Does God Use Suffering to Conform the Believer to the Image of Christ?

[UnitedWithChrist]

2 Timothy 1:8-9
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
(ESV Strong's)

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

As I posted these Scriptures, I am thinking about this....

it seems like when I've been in a vibrant church, there have been a lot of suffering people.

Why do I think that's the situation?

It is likely because I am in the incubator of real believers, rather than in the clutch of false teachers. If they are false believers, they are not being conformed to the image of Christ, and suffering is part of that.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

It also occurs to me that dispensationalists might be worse about a no-suffering theology.

Why am I thinking this?

Their theology teaches that they are going to bail out on the tribulation, and won't suffer during it because they will be raptured to heaven.

I don't think there's a perfect correlation here, though, because I know one dispensationalist pastor who talked to me about how the suffering of one of his members was producing fruit in her life.

 

[Melach]

yes he does its clear from the bible and not only bible but from our personal experience we see it. people who have been through hard things are many times more compassionate loving gentle kind and im afraid to say it but: happy than the average person.

 

[Deade]

Hebrews 12:3-13
3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed.
(ESV Strong's)

Amen brother, you've put this presentation together well. I am sometimes amazed we don't realize our trials by fire are what makes us complete. The part in red above shows it doesn't have to be pleasant, and it won't be. But our Lord promised us this trouble from the world.

John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

The Lord has knocked me down to nothing many times and taken my health away. He started that while I was in the mission field. I guess I was getting a big head, seeing how much good my work was accomplishing. I got bitter then and even later. It has been a wild ride but I came out of it with two published books and now a website.

What strikes me is, the in the middle of some of my most trying times, God gave me some of the things that I have always wanted. Like He spoils me. But those things He gave me, I desired while I was still in the world. Now, they don't matter. And He has taken most of them back again. My health is worse than ever, but I feel very close to the Lord once again. I am now letting God take over everything. It's all His anyway. I think Paul said it best.

1 Cor. 15:19 "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable."

 

[Judges1318]

Note that I am not claim God never provides us with pleasant moments, either. God blesses us with good times as well as difficult times. However, in the process of conforming the believer to the image of Christ, he will experience bad times too.

"10And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast." - 1 Peter 5:10

As I posted these Scriptures, I am thinking about this....

it seems like when I've been in a vibrant church, there have been a lot of suffering people.

Why do I think that's the situation?

The best church I have been in was a group of us struggling, suffering Christians who met because our suffering moved us to seek relief in the promises of God. That was the common denominator that held us together. We all wanted to experience God. And it's the reason we were not divided over doctrinal differences.

 

[Judges1318]

yes he does its clear from the bible and not only bible but from our personal experience we see it. people who have been through hard things are many times more compassionate loving gentle kind and im afraid to say it but: happy than the average person.

Suffering drove me to the scriptures. I learned a lot.
Suffering births compassion inside of me for hurting people.
That compassion fuels fervent and heartfelt prayer for hurting people.
Suffering is the manure that fertilizes the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Judges1318]

My suffering scripture:

"we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope." - Romans 5:3,4

 

[Melach]

i wanna see who voted no? didnt they read all verses posted by UWC and Judges?

 

[TabinRivCA]

1 Peter 4:13-16
But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.
(ESV Strong's)

Jn 10:10
Jesus the Good Shepherd
…9I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and have it in all its fullness. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.…'
The Joyful Return
…18So He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. 20Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”…
My daughter went to heaven a few years ago at 33. I was there as she lay on the stretcher. Her husband and my son were there with the ambulance workers. I KNEW she could have been brought back to life, but when I said 'come back' the lady attendant said 'oh that can't happen'. I said Jesus brought Lazarus back and then the other guy said 'well that was then'. My son and son-in-law are believers but unfortunately at that time, their faith wasn't there for that. Bringing people, by faith, back from the dead is not that uncommon, to those with the faith for it.
My suffering/remorse, was in that we didn't act sooner to help her addiction before it got to that point.
The saints who suffer for Christ and don't bow down, are doing it for Christ's sake. Paul was afflicted with a ailment because God didn't want Paul to be exhaulted.
Some Christians don't believe that the Scripture 'By His stripes we are healed' means healing however many do and are healed.
I know we will have a period of mourning for the passing of loved ones, but does God WANT us to suffer, I think not. Those who choose to suffer for His sake, is commendable and they will be so blest in Heaven. But the Body of Christ should be over-comers and conquerors through the Blood of the Lamb and our testimony of Faith in His Goodness.

 

[TabinRivCA]

i wanna see who voted no? didnt they read all verses posted by UWC and Judges?

I'm not telling, lol.

