Does the Bible only "whisper about" sexual sin like SBC President JD Greear claims?

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Does the Bible only "whisper about" sexual sin like JD Greear says?

  • Yes

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  • No

    Votes: 12 100.0%
  • I don't know

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    12

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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#1
This is a quote from JD Greear (quoting Jen Wilkin):

“‘We ought to whisper about what the Bible whispers about, and we ought to shout about what it shouts about.’ And the Bible appears more to whisper when it comes to sexual sin compared to its shouts about materialism and religious pride.” (From a sermon on Romans 1:24-32, January 27, 2019 at The Summit Church)

My position is that if God says it once, he isn't whispering about it.

But, does the Bible whisper about sexual sin?

Has JD Greear read the book of Corinthians? Has he read Romans? Has he read the Bible?

Where did these "church leaders", seeking compromise with the world and to make themselves appealing to it, come from?

Romans 1:18-32 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Hebrews 13:4 4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

Galatians 5:19-21 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

Colossians 3:5-7 5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming. 7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them
(ESV Strong's)

I could spend a lot of time and bandwidth listing out the Scriptures that pertain to this topic.

Here are some questions:

1. What Scripture show us the enormity of sexual sin?
2. What has human history shown us about the devastation of sexual sin since the Fall?
3. Why do we have so many false shepherds like Greear that are minimizing the impact of Scripture and its warnings and commands?
4. Why are so many Christians practicing premarital or extramarital sex in the Church?
5. Why are churches opening up to the idea that it is acceptable to retain any sin as part of their Christian identity?
6. Does Scripture teach that God's moral law no longer applies, and that such sin is inevitable for a believer?
7. Is it hypocritical to identify immoral behavior?
8. How does church discipline (or the lack thereof) affect the level of sexual immorality within professing Christianity?

Note that I have not been guiltless even as a believer in these areas, but at no time did I deny that my activities were exceedingly sinful. Actually, I wish that some believer had taken me aside and corrected me on the issue strongly, perhaps even threatening me with disfellowshipment. But, that would have been pretty impossible since my activities were hidden from view during that time period.

What really bothers me, though, is that alleged Christian leaders are promoting a weak morality by their words. I suspect that some of them may be caught up in sexual immorality, and they are basically accusing anyone who might correct them as being a hypocrite.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,471
915
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#2
This is a quote from JD Greear (quoting Jen Wilkin):
“‘We ought to whisper about what the Bible whispers about, and we ought to shout about what it shouts about.’ And the Bible appears more to whisper when it comes to sexual sin compared to its shouts about materialism and religious pride.” (From a sermon on Romans 1:24-32, January 27, 2019 at The Summit Church)
My position is that if God says it once, he isn't whispering about it.
Note that I have not been guiltless even as a believer in these areas, but at no time did I deny that my activities were exceedingly sinful. Actually, I wish that some believer had taken me aside and corrected me on the issue strongly, perhaps even threatening me with disfellowshipment. But, that would have been pretty impossible since my activities were hidden from view during that time period.
What really bothers me, though, is that alleged Christian leaders are promoting a weak morality by their words. I suspect that some of them may be caught up in sexual immorality, and they are basically accusing anyone who might correct them as being a hypocrite.
I'm not trying to defend anyone, by this post, but I would say I'd have to know what kind of context he was saying this in... I mean, was it in the setting of the time period that other pastors (in the nation) were [let's just say] doing the opposite (without going into detail, here).

I mean, because the first thing that popped into my head (not knowing the context of his words / message) was the following verse that PERHAPS *could* have been at the forefront of his mind (in such a context as I am suggesting *may* have been the type of setting existing [in the nation] at the time [??], prompting his words, possibly [!]), and that verse is:

"For it is shameful even to mention the things being done by them in secret." Ephesians 5:12





(and this verse is in the context of what v.3 had just said, "But let sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness not even be named [G3687 - * onomazó ] among you, as also is proper to saints ; *G3687 - onomazó- "From onoma; to name, i.e. Assign an appellation; by extension, to utter, mention, profess -- call, name.")


[I'm just suggesting this as A POSSIBILITY that this could have been the kind of CONTEXT/SETTING (in the country at the time) of such a comment, and the motivation behind the words, not to say, "don't ever speak on it," but to mind the manner in HOW one speaks on it, see (per the "context" of what might have been taking place elsewhere in the country, by other "speakers," at that time)]

3. Why do we have so many false shepherds like Greear that are minimizing the impact of Scripture and its warnings and commands?
I'd have to know the CONTEXT of his words, to tell whether his motive was to "minimize it" ;)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#6
It was sexual sins that led to the downfall of Solomon. For being a wise guy he sure acted like an idiot as slow, but sure, he turned his back on God in pursuit of worldly pleasures.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#7
This person is obviously a false teacher with some kind of agenda. No need to waste time on him.
Never heard of him and not inclined to read his perceptions on spiritual matters.
 
Mar 21, 2009
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#8
I would have to know what he meant by it. Does he mean we should not go into graphic details about sexual sins people have committed. It is a shame to even speak of those things which they do in secret?
 

