Does John 3:16 have an “expiration date”?

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giantone

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#21
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resurrection33 said:
Do you believe the unsaved go to eternal punishment when they die, or do you believe they cease to exist?
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I believe but am not certain that you are transported to the future event of judgment But I do know the saved as well as the unsaved will see God right away. I think based on some verses in Ecclesiastes and psalms some might cease to exist but all the people going to hell will cease to be remembered to have existed by anyone. And Hell itself will be thrown into the lake of fire so hell is in hell. No one waits around Earth or in limbo or a holding place We may see a skeleton and decades go by but the spirit of the person is more gone than gone.

One thing thing that I ponder is the people who are raised from the dead, did they go to judgment, or just to God for a bit? Also I wonder if an unsaved person is capable of being raised from the dead I'm not talking about hours dead but days or weeks.

If the unsaved did get a taste of heaven till the judgment Hell would be allot more terrible knowing what they missed.
 
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Toby2

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#22
#22
lets say someone donesn't belive in God and then they see God face to face of course they are going to accept God and it would be to late, if that didn't happen there wouldn't be anyone in hell then the that worship the devil
 
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giantone

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#23
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Toby2 said:
lets say someone donesn't belive in God and then they see God face to face of course they are going to accept God and it would be to late, if that didn't happen there wouldn't be anyone in hell then the that worship the devil
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Unlike the popular stereotype of the Devil and pitchfork going to take you to hell and punish you for all eternity, the reality is that the Devil won't go to hell, he will be cast into the lake of fire with hell. But he won't be able to do anything to anyone ever again.
 
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ChristsArmorBearer

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#24
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giantone said:
Unlike the popular stereotype of the Devil and pitchfork going to take you to hell and punish you for all eternity, the reality is that the Devil won't go to hell, he will be cast into the lake of fire with hell. But he won't be able to do anything to anyone ever again.
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Your assessment is only half correct. Satan is indeed bound in hell for the 1000 of Christ's millenial reign, then he will be set free for a short period of time before the great white throne judgement, only then is he, hell and all of it's occupants cast into the lake of fire.

Funny thing is that most people do not realize that Satan has freely roamed this world ever since he was cast out heaven.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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easygoing said:
I think that you can find the answers here in luke 16: 20-26

Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.

This scripture and there in is the truth, however uncomfortable it may be. This is my belief on this matter. If we had the chance to live our entire lives with the knowledge of jesus and all his righteousness but still were kind of like, eh i like living the way i am and i should listen to jesus' word but that isn't in my agenda right now, maybe one day when i get older, right now i am having too much fun. Then bang you die. You get to hell and are like WHOA! ok jesus i believe in you now come save me please because this place sucks. This is the way we want to see it but in reality it just doesn't seem so. Reason being because you never placed your life and faith in jesus christ. It took the devil, hell and eternal torment to make you call on the lords name and ask to be saved.
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This Scripture doesn’t say the Lord won’t move you from one place to the other if he chooses to do so.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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giantone said:
I believe but am not certain that you are transported to the future event of judgment But I do know the saved as well as the unsaved will see God right away. I think based on some verses in Ecclesiastes and psalms some might cease to exist but all the people going to hell will cease to be remembered to have existed by anyone. And Hell itself will be thrown into the lake of fire so hell is in hell. No one waits around Earth or in limbo or a holding place We may see a skeleton and decades go by but the spirit of the person is more gone than gone.

One thing thing that I ponder is the people who are raised from the dead, did they go to judgment, or just to God for a bit? Also I wonder if an unsaved person is capable of being raised from the dead I'm not talking about hours dead but days or weeks.

If the unsaved did get a taste of heaven till the judgment Hell would be allot more terrible knowing what they missed.
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My suspicion, and I know I might be wrong, is that heaven is the peace of a clear conscience. When we die we simply pass on to the resurrection and live happily after with the Lord.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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Toby2 said:
lets say someone donesn't belive in God and then they see God face to face of course they are going to accept God and it would be to late, if that didn't happen there wouldn't be anyone in hell then the that worship the devil
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You make it sound like the Lord wants people to suffer. The Lord doesn’t want anyone to suffer. The Lord is good.

Simply seeing the Lord doesn’t mean a person is going to accept him as his savior, does it?
 
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NewJerusalem

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#28
#28
resurrection33 said:
Remember what John 3:16 (RSV) says:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

If a person refuses to believe in Jesus, dies and goes to hell, and then chooses to believe in Jesus after all, does he get saved, or is it too late?
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refuses to believe in Jesus, dies and goes to hell, and then chooses to believe in Jesus after all??????????

what is this? Definitely not Scriptural.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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NewJerusalem said:
refuses to believe in Jesus, dies and goes to hell, and then chooses to believe in Jesus after all??????????

what is this? Definitely not Scriptural.
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Another person told me that OF COURSE you will believe in Jesus AFTER you’ve been thrown into hell. His point was that it will then be too late to do anything about it.

I’m asking, “WHY is it too late to be saved, even if you have been put into hell? Certainly the Lord is capable of doing that, and why wouldn’t he want to? He’s not vindictive—he loves us.

[7] Whither shall I go from thy Spirit?
Or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
[8] If I ascend to heaven, thou art there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, thou art there! Psalm 139:7-7 RSV
 
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NewJerusalem

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#30
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resurrection33 said:
Another person told me that OF COURSE you will believe in Jesus AFTER you’ve been thrown into hell. His point was that it will then be too late to do anything about it.

