Does a porn addict have to forsake porn BEFORE God will forgive them?
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So, if the KJV put in any word that was not in the original Greek, do we cast that aside as well?
I don't know Greek, if that is the case what do I do?
But maybe you would like to give your opinioin as to the reason I quoted that verse.
Tommy says that before God will forgive us/accept us we have to cease our sin, purify our hearts, and crucify our flesh. Assuming you believe the Holy Spirit does not enter our lives until God has accepted us, do you therefore hold the view that the individual is responsible for ceasing all their sin, purifying their hearts, and crucifying their own flesh? It is their respnsibilty to do this in their own strength?
For if they must do this in order to gain repentance/be accepted by God, they must do all of this on their own as the Spirit cannot yet dwell in them
I don't know Greek, if that is the case what do I do?
But maybe you would like to give your opinioin as to the reason I quoted that verse.
Tommy says that before God will forgive us/accept us we have to cease our sin, purify our hearts, and crucify our flesh. Assuming you believe the Holy Spirit does not enter our lives until God has accepted us, do you therefore hold the view that the individual is responsible for ceasing all their sin, purifying their hearts, and crucifying their own flesh? It is their respnsibilty to do this in their own strength?
For if they must do this in order to gain repentance/be accepted by God, they must do all of this on their own as the Spirit cannot yet dwell in them
B
Now my question is not addressing the METHODOLOGY or the HOW one may forsake a certain behaviour. My question is simply addressing the issue as to whether certain behaviour must literally cease BEFORE God will grant forgiveness.[/QUOTE]
1)"does A porn addict have to forsake Porn BEFORE God will Forgive them" and 2)"DOES certain behaviour literally have to cease before God will forgive them" are two questions with separate conditions contained with in the wording.
1) includes the word FORSAKE which means to recognize porn is wrong/sinful/damaging/grieves God... So porn addict can God to God and repent (agree with God's idea about the use of porn) and admitt they are addicted and ask God to help them become FREE from the grip of pornography...(this is will to forsake) since GOd see's the heart, if the addict is being truthful God will help the person to walk in freedom... which will likely be a process if the grip is very strong. The idea that simply NOT looking at porn is equal to ceasing porn addiction is ridiculous because one doesn't have to merely view porn to benefit from porn addiction since the mind has been steeped in this imagery... the mind can recall the same and temp the flesh to associated activities... in a tormenting way that can weaken the will- Romans 7:17. A contrite addict (of anything) mus learn to walk in victory and that is a process which is helped and schooled byt our loving Father in heaven, any sin activity has already been covered by the the blood of christ who sits at the right hand of the Father, ever making intercesson for us. A saved man IS a forgiven man... his flesh does not entirely come under subjection at once... it is progressive sanctificaton.
As for question Number 2, I have addressed it with in the content of my previous answer... The answer is NO. This is getting really old skinski... EVERY single thread is about YOU beating the drum of the same doctrinal view which you misunderstand or by Now... REFUSE TO ACCEPT... might be more accurate summation.
1)"does A porn addict have to forsake Porn BEFORE God will Forgive them" and 2)"DOES certain behaviour literally have to cease before God will forgive them" are two questions with separate conditions contained with in the wording.
1) includes the word FORSAKE which means to recognize porn is wrong/sinful/damaging/grieves God... So porn addict can God to God and repent (agree with God's idea about the use of porn) and admitt they are addicted and ask God to help them become FREE from the grip of pornography...(this is will to forsake) since GOd see's the heart, if the addict is being truthful God will help the person to walk in freedom... which will likely be a process if the grip is very strong. The idea that simply NOT looking at porn is equal to ceasing porn addiction is ridiculous because one doesn't have to merely view porn to benefit from porn addiction since the mind has been steeped in this imagery... the mind can recall the same and temp the flesh to associated activities... in a tormenting way that can weaken the will- Romans 7:17. A contrite addict (of anything) mus learn to walk in victory and that is a process which is helped and schooled byt our loving Father in heaven, any sin activity has already been covered by the the blood of christ who sits at the right hand of the Father, ever making intercesson for us. A saved man IS a forgiven man... his flesh does not entirely come under subjection at once... it is progressive sanctificaton.
