Does Oneness theology (Modalism) teach a "sock puppet" view of God's nature?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Is the "sock puppet" analogy of Oneness theology a fair representation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 40.0%
  • No

    Votes: 7 46.7%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 2 13.3%

  • Total voters
    15
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
Just Truth,
When I think of God being "triune," I think of that in terms of nature. God is the Father to all who Believe. Christ is God completely (Father-Son-Holy Spirit) as the Son, like we Believers are Sons/Daughters of God (Doesn't necessarily mean Christ is God's literal Son). And the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God that lives within us and keeps us connected to God.

The Church Fathers claimed God begat His own WORD and His own Wisdom (Spirit).

Why I dislike the Greek point of view personally, everything they write is in a triune format. Their own beliefs stem from a triune pagan Goddess, their justice system is set up in a triune branch system, their legal system has 3 branches, everything they did was in a triune format. Naturally, when they translated the Aramaic Gospels, they made it "Triune," because that is how they viewed any Deity.

But my question to you is specific:
God works with humanity as either the Father, the WORD, or the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Himself in John 4 said God is a Spirit: This tells me He did not see "persons" and neither does the Holy Spirit inspire the Authors of the Bible to ever use "persons." I think if they were "Persons," Jesus would have said so! He flat out told us God is a Spirit:
So I am a big fan of Manifestations over Persons, because the Bible specifies God Manifests (The WORD manifests into flesh in 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

But how God works, is a combination of Father-Son-Holy Spirit. And these 3 are the "Same God." In that format, God is Triune, would you agree?
 
May 29, 2018
577
19
18
But if a Oneness Pentecostal had perfect English, but held onto bad theology, we still need to walk away from terrible theology.
The early fathers of Trinitarians(actually Semi-Trinitarians) come to defend the Trinity at Nicea by using the terms and wordings of oneness proponent Sabellius. Ironically, the original formulation of early Nicene Creed has a great influence from the teaching of Oneness. If Oneness doctrine is a bad terrible theology, then how come the early defenders of Trinity at Nicea using all the terms and wordings of Oneness doctrine to defeat Arianism?

Here's the video of how Oneness had a great influence to early defenders of Trinity doctrine...

 

Attachments

May 29, 2018
577
19
18
I have always looked at Oneness theology as being made up by people without a solid understanding of Greek and Hebrew, and a weak attempt to try and answer the questions of who God is. They start with the Shema in Deuteronomy 6, and then continue down a blind ally that is meaningless. I don't say this to insult people, but rather to gently show these people how lost they are. Like the video on page 1 of this thread, I also take Trinitarian belief to be salvic. Which means that Oneness is wrong, and the person is not saved.
Angela53510 you tell that the Oneness theology as being made up by without a solid understanding of Greek and Hebrew.

Are the Oneness believers a long time ago around 200 AD that constitutes a majority of Christian believers do not have a solid understanding of Greek and Hebrew?
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
Just Truth,
It appears you clearly are Pentecostal. But more specifically, are you United Pentecostal, or Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, or Independant Pentecostal?
 
May 29, 2018
577
19
18
Just Truth,
It appears you clearly are Pentecostal. But more specifically, are you United Pentecostal, or Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, or Independant Pentecostal?
Inde
Just Truth,
It appears you clearly are Pentecostal. But more specifically, are you United Pentecostal, or Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, or Independant Pentecostal?
Independent Pentecostal sir
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
Inde
Independent Pentecostal sir


Amen Brother!

I know people connected to all which I had listed and wondered if you happened to be a part of them. Were you by chance United Pentecostal or Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ before ending up Independent? I know for many that is the common route. But they still remain true to their roots.
 
May 29, 2018
577
19
18
Amen Brother!

I know people connected to all which I had listed and wondered if you happened to be a part of them. Were you by chance United Pentecostal or Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ before ending up Independent? I know for many that is the common route. But they still remain true to their roots.
Brother I am a former member of the church of Apollo Quiboloy.
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
Brother I am a former member of the church of Apollo Quiboloy.


I had to look him up. Interesting to see the "Oneness Gospel of Jesus" worldwide. But like you have mentioned in your prior posts, even when Tertullian began pushing the "trinity" idealism, there were far more who opposed him because Oneness is what the Church Fathers themselves preached.

I am an avid fan of the Disciple John's (Revelation, Gospel of John, I-II-III John) own Disciples Iggy and Polycarp. They taught and I copy/paste:

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.

^
So clearly, the Disciples of Jesus were not trinity either!

The Greek translation has distorted the Aramaic horribly and then English has butchered it that much more!
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.
^

What this is literally saying, that the WORD and WISDOM (Spirit) are not separate on their own, because they come from within God Himself and remain as Him.
 