DWR

Active member
Apr 27, 2020
214
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#9
My Bible never whispers, it shouts very loudly about every subject.
Hurts my ears sometimes.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,358
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#10
It was sexual sins that led to the downfall of Solomon. For being a wise guy he sure acted like an idiot as slow, but sure, he turned his back on God in pursuit of worldly pleasures.
And his father_ He arranged the death of Bathsheba-s husband among other doozies. Yet He knew our Father better than almost any believer today, and the guilt of his transgressions were not held against him. Please do not bring up the blood guilt which prevented his construct of the first Temple, I speak of the guilt of his transgressions.

We should all have such faith.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,358
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#11
You may ask the Father or the Son. God is spirit and would be worshipped in spirit and truth. The thought of sex to the Spirit is an abomination, however we have been instructed to multiply, and fill the earth...……….do not think this is anything other than what it says. Come the Kingdom there will be no necessity of multiplying for the number will have already been attained in this age, never to be repeated.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,676
1,906
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#12
I would have to know what he meant by it. Does he mean we should not go into graphic details about sexual sins people have committed. It is a shame to even speak of those things which they do in secret?
He was speaking on Romans 1, and the context was homosexuality.

So, he was making light of homosexuality in particular.

Here is the transcript:

https://jdgreear.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Copy-of-4-Romans-1-24-32-Judgment.pdf

I'm also attaching to this post in pdf form in case the link becomes broken.

Unfortunately, Paul says otherwise in 1 Corinthians 6:9.

An unrepentant homosexual is under God's condemnation, no question. Whether they are a professing believer or not.

And, the act is confusion. It is obvious that the person who is engaging in it is blatantly involved in a rejection of God. It isn't hard to figure out looking at human anatomy.

Paul uses it as the epitomy of depravity in Romans 1, and anyone with any degree of discernment can see this.

By the way, former homosexuals would agree that Greear is twisting Scripture in this regard.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,676
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#13
He was speaking on Romans 1, and the context was homosexuality.

So, he was making light of homosexuality in particular.

Here is the transcript:

https://jdgreear.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Copy-of-4-Romans-1-24-32-Judgment.pdf

I'm also attaching to this post in pdf form in case the link becomes broken.

Unfortunately, Paul says otherwise in 1 Corinthians 6:9.

An unrepentant homosexual is under God's condemnation, no question. Whether they are a professing believer or not.

And, the act is confusion. It is obvious that the person who is engaging in it is blatantly involved in a rejection of God. It isn't hard to figure out looking at human anatomy.

Paul uses it as the epitomy of depravity in Romans 1, and anyone with any degree of discernment can see this.

By the way, former homosexuals would agree that Greear is twisting Scripture in this regard.
Just a clarification...when I say that the unrepentant homosexual is under God's condemnation whether he is a professing believer or not, I am assuming that his profession is false...

And I am not denying that there are real believers who struggle with this sin. That is why I said "unrepentant". I am assuming unrepentant individuals are unregenerate.

I don't think any believer struggling with the sin is under God's condemnation because they are in Christ, no matter how much they have failed. But, if they are claiming homosexuality as an identity, this is an entirely different story.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,471
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#14
I would have to know what he meant by it. Does he mean we should not go into graphic details about sexual sins people have committed. It is a shame to even speak of those things which they do in secret?
Yes, this is what I was referring to in my Post #2 (this type of thing), esp like in the context "from a pulpit" before a congregation setting.

I seem to vaguely recall this being the Subject of a big Convo out there, in the not-too-distant past, with one side saying "yes we should," the other side saying, "no we shouldn't" (and they were meaning, as the point of the convo, "go into graphic detail" of such sins).

Even the op said, "Actually, I wish that some believer had taken me aside and corrected me on the issue strongly..." (as opposed to "openly broadcasting"... and I'm sure they would agree: except in the event of "unrepentance," but even then it should be done in an appropriate manner, and not just for the sake of "openly broadcasting every sordid detail" and in front of, say, even small children, etc etc... ;) There is an appropriate manner in which to address these "biblical" issues, and I am wondering IF PERHAPS the quote in the OP has stemmed from just such a context... [one I seem to vaguely recall being out there, in recent years (as a big Point of Discussion), as I said])

It is a shame to even speak of those things which they do in secret?
(y)


Yes, if *this* kind of thing was AT BACK of his comment/quote, then this is an entirely different matter from that of "disregarding Scripture" (as in, "minimizing Scripture"), and perhaps not reflecting that kind of motive at all... but who am I to say for sure...
 

lenna

Active member
Jun 2, 2020
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#15
I would have to know what he meant by it. Does he mean we should not go into graphic details about sexual sins people have committed. It is a shame to even speak of those things which they do in secret?

No one has to go into graphic detail. Paul does not go into 'graphic' detail yet makes himself very clear.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#17
Hello @UnitedWithChrist, I don't believe that this passage has been posted yet, so I thought I would do so now. What I find to be most interesting about it is how it begins (see the underlined portion below). How often have we wished for the same kind clarity about other spiritual matters? A "whisper" :unsure: I think it is far more than that!

1 Thessalonians 4
3 This is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;
4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God.

~Deut

1 Thessalonians 4
7 God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.
8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man, but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.