As for question Number 2, I have addressed it with in the content of my previous answer... The answer is NO. This is getting really old skinski... EVERY single thread is about YOU beating the drum of the same doctrinal view which you misunderstand or by Now... REFUSE TO ACCEPT... might be more accurate summation.
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1)"does A porn addict have to forsake Porn BEFORE God will Forgive them" and 2)"DOES certain behaviour literally have to cease before God will forgive them" are two questions with separate conditions contained with in the wording.
1) includes the word FORSAKE which means to recognize porn is wrong/sinful/damaging/grieves God... So porn addict can God to God and repent (agree with God's idea about the use of porn) and admitt they are addicted and ask God to help them become FREE from the grip of pornography... since GOd see's the heart, if the addict is being truthful God will help the person to walk in freedom... which will likely be a process if the grip is very strong. The idea that simply NOT looking at porn is equal to ceasing porn addiction is ridiculous because one doesn't have to merely view porn to benefit from porn addiction since the mind has been steeped in this imagery... the mind can recall the same and temp the flesh to associated activities... in a tormenting way that can weaken the will- Romans 7:17. A contrite addict (of anything) mus learn to walk in victory and that is a process which is helped and schooled byt our loving Father in heaven, any sin activity has already been covered by the the blood of christ who sits at the right hand of the Father, ever making intercesson for us. A saved man IS a forgiven man... his flesh does not entirely come under subjection at once... it is progressive sanctificaton.
As for question Number 2, I have addressed it with in the content of my previous answer... The answer is NO. This is getting really old skinski... EVERY single thread is about YOU beating the drum of the same doctrinal view which you misunderstand or by Now... REFUSE TO ACCEPT... might be more accurate summation.[/QUOTE]
Amen
A post of much truth. Thank you for it
1) includes the word FORSAKE which means to recognize porn is wrong/sinful/damaging/grieves God... So porn addict can God to God and repent (agree with God's idea about the use of porn) and admitt they are addicted and ask God to help them become FREE from the grip of pornography... since GOd see's the heart, if the addict is being truthful God will help the person to walk in freedom... which will likely be a process if the grip is very strong. The idea that simply NOT looking at porn is equal to ceasing porn addiction is ridiculous because one doesn't have to merely view porn to benefit from porn addiction since the mind has been steeped in this imagery... the mind can recall the same and temp the flesh to associated activities... in a tormenting way that can weaken the will- Romans 7:17. A contrite addict (of anything) mus learn to walk in victory and that is a process which is helped and schooled byt our loving Father in heaven, any sin activity has already been covered by the the blood of christ who sits at the right hand of the Father, ever making intercesson for us. A saved man IS a forgiven man... his flesh does not entirely come under subjection at once... it is progressive sanctificaton.
As for question Number 2, I have addressed it with in the content of my previous answer... The answer is NO. This is getting really old skinski... EVERY single thread is about YOU beating the drum of the same doctrinal view which you misunderstand or by Now... REFUSE TO ACCEPT... might be more accurate summation.[/QUOTE]
Amen
A post of much truth. Thank you for it
C
If the rebellion does not have to stop, wonder why God led the Hebrews in the wilderness so long and made sure that generation died off? If I can come to God and not forsake my injurious sin, then why would there even be a need for judgment on those who never gave up their rebellious sin? A murderous Christian? A blasphemist Christian? Don't think so.
C
Does a porn addict have to forsake porn? YES
Does a porn addict have the strength within himself to forsake porn? NO
So what does a porn addict have to do? To some, such a scenario may seem like a dilemma but not if you understand scripture within it's intended context.