I’m asking, “WHY is it too late to be saved, even if you have been put into hell? Certainly the Lord is capable of doing that, and why wouldn’t he want to? He’s not vindictive—he loves us.

[7] Whither shall I go from thy Spirit?
Or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
[8] If I ascend to heaven, thou art there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, thou art there! Psalm 139:7-7 RSV
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these passages do not prove, neither do they relate to your heretical view of being able to believe after you have rejected him during this life.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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NewJerusalem said:
these passages do not prove, neither do they relate to your heretical view of being able to believe after you have rejected him during this life.
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You seem to think the Lord is vindictive. He is not. I believe it is harmful to our faith for you to suggest he is.
 
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NewJerusalem

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#32
#32
resurrection33 said:
You seem to think the Lord is vindictive. He is not. I believe it is harmful to our faith for you to suggest he is.
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Has nothing to do with God being vindictive. Has everything to do with His Word, the Bible and the Truth therein. If you ignore the Truth, you may as well create within yourself your own god and image.

It only proves God is Righteous and Just and faithful to uphold His Word and Truth.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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#33
NewJerusalem said:
Has nothing to do with God being vindictive. Has everything to do with His Word, the Bible and the Truth therein. If you ignore the Truth, you may as well create within yourself your own god and image.

It only proves God is Righteous and Just and faithful to uphold His Word and Truth.
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If eternally torturing a person, for no greater sin than refusing to accept you as a savior, isn’t being vindictive, then what is?

John 3:16 tells us that we will not perish if we believe in Jesus. This will be true throughout all eternity, unless you are telling me that the Bible ceases to be true after we die.

I repeat, I think you are doing our Father in heaven a disservice by suggesting he will eternally torture people. It makes him look evil, in my opinion, when in fact he is good.
 
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Graybeard

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#34
#34
resurrection33 said:
If eternally torturing a person, for no greater sin than refusing to accept you as a savior, isn’t being vindictive, then what is?

John 3:16 tells us that we will not perish if we believe in Jesus. This will be true throughout all eternity, unless you are telling me that the Bible ceases to be true after we die.

I repeat, I think you are doing our Father in heaven a disservice by suggesting he will eternally torture people. It makes him look evil, in my opinion, when in fact he is good.
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So what you are then actually saying is that God is a liar!
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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Graybeard said:
So what you are then actually saying is that God is a liar!
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No. I am saying that the Lord will not eternally torture us. If throughout all of eternity I refuse to accept Jesus as my savior, then I will suffer throughout all of eternity, because the Lord deserves my love and only he can show me the way to happiness. However, he will not torture me. He will punish me for wrongdoing, but the purpose of the punishment is to bring me to repentance and the punishment will always be just.
 
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charisenexcelcis

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#36
#36
I believe that when we are resurrected, our nature changes. We appear, now, to be unique in having mixed natures. The best of us at times struggles with the old man and the worse sinner is capable of doing good works. The angels and demons are not so. they are either good or evil. I believe this mixed nature makes repentace and salvation possible. When we are resurrected, we will not have mixed nature, we will be either pure or evil. I do not believe that the bottomless pit is designed cruelly. I believe that for the being of pure evil, the presence of God is greater torment then separation from God. the pit provides some sort of seperation, miserable as that is. Seperation from God brings about torment that can only be described in terms of darkness and fire. But for the one who has chosen evil, it is better than the unbearable torment of the presence of a holy God. As scripture says, men love darkness for their deeds are evil.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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charisenexcelcis said:
I believe that when we are resurrected, our nature changes.
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I tend to think that if we are going to get better, we gave to make the effort to do so on our own. The Lord will show us what to do, but WE have to make the effort. I don’t believe that the Lord is going to suddenly do something “magical,” and that I, without any effort, will suddenly become a far better person than I was before.
 
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charisenexcelcis

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#38
#38
resurrection33 said:
I tend to think that if we are going to get better, we gave to make the effort to do so on our own. The Lord will show us what to do, but WE have to make the effort. I don’t believe that the Lord is going to suddenly do something “magical,” and that I, without any effort, will suddenly become a far better person than I was before.
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If you have placed you trust in Jesus Christ and in His work (which I believe you have) than you will surely be a better person. If you haven't managed in this life, there must be something "magical" about the next. lol
 
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NewJerusalem

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#39
#39
resurrection33 said:
If eternally torturing a person, for no greater sin than refusing to accept you as a savior, isn’t being vindictive, then what is?

John 3:16 tells us that we will not perish if we believe in Jesus. This will be true throughout all eternity, unless you are telling me that the Bible ceases to be true after we die.

I repeat, I think you are doing our Father in heaven a disservice by suggesting he will eternally torture people. It makes him look evil, in my opinion, when in fact he is good.
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Oh, BTW, i never said unbelievers are forever tortured in hell. Maybe, may be not. I see in Scripture that the dead return to dust and are remembered no more and also ready that teh lake of fire was created for satan and his followers, fallen angels. :)
 
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greatkraw

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#40
#40
resurrection33 said:
If eternally torturing a person, for no greater sin than refusing to accept you as a savior, isn’t being vindictive, then what is?

John 3:16 tells us that we will not perish if we believe in Jesus. This will be true throughout all eternity, unless you are telling me that the Bible ceases to be true after we die.

I repeat, I think you are doing our Father in heaven a disservice by suggesting he will eternally torture people. It makes him look evil, in my opinion, when in fact he is good.
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This is a logically absurd statement.

God defines good.

If you dont like something about him then it is you who have the problem.
 
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