all my Children to run and play. In however this world will allow them.
How dare you religious nincompoops to take the baby Me out of my manger. If I want to be a baby again I can, I made and make babies all for my joy. Did I not receive gifts on this day how much more will I do for those who do for me.
Rejoice oh you little ones of The Father. He is the Heart of Saint nick. I am He says the Father. Come set in my Lap and rejoice tell me what it is that you want! Oh more love Ok! I’ll leave the worldly alone perhaps even inspire them myself to buy more gifts than the little ones could ever play with. What can you except of Me.
I am He who inspired Christmass gifts for all man kind, to receive love in what ever way they can. This world shows to much of hell to my little ones instead of Love to their sons and daughters.
Now do what you aughter, leave it be. Oh fools of my brood Least you I uproot.
Tell me if you can if the worldly do not show much love to their children what better way for me to plant my seeds, (my way), that when these little ones grow up the dormant seeds in their heart may be watered up later into life.
Saint Nickolas’ was a real man years ago who had the Love of the Father in his heart. He did go about giving love and gifts to the poor on Jesus birthday season.
How dare you to call my Day; My most Joyous day of the year, satanically rooted. Why give that jerk the glory for anything.
The candy cane originally had three stripes twirling around it.
One narrow stripe on each side of A larger one, one for the Father one for The Son and one for the Holy One.
White for the purity of God red for the blood that was shed.
A cane for the shepherd to control his sheep with. Sweet as the Love above.
The Christmass Tree is Me says the Lord of life Have you not read I am the Tree of Life.
My Son Davids Star which leads people from afar.
The Twinkling lights for the saints who light up the life on earth.
The other little goodies hanging there on. for the blessing from the way back tell for now on.
Frosty The Snow Man, is ole Jehovah His self in disguise humorous and humbly mild.
The sleigh is the chariot of fire that paves the way for joy, with all them toys.
Like Rudolph let your little light shine. What other type of being could brave the weather on Christmass eve cept of course my reindeer, with Rudolf to light the way.
How many people realize that Christmas and the like were once against the law in this country?
"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to the county."
From the records of the General Court,
Massachusetts Bay Colony
May 11, 1659
Or that men like Spurgeon abhorred the very concept of the holiday?
Comments on
Christmas
by Charles H. Spurgeon
"We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas. First because we do not believe in any mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be sung in Latin or in English: Secondly, because we find no scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Savior's birth, although there in no possibility of discovering when it occurred. It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the Church celebrated the birth of our Lord; and it was not till long after the western Church had set the example, that the eastern adopted it. Because the day in not known. Probably the fact is that the "holy" days were arranged to fit in with the heathen festivals. We venture to assert that if there be any day in the year of which we may be pretty sure that it was not the day on which our Savior was born it is the 25th of December. Regarding not the day, let us give God thanks for the gift of His dear Son.
How absurd to think we could do it in the spirit of the world, with a Jack Frost clown, a deceptive worldly Santa Claus, and a mixed program of sacred truth with fun, deception and fiction. If it be possible to honor Christ in the giving of gifts, I cannot see how while the gift, giver, and recipient are all in the spirit of the world. The Catholics and high Church Episcopalians may have their Christmas one day in 365 but we have a Christ gift the entire year". C. H. Spurgeon Dec. 24, 1871
"Upright men strove to stem the tide, but in spite of all their efforts, the apostasy went on. till the Church, with the exception of a small remnant was submerged under pagan superstition. That Christmas is a pagan festival is beyond all doubt. The time of the year, and the ceremonies with which it in celebrated, prove its origin".
"Those who follow the custom of observing Christmas, follow not the Bible, but pagan ceremonies".
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“Let those who have no Light burn their (pagan) lamps daily. Let those who face the fire of hell affix laurels to their door-posts…You are a light of the world, a tree ever green; if you have renounced the pagan temple, make not your home such a temple!”
3rd century Tertullian on Christmas
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While the above individuals were not infallible, they do give us a basic idea of Christian sentiment about the festival in various ages. From Turtullian in the 3rd century to the Puritains in the 1600's to Spurgeon less than 200 years ago.