It is the Holy Spirit which convicts one's heart to repent. It is also the Holy Spirit which places within that person the earnest desire to turn away from such sin. A repentant heart and a genuine desire to abandon sin is indeed evidence of a regenerated heart. However, what our resident Pelagians seem to be unable to understand is that it is only through walking in the Spirit / Abiding in Christ (intimacy with God) is where and when we receive the strength to forsake such sin.
Man was created to be utterly reliant on God from the very beginning. God provided absolutely everything for Adam & Eve during there stay in the garden. Christ gave his life not only for the forgiveness of sin but also to restore right fellowship with the Father through the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is only through intimacy with the indwelling Holy Spirit that we are empowered to turn away from temptation and sin.
Does a porn addict have the strength within himself to forsake porn? NO
So what does a porn addict have to do? To some, such a scenario may seem like a dilemma but not if you understand scripture within it's intended context.
It is the Holy Spirit which convicts one's heart to repent. It is also the Holy Spirit which places within that person the earnest desire to turn away from such sin. A repentant heart and a genuine desire to abandon sin is indeed evidence of a regenerated heart. However, what our resident Pelagians seem to be unable to understand is that it is only through walking in the Spirit / Abiding in Christ (intimacy with God) is where and when we receive the strength to forsake such sin.
Man was created to be utterly reliant on God from the very beginning. God provided absolutely everything for Adam & Eve during there stay in the garden. Christ gave his life not only for the forgiveness of sin but also to restore right fellowship with the Father through the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is only through intimacy with the indwelling Holy Spirit that we are empowered to turn away from temptation and sin.
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Although I would not consider myself as someone who would be aligned to 'holiness' doctrine, and although there is much I would disagree with you on issues, I must say it is heartening to see the emphasis(by a 'holiness' person) put on the Holy Spirit changing an individual, rather than it being stressed the individual must make themselves acceptable to God. Also it is heartening to know that though you consider yourself of a 'holiness' church you seem to readily accept that we come, and are accepted as we are, even with our imperfections/sin, and we are changed by the Spirit within as we trust in our Saviour.
I have not read of any Christian BTW on this website who thinks it is fine for a convert to wallow in their sin forever and a day, as a few are mischievously reporting.
I have not read of any Christian BTW on this website who thinks it is fine for a convert to wallow in their sin forever and a day, as a few are mischievously reporting.
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D
The pharisees told Jesus he could not heal on the Sabbath and He could not harvest grain on the Sabbath. Yet Jesus did so. It is the Pharisees who write rules no one can follow and demand things to be done. Looks like the Pharisees are still alive and well on this forum!
God accepts us as we are, warts and all, as we first come to Him. Then He moves us along in our discipleship so we become more like Christ. As long as we press forward into God and continue in the process of sanctification,throughout our earthly life, we can be saved. Only a Pharisaical christian would demand pure holiness before they claim God's forgiveness.
Some addictions like smoking can be nearly impossible to quit. Would anyone here really tell a person "You must stop smoking before you can become a christian"? Yet some here are saying that a person must stop viewing porn to gain forgiveness from God. We must be perfect before we can be forgiven? How silly is that?
Peter asked Jesus “Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times?”. Jesus responded with “No, not seven times,but seventy times seven!" I realize this is dealing with men forgiving men, but certainly God will forgive our sins each and every time we sin (providing that we repent and ask for forgivness). God is faithful to forgive and we can count on that!
If a christian has a porn addiction, they simply need to try not to fall and if they do fall to simply repent and ask to be forgiven. Also ask God for help in dealing with it and to do better next time. There is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ!
God accepts us as we are, warts and all, as we first come to Him. Then He moves us along in our discipleship so we become more like Christ. As long as we press forward into God and continue in the process of sanctification,throughout our earthly life, we can be saved. Only a Pharisaical christian would demand pure holiness before they claim God's forgiveness.
