Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#1
This is an excellent documentary on the rapture. It's a little long (2 hours 16 min.), but it's worth watching. It's a very professional production with graphics and illustrations throughout. It takes the pre-wrath position and does a very thorough job of comparing that with pre-trib. Enjoy! :)

 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
5,464
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#2
I was about halfway through this a couple of months ago. Maybe it's time to continue. Thanks for posting.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,002
366
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#3
I predict pre-tribbers will hate it. Others might learn something from it. Still some pre-tribbers might be convinced to change their mind but I'm not holding my breath. If someone can't be convinced by this film, I don't know what it will take. :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,921
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#4
This is an excellent documentary on the rapture. It's a little long (2 hours 16 min.), but it's worth watching. It's a very professional production with graphics and illustrations throughout. It takes the pre-wrath position and does a very thorough job of comparing that with pre-trib. Enjoy! :)

these guys come from Biola which teaches the ratpure LOL
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,787
2,453
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#5
This is an excellent documentary on the rapture. It's a little long (2 hours 16 min.), but it's worth watching. It's a very professional production with graphics and illustrations throughout. It takes the pre-wrath position and does a very thorough job of comparing that with pre-trib. Enjoy! :)

@ 19:33 he does not even realize that the precurser " smoking gun" does not erase the verses they mow down to get to their "smoking gun"
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,625
7,713
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#6
I predict pre-tribbers will hate it.
I'm a "pre-tribber" and there is nothing to "hate", since one has to feel sorry for those who cannot see a Pre-Tribulation Rapture in Scripture. There is not a single Rapture passage which says anything about the Tribulation. In fact Christ prefaced His teaching on the Rapture by saying "Let not your heart be troubled". He could have said "You will go through the Tribulation before I take you to Heaven". But He did not.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
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#7
I'm a "pre-tribber" and there is nothing to "hate", since one has to feel sorry for those who cannot see a Pre-Tribulation Rapture in Scripture. There is not a single Rapture passage which says anything about the Tribulation. In fact Christ prefaced His teaching on the Rapture by saying "Let not your heart be troubled". He could have said "You will go through the Tribulation before I take you to Heaven". But He did not.
In addition, the Lord's "Let not your heart be troubled" is echoed by Paul when regarding to the gathering of the living church he said, "Therefore, comfort each other with these words." He also referred to it as "the Blessed Hope."

There would certainly be reason to be troubled and there would be no comforting each other, if the church was to go through the God's wrath.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,002
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#8
In fact Christ prefaced His teaching on the Rapture by saying "Let not your heart be troubled". He could have said "You will go through the Tribulation before I take you to Heaven". But He did not.
How do you get Christians won't have to go through at least part of the tribulation from this verse? I'm just curious. Is it only because He didn't say anything about having to suffer tribulation? He didn't say "when I come we'll stop on Mars first and have a look around" either.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
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#9
I predict pre-tribbers will hate it. Others might learn something from it. Still some pre-tribbers might be convinced to change their mind but I'm not holding my breath. If someone can't be convinced by this film, I don't know what it will take. :)
First of all, the information that they present is the same information that we have already studied and continue to address.

The "Pre-Wrath" gathering of the church is based on God's wrath beginning at after the opening of the 6th seal and that because of the statement "the great day of their wrath has come and who can endure it." So because of this, they interpret God's wrath as beginning after that announcement, which is a false assumption. By removing the first six seals as belonging to God's wrath, they are able to put the church on the earth during that time. However, the statement that God's wrath has come is not a starting point, but is an announcement of God's wrath in it's entirety, i.e. the reason for the previous seals and the trumpets and bowls that are still to come.

We have to remember, that it is the Lamb/Jesus who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and bowl judgments and which means that He is responsible for all of their destruction and fatalities.

Since God's wrath begins at the opening of the first seal, then the church must be gathered prior to that first seal being opened.

I am completely convinced that Revelation 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered and is supported by the fact that the word church never appears from that point forward, yet it was used 19 times throughout the first three chapters.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,002
366
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#10
First of all, the information that they present is the same information that we have already studied and continue to address.

The "Pre-Wrath" gathering of the church is based on God's wrath beginning at after the opening of the 6th seal and that because of the statement "the great day of their wrath has come and who can endure it." So because of this, they interpret God's wrath as beginning after that announcement, which is a false assumption. By removing the first six seals as belonging to God's wrath, they are able to put the church on the earth during that time. However, the statement that God's wrath has come is not a starting point, but is an announcement of God's wrath in it's entirety, i.e. the reason for the previous seals and the trumpets and bowls that are still to come.

We have to remember, that it is the Lamb/Jesus who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and bowl judgments and which means that He is responsible for all of their destruction and fatalities.

Since God's wrath begins at the opening of the first seal, then the church must be gathered prior to that first seal being opened.

I am completely convinced that Revelation 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered and is supported by the fact that the word church never appears from that point forward, yet it was used 19 times throughout the first three chapters.
Are you saying then that "God's wrath" involves the entire seven year period? If so, how do you arrive at that conclusion?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
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#11
How do you get Christians won't have to go through at least part of the tribulation from this verse? I'm just curious. Is it only because He didn't say anything about having to suffer tribulation? He didn't say "when I come we'll stop on Mars first and have a look around" either.
The tribulation period is the time period when God's wrath will be taking place. The church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath and therefore cannot be on the earth during that time period. It is a time of God's wrath for the wicked not the righteous. However, there will be those believers who will have missed the the gathering because they will have gone back into the world, willfully living according to the sinful nature. Then there will be those who heard, but did not believe and will become believers realizing what has taken place and what time period they are now in.