There is absolutely no scriptural basis for the fallacy of christianizing pagan festivals much less the celebration thereof. There is substantial scriptural support that God hates all such unholy mixture in his worship, as well as historical support that the early Christians right up to a couple hundred years ago refused to participate in any fashion. It was these and other such corruptions of Christianity that drove many to flee England and the persecutions they suffered for refusing to participate in such things. The unholy catholic mass was something true Christians would rather be burned alive than to participate. Countless thousands died for this righteous conviction. Christmas by it's very definition, "Christ+Mass," is the re-sacrifice of Jesus. Utter blasphemy. Ironic that after so many righteous martyrs gave their lives to keep Christianity free of such corruption that today people think you must be ashamed of Jesus if you don't celebrate this pagan festival.
I reckon we shouldn't be surprised considering the Israelites did the same thing every time they spent any significant time in prosperity. It was only a matter of time before they began tolerating, and eventually adopting, paganism until they were completely steeped in idolatry. They were just as much and even more vehemently opposed to those sent by God to wake them up to their sinful condition God only tolerated that condition for so long before raining judgment on his people to bring them back to true worship. Are the natural and economic disasters in this country, much less world, mere coincidence, or do they sound eerily familiar to the judgments God promised to poor out on any people who reject him?
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Proverbs 16:25
"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to the county."
From the records of the General Court,
Massachusetts Bay Colony
May 11, 1659
Or that men like Spurgeon abhorred the very concept of the holiday?
Comments on
Christmas
by Charles H. Spurgeon
"We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas. First because we do not believe in any mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be sung in Latin or in English: Secondly, because we find no scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Savior's birth, although there in no possibility of discovering when it occurred. It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the Church celebrated the birth of our Lord; and it was not till long after the western Church had set the example, that the eastern adopted it. Because the day in not known. Probably the fact is that the "holy" days were arranged to fit in with the heathen festivals. We venture to assert that if there be any day in the year of which we may be pretty sure that it was not the day on which our Savior was born it is the 25th of December. Regarding not the day, let us give God thanks for the gift of His dear Son.
How absurd to think we could do it in the spirit of the world, with a Jack Frost clown, a deceptive worldly Santa Claus, and a mixed program of sacred truth with fun, deception and fiction. If it be possible to honor Christ in the giving of gifts, I cannot see how while the gift, giver, and recipient are all in the spirit of the world. The Catholics and high Church Episcopalians may have their Christmas one day in 365 but we have a Christ gift the entire year". C. H. Spurgeon Dec. 24, 1871
"Upright men strove to stem the tide, but in spite of all their efforts, the apostasy went on. till the Church, with the exception of a small remnant was submerged under pagan superstition. That Christmas is a pagan festival is beyond all doubt. The time of the year, and the ceremonies with which it in celebrated, prove its origin".
"Those who follow the custom of observing Christmas, follow not the Bible, but pagan ceremonies".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Let those who have no Light burn their (pagan) lamps daily. Let those who face the fire of hell affix laurels to their door-posts…You are a light of the world, a tree ever green; if you have renounced the pagan temple, make not your home such a temple!”
3rd century Tertullian on Christmas
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While the above individuals were not infallible, they do give us a basic idea of Christian sentiment about the festival in various ages. From Turtullian in the 3rd century to the Puritains in the 1600's to Spurgeon less than 200 years ago.
There is absolutely no scriptural basis for the fallacy of christianizing pagan festivals much less the celebration thereof. There is substantial scriptural support that God hates all such unholy mixture in his worship, as well as historical support that the early Christians right up to a couple hundred years ago refused to participate in any fashion. It was these and other such corruptions of Christianity that drove many to flee England and the persecutions they suffered for refusing to participate in such things. The unholy catholic mass was something true Christians would rather be burned alive than to participate. Countless thousands died for this righteous conviction. Christmas by it's very definition, "Christ+Mass," is the re-sacrifice of Jesus. Utter blasphemy. Ironic that after so many righteous martyrs gave their lives to keep Christianity free of such corruption that today people think you must be ashamed of Jesus if you don't celebrate this pagan festival.
I reckon we shouldn't be surprised considering the Israelites did the same thing every time they spent any significant time in prosperity. It was only a matter of time before they began tolerating, and eventually adopting, paganism until they were completely steeped in idolatry. They were just as much and even more vehemently opposed to those sent by God to wake them up to their sinful condition God only tolerated that condition for so long before raining judgment on his people to bring them back to true worship. Are the natural and economic disasters in this country, much less world, mere coincidence, or do they sound eerily familiar to the judgments God promised to poor out on any people who reject him?