Some addictions like smoking can be nearly impossible to quit. Would anyone here really tell a person "You must stop smoking before you can become a christian"? Yet some here are saying that a person must stop viewing porn to gain forgiveness from God. We must be perfect before we can be forgiven? How silly is that?
Peter asked Jesus “Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times?”. Jesus responded with “No, not seven times,but seventy times seven!" I realize this is dealing with men forgiving men, but certainly God will forgive our sins each and every time we sin (providing that we repent and ask for forgivness). God is faithful to forgive and we can count on that!
If a christian has a porn addiction, they simply need to try not to fall and if they do fall to simply repent and ask to be forgiven. Also ask God for help in dealing with it and to do better next time. There is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ!
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C
Danschance = Black Me = purple
The pharisees told Jesus he could not heal on the Sabbath and He could not harvest grain on the Sabbath. Yet Jesus did so. It is the Pharisees who write rules no one can follow and demand things to be done. Looks like the Pharisees are still alive and well on this forum!
I believe it to be God who said that one cannot work on the Sabbath in one of His ten commandments. Jesus was demostrating that it is no longer the dos and don'ts of the Law (flesh) which is to be one's righteousness, but love demostrated.
Some addictions like smoking can be nearly impossible to quit. Would anyone here really tell a person "You must stop smoking before you can become a christian"? Yet some here are saying that a person must stop viewing porn to gain forgiveness from God. We must be perfect before we can be forgiven? How silly is that?
So then, I can gain forgiveness while I am in the process of offending God? Say I am in the process of beating my child and God would then say,"I forgive you?" 10 minutes later, "I still forgive you?" The mother came in, I started to beat her, and again, "I forgive you still more?" Say that my addiction was crack, do I have to repent and forsake my rebellion, before I find forgiveness or can I continue using crack in my walk with God? If my eyes are upon rebellion and Light, then truly I am lukewarm and shall be spit by the Lord Himself. What a terrible thing to experience. To be so distasteful to the Lord, that He would spit you out.
If a christian has a porn addiction, they simply need to try not to fall and if they do fall to simply repent and ask to be forgiven. Also ask God for help in dealing with it and to do better next time. There is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ!
But then, when does one become a new man in Christ? When we accepted Christ as Lord, do we not became a child of God then? If our light is grey, have we really turned to God?
The pharisees told Jesus he could not heal on the Sabbath and He could not harvest grain on the Sabbath. Yet Jesus did so. It is the Pharisees who write rules no one can follow and demand things to be done. Looks like the Pharisees are still alive and well on this forum!
I believe it to be God who said that one cannot work on the Sabbath in one of His ten commandments. Jesus was demostrating that it is no longer the dos and don'ts of the Law (flesh) which is to be one's righteousness, but love demostrated.
Some addictions like smoking can be nearly impossible to quit. Would anyone here really tell a person "You must stop smoking before you can become a christian"? Yet some here are saying that a person must stop viewing porn to gain forgiveness from God. We must be perfect before we can be forgiven? How silly is that?
So then, I can gain forgiveness while I am in the process of offending God? Say I am in the process of beating my child and God would then say,"I forgive you?" 10 minutes later, "I still forgive you?" The mother came in, I started to beat her, and again, "I forgive you still more?" Say that my addiction was crack, do I have to repent and forsake my rebellion, before I find forgiveness or can I continue using crack in my walk with God? If my eyes are upon rebellion and Light, then truly I am lukewarm and shall be spit by the Lord Himself. What a terrible thing to experience. To be so distasteful to the Lord, that He would spit you out.
If a christian has a porn addiction, they simply need to try not to fall and if they do fall to simply repent and ask to be forgiven. Also ask God for help in dealing with it and to do better next time. There is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ!
