Do you think Noah was rapped?

[SurJones]

Gen 9:18-27. "[21] He drank some of the wine and became drunk, and he lay uncovered in his tent. [22] And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness [erwa] of his father, and told his two brothers outside. [23] Then Shem and Japheth took a garment ... and walked backward and covered the nakedness [erwa] of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness [erwa]. [24] When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son [ben] had done to him, [25] he said, 'Cursed be Canaan; lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers.'"

 

[Aussie_Gurl]

i guess he did, by what it says there *gasp*

 

[Coffeeattack]

That could be, but also, the fathers nakedness could be his wife. Look up more places on the fathers nakedness and then see what you might find. So it could be while his father was drunk, he uncovered his wife, the boy's mother. just something I've heard.

 

[SurJones]

yea (gala erwa Translated Uncover nakedness) I thought about that as well - The brothers covered Noah up meant he was actually naked and uncovered.

 

[Coffeeattack]

I think it was for certain something done to Noah. Might have been rape. It could have been a number of things, but more than just seeing his father naked. I don't know what the times would say about seeing one naked, but couldn't have that bad of a punishment without some action against his father. Then it was clear, Noah found out what was done to him. Taking his mother and raping her or raping his father either one. I really think that Noah was raped while drunk and made fun of by this son. I think the joking and making fun of his actions was the most degrading thing. The punishment was more servere because of the making fun of his father so drunk that he didn't even know. Noah, being drunk wasn't an innocent party either. But, he could not have known what he drank would make him drunk. Noah and his family were saved from the flood, but a lot of that evil world had to be still a part of who they were by living there. It's like when you are at a work place with a lot of bad talking, you seem to pick it up some without realizing it. Maybe the times they left when entering that ark, had male rape as a common practice. We are told to not be a part of the world but we still have to live in it for a short while. Sin can creep upon us if we are around it a lot.

 

[NoahsDad]

How did Noah have a child out of this union then If noah was raped...(ie Canaan?)
Gen 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
Gen 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Gen 9:26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

 

[NoahsDad]

ps it was Noahs wife that was raped
Deu 27:20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

[NoahsDad]

Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

 

[1still_waters]

Well that portion doesn't say he was raped. It just says he was naked. Is there some hebrew word for rape in there?

 

[Coffeeattack]

I'm confused. Anyway, noahsdad, I like your veiw, it makes since. How does it say a child was born to Noahs wife as a result to rape? I missed that somewhere though.

 

[iraasuup]

Hahaha Merry.. I Love it short and sweet and to the point.

No..

 

[Coffeeattack]

What did his son do then?

 

[Coffeeattack]

Just looked at him naked and got that bad of a punishment?

 

[flossie]

his son found him naked and drunk.He went to his brothers and told them and made fun of their dad.A great man of God.A man that had saved thei lives and because of listening to God had saved humanity here on Earth and save othe live ceations.His 2 sons honoed and espected this great man and coveed him and did not look.

 

[Topher]

I totally came in this thread because I though you were asking "Was Noah rapped", as in like some street-style word battle. You know, like when two rappers throw down and start ragging on each other in verse. I just imagined such an event taking place, and am convinced it would have been amazing.

''You don't think there's a flood, but just wait and see! You're blood's on your hands; now, I'll let you be. Word!"

 

[daddycat]

his son found him naked and drunk. He went to his brothers and told them and made fun of their dad. A great man of God. A man that had saved their lives and because of listening to God had saved humanity here on Earth and save other live creations. His 2 sons honored and respected this great man and covered him and did not look.

[missing 'r's supplied by daddycat ]

I agree. I think the issue was not Ham seeing his father naked, but responding to it by showing disrespect for him--going and reporting it to his brothers for a laugh.

 

[NoahsDad]

then why curse hams' son and Not ham himself?
would any of you curse a grandson instead if your son disrespected you?
that theory makes no sense
but to each his own .....i reckon
Holla

 

[SurJones]

It doesnt say he laughed at him, or made fun of him - So you cant assume that - Now let me set the room straight this is only conversation, this is nothing something that I believe or dont believe. But it is interesting.

If it were just him seeing Noah's Genitals ( the hebrew uses the word erwa, which means genitals)

The only problem with this reading is that it leaves unanswered four very difficult questions: (1) Why is Canaan named so predominantly in this story (more than any other character)? (2) Why was Canaan cursed for something that Ham did? (3) How could Ham be called Noah's "youngest son," when he was actually the second-born of three sons? (4) Does not the wording "done to him" suggest something more than looking and talking?

 

[Coffeeattack]

Why does this matter anyway. Does it affect us today? And yes it probably does, but nothing can be changed about it. I believe it is just for us to study the history. The more you study the more you learn. Study the history of the Canaanites. Are they blessed or condemned, not only here but throughout their history. Also, find out, was it a common practice for the family of one to be cursed, not only the guilty idividual. If a child was born out of this, was it the child's fault? And would that change anything? David's son had to die for David's sin. An action was probably done here, and against Noah. If it's part of history, we can learn from this. If it's not correct or if it's true, it can bring us to a deeper study that will always help. It's not clear in the scriptures, so maybe it's not something God put a great importance too. Maybe this is recorded without much detail for a reason.

 

[SurJones]

Coffee: Its conversation - However

This expression for sexual union is used throughout the incest prohibitions in Lev 18:1-18, 20:17-21,9 where, for example, we read: "If a man takes his sister, a daughter of his father or a daughter of his mother, and sees her nakedness, and she sees his nakedness, it is a disgrace, and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people; he has uncovered his sister's nakedness, he shall be subject to punishment." (20:17, NRSV) Notice the parallelism here between "seeing nakedness" and "uncovering nakedness," both inferring "having sex with." Because of a different context, "seeing" and "uncovered" in the Noah story do not prove that Ham had sex with Noah