 

[Deade]

Jn 10:10
Jesus the Good Shepherd
…9I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and have it in all its fullness. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.…'
The Joyful Return
…18So He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. 20Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”…
My daughter went to heaven a few years ago at 33. I was there as she lay on the stretcher. Her husband and my son were there with the ambulance workers. I KNEW she could have been brought back to life, but when I said 'come back' the lady attendant said 'oh that can't happen'. I said Jesus brought Lazarus back and then the other guy said 'well that was then'. My son and son-in-law are believers but unfortunately at that time, their faith wasn't there for that. Bringing people, by faith, back from the dead is not that uncommon, to those with the faith for it.
My suffering/remorse, was in that we didn't act sooner to help her addiction before it got to that point.
The saints who suffer for Christ and don't bow down, are doing it for Christ's sake. Paul was afflicted with a ailment because God didn't want Paul to be exhaulted.
Some Christians don't believe that the Scripture 'By His stripes we are healed' means healing however many do and are healed.
I know we will have a period of mourning for the passing of loved ones, but does God WANT us to suffer, I think not. Those who choose to suffer for His sake, is commendable and they will be so blest in Heaven. But the Body of Christ should be over-comers and conquerors through the Blood of the Lamb and our testimony of Faith in His Goodness.

You know Tabin, God deals with different people in different ways. You have suffered, in seeing your daughter die, and I am sure much more has happened to you.

There are many different levels of service to God. Even different types of service. That is why I am very careful not to condemn someones work and/or teaching. God may be working differently with them.

All I can attest to, is how God has worked in my life. I see God prospering folks financially, and I applaud that. They have a lot to give to further God's work. I have seen very wealthy businessmen doing wonderful things for our Lord. But He has kept me poor as a church mouse most of the time.

Don't get me wrong, I have had big money flowing through my life, but it has always gone out as fast as it came in. Like the saying goes, God works in mysterious ways.

 

[Judges1318]

Bringing people, by faith, back from the dead is not that uncommon, to those with the faith for it.

I see a distinct difference between having the faith to know that God can bring someone back to life, and having the faith to know that he will. Definitely count me in as one who has faith that God can do that. But, unless God specifically tells me that someone is coming back from the dead if I pray for them I can only be one who has faith that he can do it, not absolutely will do it.

 

[Judges1318]

but does God WANT us to suffer, I think not.

If even Christ was made perfect through suffering, how much more me and you?

"10In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered." - Hebrews 2:10

I mean, are we really to reject his example of suffering that he left for us to walk in?

"if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps." - 1 Peter 2:20-21

 

[Deade]

I see a distinct difference between having the faith to know that God can bring someone back to life, and having the faith to know that he will. Definitely count me in as one who has faith that God can do that. But, unless God specifically tells me that someone is coming back from the dead if I pray for them I can only be one who has faith that he can do it, not absolutely will do it.

Haha... Amen on that. We have no idea what we would be bringing them back to. God could be taking them out to avert much suffering. There are many things, is our world, worse than death.

 

[TabinRivCA]

I see a distinct difference between having the faith to know that God can bring someone back to life, and having the faith to know that he will. Definitely count me in as one who has faith that God can do that. But, unless God specifically tells me that someone is coming back from the dead if I pray for them I can only be one who has faith that he can do it, not absolutely will do it.

Doubt is a major factor re faith. I understand your point of view, but I'm imagining what the Scripture, Jn 14:12 where Jesus says 'He who believes on me, the works I do shall he do and greater' has in store for those who believe. God bless.

 

[Judges1318]

"8Son though he was (Jesus), he learned obedience from what he suffered" - Hebrews 5:8

And somehow we don't have to learn obedience from what we suffer?


Another of my suffering scriptures:

"Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word."

"It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees.

Psalm 119:67, 71

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I voted that yes He does

has nothing to do with Johnson over at Bethel

Johnson over at Bethel is not your excuse for not being healed and he is not your excuse for your disbelief in the Holy Spirit or the gifts God desires to give to those He loves for the betterment of the body of Christ

You and others like you are a detriment to the Body

suffering can be allowed by God but it can also be an attack of the devil and his demons and God allows that so that His children might grow up and know how to deal with spiritual attacks and learn how to use the sword of the Spirit, which is the word as Jesus used it

it is written does not seem to enter your mind unless it is written by Calvin who also purposed to pursue and punish all who disagreed with him

 

[dcontroversal]

Is Jesus our example?

Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Suffering for the believer is purposeful, as well, and that is comforting to the suffering person.

it is also an excuse for folding the hands and saying 'alas it is God's will' when it may very well be time for the believer to get up and war in the spiritual realms

but of course that is just all nonsense to you and others who follow Calvin rather than Christ