But then, when does one become a new man in Christ? When we accepted Christ as Lord, do we not became a child of God then? If our light is grey, have we really turned to God?
hello Skinski7
i was thinking that they would not be able to have a right standing with GOD.
even if they wanted to because sin had us,and we couldnt approach GOD in the flesh.Only JESUS could approach a Holy GOD
if we tried to be self rightous it would not work for us.only Jesus could be rightous by works.the only way would be by faith.faith in the finished work of christ.
Romans 7[SUP]22[/SUP] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23[/SUP] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24[/SUP] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25[/SUP] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
i was thinking that they would not be able to have a right standing with GOD.
even if they wanted to because sin had us,and we couldnt approach GOD in the flesh.Only JESUS could approach a Holy GOD
if we tried to be self rightous it would not work for us.only Jesus could be rightous by works.the only way would be by faith.faith in the finished work of christ.
Romans 7[SUP]22[/SUP] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23[/SUP] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24[/SUP] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25[/SUP] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
"After he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise!" Heb6:15
The New Covenant turns the focus of God’s Word INWARD. It’s the heart that needs Fixed! (Matt15:16-20) People can learn to live a better, improved version of life, through applying religious principles, but still MISS the Kingdom. Because it’s the heart that needs CLEANSED by faith, not the intellect convinced that Jesus will pronounce them Righteous if they ‘trust’ Him. It’s a spiritual impossibility to become Holy WITHOUT BEING Holy! The Flesh must be subdued, not Cloaked. This requires WHOLEHEARTED Obedience to Truth and a Faith that WORKS! Standing the Gap
"But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3-8-9!
Strong words from the word of God, may we all who desire truth humbly accept them and hide them in out hearts, thus producing the fruits of righteousness and obedience as true followers of Christ! Tommy
The New Covenant turns the focus of God’s Word INWARD. It’s the heart that needs Fixed! (Matt15:16-20) People can learn to live a better, improved version of life, through applying religious principles, but still MISS the Kingdom. Because it’s the heart that needs CLEANSED by faith, not the intellect convinced that Jesus will pronounce them Righteous if they ‘trust’ Him. It’s a spiritual impossibility to become Holy WITHOUT BEING Holy! The Flesh must be subdued, not Cloaked. This requires WHOLEHEARTED Obedience to Truth and a Faith that WORKS! Standing the Gap
"But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3-8-9!
Strong words from the word of God, may we all who desire truth humbly accept them and hide them in out hearts, thus producing the fruits of righteousness and obedience as true followers of Christ! Tommy
D
So if I understand you, you claim we have to be perfect in order to be forgiven?
I listened to a pastor say "I have broken every one of the 10 commandments not just in the last year but probably in the last week. Yes, that means I have murdered and committed adultery. No, I have never actually killed anyone nor have I actually cheated on my wife but Jesus said if we think about it, we are guilty of it, even if we have never acted on those thoughts."
No, you can not gain forgiveness as you are committing a sin but you can certainly repent after and be fully forgiven. You can be forgiven for the same sin, over and over. There is no limit to the forgiveness of God thru the blood of Christ or His grace. No Christian is perfect. We all sin. The difference is that our sins become less sever and less obvious, but we all still sin.
I am no better than the worst sinner on the planet. Even so, I am forgiven.
H
of course you got to stop that is the one part of repentance..the other part is turning toward him. It's not quitting this and that, its laying down our efforts and strength and trusting in Christ, when you have Christ you have all you need. If we got the kind of faith that doesn't let us forsake ALL wickedness, then we have faith not worth having. Can a Christian fall into carnal ways, drunkedness, porn, sex? Yes... Can a Christian fall into anything like that, and it not bother them? No.. it will break their heart, and they will repent, and they will grow in holiness
A
The short answer is no. Once a person becomes a Christian they align themselves with God and embark on a life long process of sanctification. There are many victories. Sometimes they are very quick victories of supernatural deliverance and sometimes they are slow and progressive with difficult struggle... two steps forward one step back. God's discipline may be necessary. But, the godly heart is a repentant heart that seeks God's forgiveness and purposes toward godliness trusting Him for the grace to grow in sanctification whether quickly or slowly. Salvation -- Sanctification -- Glorification.