May 29, 2018
577
19
18
God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels,
........... begat Him, emitting Him
........... along with His own wisdom before all things.

but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
........... His holy Word which was always present with Him.
^

What this is literally saying, that the WORD and WISDOM (Spirit) are not separate on their own, because they come from within God Himself and remain as Him.
I agree the WORD and WISDOM is not separate from God.
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
I agree the WORD and WISDOM is not separate from God.


All throughout Scripture, every belief where there are a triune theism, like Baal, Witchcraft, Paganism, God had the Hebrew People go to war and destroy these people. Common Sense should be shouting very loud here: if God killed triune idealisms, why would God Himself be triune?
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
I totally believe in God the Father, the WORD, and the Holy Spirit. In titles alone I buy the triune view. But nowhere in Scripture does Jesus or the Holy Spirit inspired writers of the Books of Bible ever say they are "Persons." Interpretation made them seem to be Persons. What we do know for certain and as a fact, Jesus did say, GOD is a Spirit:! And Jesus was making it very clear here!
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
464
83
The Word of God is clear and specific that God manifests Himself. He did so to become flesh. He did so the Holy Spirit could live inside us because the full power Holy Spirit would kill us. There are 60 examples of God Manifesting in the Bible. I totally believe in it!
 
May 29, 2018
577
19
18
I have always looked at Oneness theology as being made up by people without a solid understanding of Greek and Hebrew, and a weak attempt to try and answer the questions of who God is. They start with the Shema in Deuteronomy 6, and then continue down a blind ally that is meaningless. I don't say this to insult people, but rather to gently show these people how lost they are. Like the video on page 1 of this thread, I also take Trinitarian belief to be salvic. Which means that Oneness is wrong, and the person is not saved.

.
Angela53510 you tell that the Oneness theology as being made up by without a solid understanding of Greek and Hebrew.
Are the Oneness believers a long time ago around 200 AD that constitutes a majority of Christian believers does not have a solid understanding of Greek and Hebrew?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,956
113
Angela53510 you tell that the Oneness theology as being made up by without a solid understanding of Greek and Hebrew.
Are the Oneness believers a long time ago around 200 AD that constitutes a majority of Christian believers does not have a solid understanding of Greek and Hebrew?
Let's see! How many Bibles were in existence in 200 AD? No Textus Receptus at all. Very few Alexandria, probably no Caesarean or Western. How many people owned or had access to a NT? Other than some of the leaders, almost none.

So which Christian believers are you talking about?

Finally, show me some evidence that second century believers believed in oneness doctrine. I think by the huge fight between Arius and the rest of the church, early on the third century AD, there were a few, who were considered heretical, because none of the church councils accepted, Arius and his doctrine.

The plurality of God is found in both the NT & OT. The Shema, in Deut 6 says, "Hear oh Israel, the Lord is one!" The word for "one" is Echad, which means "one of many." It is used elsewhere for "one bunch of grapes." So although there is only one bunch, there are many grapes.

God is one in plurality, or, God is one in three. God is a Trinity. One ousia, three hypostasis.

Don't bother answering me unless you come loaded with quotes from reputable sources. Oh wait...there are none!
 
May 29, 2018
577
19
18
Oneness theology (Modalism), practiced by groups such as United Pentecostal Church and other Oneness Pentecostals, claims that the orthodox Christian teaching of the Trinity is a false invention of the Roman Catholic Church.

They often claim that the term is not biblical because the specific word "Trinity" is not mentioned in the Bible. They do not understand that, while the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, the concept certainly is.

The Trinity doctrine teaches that there is one God, in terms of being or essence, who is three in terms of Person; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These three Persons are distinct, and have always existed in loving relationship with one another.


The original Nicene Creed is not Trinitarian.



Oneness Pentecostalism teaches that there is one God, but denies that there are distinct Persons. Instead, they believe that the three Persons of the Godhead are only manifestations, and are not distinct Persons.
UnitedWithChrist how about the Hypostatic Union is there the distinction of the Divinity and humanity of Christ?
The Holy Spirit is the one Spirit of the Father in action.

I call Oneness Pentecostalism "sock-puppet theology". In their view, God is only one Person, but he dons different sock-puppets to interact with mankind. There is one puppeteer, God (YHVH), but the three Persons are simply three different sock-puppets that fit on his hand. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not distinct Persons.

So, according to their theology, we are expected to believe that the Son, who is really the Father in flesh, is talking to the Father when he prays.
The proper to analyze Oneness theology that God is only one Person concerning his Divinity or Deity(who is the Father), but during the Incarnation the humanity set in(Christ human). There is the distinction between the Father and Son, as the distinction between the Deity and humanity, but then like a Hypostatic Union the distinction of Deity and humanity of Christ is in single unified.


My question would be, do you think this analogy fairly represents Oneness theology?
Your analogy is a misrepresentation of Oneness theology