Some of these will be killed during the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period and the others during the last 3 1/2 years, referred to as the great tribulation saints, which are introduced in Rev.7:9-17. If you will notice, after the end of chapter 3, they are never referred to as the church, but as saints. There is a distinction being made here between the church and those who become saints after the church has been removed.

While it is true that believers must go through trials and tribulations as a result of our faith in Christ. We are not to go through God's coming wrath which is His tribulation.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,002
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#12
The tribulation period is the time period when God's wrath will be taking place. The church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath and therefore cannot be on the earth during that time period. It is a time of God's wrath for the wicked not the righteous. However, there will be those believers who will have missed the the gathering because they will have gone back into the world, willfully living according to the sinful nature. Then there will be those who heard, but did not believe and will become believers realizing what has taken place and what time period they are now in.

Some of these will be killed during the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period and the others during the last 3 1/2 years, referred to as the great tribulation saints, which are introduced in Rev.7:9-17. If you will notice, after the end of chapter 3, they are never referred to as the church, but as saints. There is a distinction being made here between the church and those who become saints after the church has been removed.

While it is true that believers must go through trials and tribulations as a result of our faith in Christ. We are not to go through God's coming wrath which is His tribulation.
I'm sorry, but you're seriously deluded.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
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#13
Are you saying then that "God's wrath" involves the entire seven year period? If so, how do you arrive at that conclusion?
"And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time."

In Revelation 12, Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth is the result of the 7th trumpet. When Satan is cast to the earth, the woman/Israel flees into the wilderness where she is cared for, for 1260 days, which puts Satan and his angels being cast out as taking place from the middle of that seven year period and covers the last 3 1/2 years. Therefore, since the 7th trumpet takes place in the middle of the seven years, then the previous seals and other six trumpets would have to take place during the first 3 1/2 years.

It's elementary my dear Watson :)
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#14
"And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time."

In Revelation 12, Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth is the result of the 7th trumpet. When Satan is cast to the earth, the woman/Israel flees into the wilderness where she is cared for, for 1260 days, which puts Satan and his angels being cast out as taking place from the middle of that seven year period and covers the last 3 1/2 years. Therefore, since the 7th trumpet takes place in the middle of the seven years, then the previous seals and other six trumpets would have to take place during the first 3 1/2 years.

It's elementary my dear Watson :)
I'm sorry, but I can't discuss this subject with someone with such an obviously "elementary" understanding. Like most people, I believe you've been influenced by the so-called "great minds" who push the pre-trib nonsense. I sincerely hope you'll look for the truth about this important issue.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
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#15
I'm sorry, but you're seriously deluded.
Actually, I'm seriously correct, as this all comes from combining scripture. You want reasons, but you reject them when they are given. The church cannot and will not go through the tribulation period, the time of God's wrath. We will never see the antichrist, but will be removed before he is revealed. Since the first seal is representing the antichrist, then we must be removed prior to the first seal being opened.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
2,353
113
#16
I'm sorry, but I can't discuss this subject with someone with such an obviously "elementary" understanding. Like most people, I believe you've been influenced by the so-called "great minds" who push the pre-trib nonsense. I sincerely hope you'll look for the truth about this important issue.
It is not elementary, but a deeper understanding of God's word.

I have lived in the book of Revelation and end-time events ever since the Lord called me. I have not been influence by anyone, as I do all of my own studies, which is why I provide scripture with everything that I post.

You however, would do good to pay attention, because what I am sharing with you is the deeper truth regarding Revelation.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,002
366
83
#17
The church cannot and will not go through the tribulation period, the time of God's wrath.
This is your problem right here. You start from a false premise—a premise you no doubt picked up from some "great" scholar—and base everything else off of it rather than simply letting the scripture speak for itself.
 

DWR

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2020
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#18
First of all, the information that they present is the same information that we have already studied and continue to address.

The "Pre-Wrath" gathering of the church is based on God's wrath beginning at after the opening of the 6th seal and that because of the statement "the great day of their wrath has come and who can endure it." So because of this, they interpret God's wrath as beginning after that announcement, which is a false assumption. By removing the first six seals as belonging to God's wrath, they are able to put the church on the earth during that time. However, the statement that God's wrath has come is not a starting point, but is an announcement of God's wrath in it's entirety, i.e. the reason for the previous seals and the trumpets and bowls that are still to come.

We have to remember, that it is the Lamb/Jesus who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and bowl judgments and which means that He is responsible for all of their destruction and fatalities.

Since God's wrath begins at the opening of the first seal, then the church must be gathered prior to that first seal being opened.

I am completely convinced that Revelation 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered and is supported by the fact that the word church never appears from that point forward, yet it was used 19 times throughout the first three chapters.
Every things posted here is nonsense, especially the part about Revelation 4:1.
This person should be ignored. His teaching on end time events is heresy.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,637
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#19
How do you get Christians won't have to go through at least part of the tribulation from this verse? I'm just curious. Is it only because He didn't say anything about having to suffer tribulation? He didn't say "when I come we'll stop on Mars first and have a look around" either.
Seem to me Christian go to tribulation

Matt 24
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Read verse 9
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
1,002
366
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#20
Seem to me Christian go to tribulation

Matt 24
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Read verse 9
So true. Christians from the very beginning have been persecuted. Even pre-tribbers say the so-called "tribulation saints" will suffer persecution! So why would a certain group be singled out for special treatment?