C
Danschance = black Me = purple
So if I understand you, you claim we have to be perfect in order to be forgiven? The Bible claims that one must repent before there is an offer of forgiveness and everything which goes with that forgiveness. Repentance does not equal perfection, but does equal one's soul hearkening to the Spirit's conviction. Perfection does not come until we are changed. But in Christ we are perfect.....which word for perfect are you asking me to explain, seeing that there are about 10 words which can be translated as perfect?
I listened to a pastor say "I have broken every one of the 10 commandments not just in the last year but probably in the last week. Yes, that means I have murdered and committed adultery No, I have never actually killed anyone nor have I actually cheated on my wife but Jesus said if we think about it, we are guilty of it, even if we have never acted on those thoughts." He who is spiritual will mind the things of the Spirit. He who is carnal will mind the things of the flesh. What then is the solution, die to the flesh.
No, you can not gain forgiveness as you are committing a sin but you can certainly repent after and be fully forgiven. So, if I wish to continue to use crack in my walk God, all I do is ask for forgiveness when I am done? When does the change of a man come? That is, when is he reborn? If I therefore have a new heart and a new spirit in my rebirth, does that new heart and spirit also seek fleshly pleasure?
You can be forgiven for the same sin, over and over. When are we to die to the flesh? Shall we have two lords? Can our light be grey?
There is no limit to the forgiveness of God thru the blood of Christ or His grace. No Christian is perfect. We all sin. The difference is that our sins become less sever and less obvious, but we all still sin. I am certain a Christian can fall during his race on faith's coarse. But, when he remains in the mud, it then becomes a problem. Inasmuch as it is a problem for those who never entered the race. Am I correct to assume that you are not saying that we can live in direct resistance to God's leading?
I am no better than the worst sinner on the planet. Even so, I am forgiven.
So if I understand you, you claim we have to be perfect in order to be forgiven? The Bible claims that one must repent before there is an offer of forgiveness and everything which goes with that forgiveness. Repentance does not equal perfection, but does equal one's soul hearkening to the Spirit's conviction. Perfection does not come until we are changed. But in Christ we are perfect.....which word for perfect are you asking me to explain, seeing that there are about 10 words which can be translated as perfect?
I listened to a pastor say "I have broken every one of the 10 commandments not just in the last year but probably in the last week. Yes, that means I have murdered and committed adultery No, I have never actually killed anyone nor have I actually cheated on my wife but Jesus said if we think about it, we are guilty of it, even if we have never acted on those thoughts." He who is spiritual will mind the things of the Spirit. He who is carnal will mind the things of the flesh. What then is the solution, die to the flesh.
No, you can not gain forgiveness as you are committing a sin but you can certainly repent after and be fully forgiven. So, if I wish to continue to use crack in my walk God, all I do is ask for forgiveness when I am done? When does the change of a man come? That is, when is he reborn? If I therefore have a new heart and a new spirit in my rebirth, does that new heart and spirit also seek fleshly pleasure?
You can be forgiven for the same sin, over and over. When are we to die to the flesh? Shall we have two lords? Can our light be grey?
There is no limit to the forgiveness of God thru the blood of Christ or His grace. No Christian is perfect. We all sin. The difference is that our sins become less sever and less obvious, but we all still sin. I am certain a Christian can fall during his race on faith's coarse. But, when he remains in the mud, it then becomes a problem. Inasmuch as it is a problem for those who never entered the race. Am I correct to assume that you are not saying that we can live in direct resistance to God's leading?
I am no better than the worst sinner on the planet. Even so, I am forgiven.
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 1:1-2).
