Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Not only that we are ALL sinners but because of hearing and believing the word of God, people gets born again.
1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
It is impossible to truly and correctly believe in the word of God until becoming born again.

[Jhn 12:37-40 KJV]
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


[Rom 11:8 KJV]
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
1,018
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Not only that we are ALL sinners but because of hearing and believing the word of God, people gets born again.
1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
I should have included these also

[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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It is impossible to truly and correctly believe in the word of God until becoming born again.

[Jhn 12:37-40 KJV]
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


[Rom 11:8 KJV]
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
This shows in the context that there's actually that believes in Christ and others rejected him yet both heard Christ.

42Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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This shows in the context that there's actually that believes in Christ and others rejected him yet both heard Christ.
Yes, because some could hear spiritually, and some couldn't. Those that could, could, because they were given ears that hear by God
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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I should have included these also

[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
This seems to be a sort of review, tackled over and over. So what do think about the verses? Thanks
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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This seems to be a sort of review, tackled over and over. So what do think about the verses? Thanks
I think the verses are informing us that in order to truly fathom the Gospel, as a prerequisite, we must first be born again. Until
that happens, we can not find it nor recognize it
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Yes, because some could hear spiritually, and some couldn't. Those that could, could, because they were given ears that hear by God
ahh, that's not what the scripture saith. Christ says and I miss to cite the "whosoever" in the particular passages. The same Christ says "And If any man hear my words and believe not..." so what can hear? Every man hears but the saving of the soul is to whosoever.

v.46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Simple. God has given believers to Christ. This verse doesn't even say that Christ didn't die for everyone.

He prayed ONLY for those who would believe, as chosen by God
Get the order straight, please. The choosing is of believers as Eph 1:4 says. "God chose US..." The "us" is defined in v.19, "us who believe".

They were never Born from above by and through the Power of the Holy Spirit, they were self-willed believer's
Where did you get this absurd idea of a "self willed believer"?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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I think the verses are informing us that in order to truly fathom the Gospel, as a prerequisite, we must first be born again. Until
that happens, we can not find it nor recognize it
Umm, but there is the power of the Gospel to save every one that believes. Yes,you need to believe the gospel to be saved. The gospel of Christ is the power to save.

Romans 1:16

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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I've just refuted all your points.
Of course I did. What didn't you understand? Please address each of my points that I claim refuted your points.

[QUOT4E].....You are not born-again from above, you are a self-willed after the flesh believer, who is still dead in your trespasses and sins.
Plain and simple.[/QUOTE]
Your arrogant self centered sinful judgment of what you erroneously presume about me clearly reveals your own heart.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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ahh, that's not what the scripture saith. Christ says and I miss to cite the "whosoever" in the particular passages. The same Christ says "And If any man hear my words and believe not..." so what can hear? Every man hears but the saving of the soul is to whosoever.
Should they "believe not" then it is because they've heard with physical ears but not spiritual ears because they were not given to them:. Please observe:

[Mat 13:15-16 KJV]
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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I will say this you are correct God is NOT the author of sin, but due to the hardness of men's hearts, He shall and does hardened them further, to show forth His Glory against them.
And I showed EXACTLY HOW He hardens them further. By keeping them alive so they CAN continue to harden their own hearts.

Also I am not a Calvinist, I know of him and heard of him, but I've NEVER read anything by the man.
This doesn't prove anything. There are tons of pastors and teachers who teach what he believed.

The Holy Spirit is my teacher, and HE never lies.
So you don't go to a church and sit under a pastor??

From your posts, you have a number of things that are unbiblical. So I'd suggest you figure out what's wrong.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
What you are suggesting or claiming is that God causes sin. That is totally unbibli
And are you suggesting that you don't believe the Bible?
What in the world??!!

If you seriously believe that God DOES cause sin, you've got some real serious problems.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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If you seriously believe that God DOES cause sin, you've got some real serious problems.
Whoa... so FreeGrace2 gets to determine what is sin and what isn't, and make an assessment about God's actions?
I'm speechless.... I have never before heard of anyone making that kind of claim
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,578
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Should they "believe not" then it is because they've heard with physical ears but not spiritual ears because they were not given to them:. Please observe:

[Mat 13:15-16 KJV]
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Umm, you take other verses, and I assumed we already finish those passages that bother you, and now, who is Christ here referring to??
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Should they "believe not" then it is because they've heard with physical ears but not spiritual ears because they were not given to them:. Please observe:

[Mat 13:15-16 KJV]
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Hebrews 3:15 KJV: While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.