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Proverbs 16:25
M
Soldier of Christ
Good to see you posting. We met in the chat rooms a couple of years ago and had a conversation about to pascha, herod, Passover and easter. I learned alot that day. Do you have a easter post in the forum? I would enjoy going over it again.
Good to see you friend
Hope to see you more often
Nice post BTW
Good to see you posting. We met in the chat rooms a couple of years ago and had a conversation about to pascha, herod, Passover and easter. I learned alot that day. Do you have a easter post in the forum? I would enjoy going over it again.
Good to see you friend
Hope to see you more often
Nice post BTW
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Praise God! To him be all the glory.
No I don't have a post specifically on Easter, but the principles in my last post would apply to Easter just as easily as they do to christmas.Though I assume you are referring to what we discussed about passover and the feast of unleavened bread in Acts 12.
Even though I'm not in the habit of starting threads I had considered making one on the issue of christmas since it's that time of year, but someone beat me to it. I've been reading Foxe's Book of Martyrs recently and couldn't help thinking how many willingly accepted being burned at the stake when all they had to do was agree to go to mass and they would be set free. Much less, the fewer but still significant, number of people who did recant and were so overwhelmed with guilt and their conscience bearing witness with the truth of God's word that they publicly renounced their recantation even tearing up the paper in front of the very people who had the authority to have them burnt. All because they refused to attend mass. All this fresh in my mind while I hear well meaning christians stand up and defend the very things (christ+mass) these saints chose to be burnt alive rather than blaspheme our Savior by participating in such corruption. I keep reminding myself that it shouldn't be a surprise, yet I can't help but be grieved over the condition of the church today.
I do wish I had more time to get in the chat room, much less on the forums to post but it hasn't been the case of late. By the grace of God we shall see what the future holds in that department. Keep on keeping on and may you find yourself blessed in all that God puts your hands to.
PS. I purposely do not capitalize Christ when spelling christmas. Jesus was once offered for the sins of the world. He cannot be called down out of heaven to be re-offered as the catholic mass claims. As such it is another christ in their mass, and not the Lord Jesus Christ revealed in scripture who died for my sins.
No I don't have a post specifically on Easter, but the principles in my last post would apply to Easter just as easily as they do to christmas.Though I assume you are referring to what we discussed about passover and the feast of unleavened bread in Acts 12.
Even though I'm not in the habit of starting threads I had considered making one on the issue of christmas since it's that time of year, but someone beat me to it. I've been reading Foxe's Book of Martyrs recently and couldn't help thinking how many willingly accepted being burned at the stake when all they had to do was agree to go to mass and they would be set free. Much less, the fewer but still significant, number of people who did recant and were so overwhelmed with guilt and their conscience bearing witness with the truth of God's word that they publicly renounced their recantation even tearing up the paper in front of the very people who had the authority to have them burnt. All because they refused to attend mass. All this fresh in my mind while I hear well meaning christians stand up and defend the very things (christ+mass) these saints chose to be burnt alive rather than blaspheme our Savior by participating in such corruption. I keep reminding myself that it shouldn't be a surprise, yet I can't help but be grieved over the condition of the church today.
I do wish I had more time to get in the chat room, much less on the forums to post but it hasn't been the case of late. By the grace of God we shall see what the future holds in that department. Keep on keeping on and may you find yourself blessed in all that God puts your hands to.
PS. I purposely do not capitalize Christ when spelling christmas. Jesus was once offered for the sins of the world. He cannot be called down out of heaven to be re-offered as the catholic mass claims. As such it is another christ in their mass, and not the Lord Jesus Christ revealed in scripture who died for my sins.
W
hmm, we don't have the easter bunny thingy over here. We just have stuff that symbolizes new life, which is OK from a christian point of view too I guess
as forolidays, both easter and christmas are pagan holidays, and so is the Sunday... it's kimda both fun and sad when some norwegians say we souldn't celebrate christmas the christian way because it's just a rip- off rom the pagan holiday...
I wonder if they really want to go back to the viking ritual with Vinterblot....
as forolidays, both easter and christmas are pagan holidays, and so is the Sunday... it's kimda both fun and sad when some norwegians say we souldn't celebrate christmas the christian way because it's just a rip- off rom the pagan holiday...
I wonder if they really want to go back to the viking ritual with Vinterblot....
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