Believers' desire should be to have a sanctified and triumphant life, our desire should be to have a right guiltless relationship with God but sin can hinder this that's why we have Jesus as our advocate with the Father who pleads on their behalf when we sin and come to the throne of grace in repentance.
Jesus sacrificed His life to sanctify His children and give them victorious lives.
He prayed for our sanctification: John 17:17-19
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Eph 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
1 Thess 4:3-5
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
One would be abusing God's grace to say that since Jesus is our advocate and His blood covers our sins making God's forgiveness limitless they can deliberately commit sin today then repent tomorrow, sin the next day then repent again, sin then repent. God sees man's heart and cannot be deceived; if anyone is deliberately living such life it implies either lack of genuine conversion or spiritual lukewarmness that will incur chastisement. I understand that sin can have a strong grip but the blood of Christ is stronger to set one free from the power of sin. If a believer is struggling with a particular sin, they need to be sincere with themself and ask God to set them free instead of relaxing in such state as a slave to sin.
Our loving Father has provided everything we need for life and godliness.
Believers' desire should be to have a sanctified and triumphant life, our desire should be to have a right guiltless relationship with God but sin can hinder this that's why we have Jesus as our advocate with the Father who pleads on their behalf when we sin and come to the throne of grace in repentance.
Jesus sacrificed His life to sanctify His children and give them victorious lives.
He prayed for our sanctification: John 17:17-19
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Eph 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
1 Thess 4:3-5
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
One would be abusing God's grace to say that since Jesus is our advocate and His blood covers our sins making God's forgiveness limitless they can deliberately commit sin today then repent tomorrow, sin the next day then repent again, sin then repent. God sees man's heart and cannot be deceived; if anyone is deliberately living such life it implies either lack of genuine conversion or spiritual lukewarmness that will incur chastisement. I understand that sin can have a strong grip but the blood of Christ is stronger to set one free from the power of sin. If a believer is struggling with a particular sin, they need to be sincere with themself and ask God to set them free instead of relaxing in such state as a slave to sin.
Our loving Father has provided everything we need for life and godliness.
Excellent points, Mr. cflutz.
You're right, repentance does not equal perfection but the result of the Holy Spirit's conviction. It is the groundwork of regeneration because it, coupled with faith, brings salvation. The fruit of salvation is inward and outward transformation because of Christ's dwelling in our hearts.
You're right, repentance does not equal perfection but the result of the Holy Spirit's conviction. It is the groundwork of regeneration because it, coupled with faith, brings salvation. The fruit of salvation is inward and outward transformation because of Christ's dwelling in our hearts.
D
I was excited to see this post! Finally we are at the heart of the matter. Keep in mind I am not saying it is OK to sin nor am I being passive about sin. We are called to be holy. Yet who here is with out sin? Have you ever committed the same sin more than twice? Again, Paul said he was not able to stop sinning (Romans 7:14-25)
So if Paul had a constant struggle with a sin issue and he obviously sinned repetitively, then would you claim he is in hell? Do you think he is beyond redemption? Do you think Paul sinned more than 7 times 70?
So if Paul had a constant struggle with a sin issue and he obviously sinned repetitively, then would you claim he is in hell? Do you think he is beyond redemption? Do you think Paul sinned more than 7 times 70?
A
don't get the point of this disagreement.
its like one side is arguing about forgiveness for manslaughter while the other says that murder is unacceptable but neither one recognizes that the other is talking about something totally different because the INTENT is different.
to sin intentionally thinking you can ask for forgiveness is like MURDER and will be punished accordingly.
to try with your whole heart to follow God and stumble and fall into a pit is like manslaughter.
its like one side is arguing about forgiveness for manslaughter while the other says that murder is unacceptable but neither one recognizes that the other is talking about something totally different because the INTENT is different.
to sin intentionally thinking you can ask for forgiveness is like MURDER and will be punished accordingly.
to try with your whole heart to follow God and stumble and fall into a pit is like manslaughter.