Does the 'revelation of Jesus Christ' bring us HS understanding, as Joyce Meyer says?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

GreenNnice

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2011
9,171
59
0
Excellent work Machine!
IT's judging, is that so excellent, abiding squirrel. :(

I think that we just need to stop , I could point out your error in un-understanding Joyce Meyers' saying she is no longer a sinner, because she is clothed in the garment of righteousness, which covers ALL our sins when we believe. Sure , we sin, sinned, will sin, to say 'no' to that is 1 JOhn 1:8, as you versed, machined. But, yeah, I am not mocking you at all, I simply nic people and if you don't like your nic let me know, it's not hard to do, just tell me :) abiding just gets confused , but I do it in Love, I don't say things 'in kind' to hurt you back, not that you've said anything to hurt me, you haven't and you can't, the Holy Spirit works all things through before I hear them and before I write about them. Good to know, huh :) This I pray is truth, anyway, as me, left to my own devices is no good just as I mentioned Romans 3 and you repeated what I said there. Agreed?

but, there is no way you and I are going to agree on Joyce Meyers' compassionate response to her congregation and that the Holy Spirit IS in Joyce Meyers. Don't you get that?? Can't you (and your 'excellent work' person get that ??? It's NOT about you, it's not about me, it's about Him, and, His revelations come to us THREE ways: power (just like Jesus given power on EArth, 'course, Jesus IS God, so understand it correctly :) ) , Holy Spirit, and, this is for us, not Jesus, but 'deep conviction,' and, yes, I bring to your understanding, machined, 1 Thessalonians 1:5 .

))))))))))))))))))This here is needing spoken about, yeah, I said I wouldn't say too much, I lied :D ))))))))))))))))))))
[/quote]
GreenNice said
” Yes, it is in line with Scripture, like I've been saying all along in this thread, sarahm7s, we are human, we have humanity in us, and, it's not good, none of it, if you read Romans 3 you will understand that truth. We ALL sin, but we are also ALL covered by the blood of Christ, we are cleansed from all unrighteousness. Without the shedding of 'blood,' there is no freedom for man. Christ's blood set the captives' free, the veil was torn. This is NOT symbolic meaning, this is not 'dispensational,' as some like to call it, it is literal, truth
Joyce Meyers, in her ministry, unveils the truth, she does not false teach, she embellishes, as do ALL pastors, they all add their own HUMANITY to their sermons, their own DESCRIPTIONS of how things went, LIKE Joyce Meyer describes of Jesus' carrying His own cross and others mocking Jesus as He went in His humanity to His own torture, as humanity, some who probably loved him surely began to shout insults at Him, and, Satan DID love that seeing of Jesus' treatment by mankind 'killing' Him.” [/quote]


You go on to say if you read your above post, machined, that this is Jesus in hell. No, it's not, it's Jesus ON EARTH, this is where he was mocked, and, men that utter evil are under the INFLUENCE of Satan, just are. Satan IS inside them at work, just like he began the crucifiction work with entering Judas Iscariot, who then would soon betray Jesus .

So, you are getting things in a most un-excellent understanding of what I was saying and what Meyers was saying, so, try hard--ah, that's a most un-excelllent thing to say, too. Just don't try anymore. It just ends up being divisive, call me meangreen one more time and I will 'rap' you too. Now, don't take that too hard, machined, just read what Peter said to that magician, Bar-Jesus, in Acts 13, he really SHREDDED him face to face for trying to get others to 'turn from the faith.' LOL, you ain't turning me from the faith, but your crummy, mean, name-calling is horrible and un-excellent, don't do it ever again, k. Talk, debate, say stuff, fine, but, your not nicnaming me by doing that, you are DISPARAGING me. Understanding this revelation RIGHT NOW, machined, better ;)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
158
63
Question: "Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?"

Answer: Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price.

The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it and claim it" originated) was combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin, in turn, studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with.

At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God's sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god.

From here, its theology just strays further and further from Scripture: it claims that God created human beings in His literal, physical image as little gods. Before the fall, humans had the potential to call things into existence by using the faith-force. After the fall, humans took on Satan's nature and lost the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ gave up His divinity and became a man, died spiritually, took Satan's nature upon Himself, went to hell, was born again, and rose from the dead with God's nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to replicate the Incarnation in believers so they could become little gods as God had originally intended.

Following the natural progression of these teachings, as little gods we again have the ability to manipulate the faith-force and become prosperous in all areas of life. Illness, sin, and failure are the result of a lack of faith, and are remedied by confession—claiming God's promises for oneself into existence. Simply put, the Word of Faith movement exalts man to god-status and reduces God to man-status. Needless to say, this is a false representation of what Christianity is all about. Obviously, Word of Faith teaching does not take into account what is found in Scripture. Personal revelation, not Scripture, is highly relied upon in order to come up with such absurd beliefs, which is just one more proof of its heretical nature.

Countering Word of Faith teaching is a simple matter of reading the Bible. God alone is the Sovereign Creator of the Universe (Genesis 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15) and does not need faith—He is the object of faith (Mark 11:22; Hebrews 11:3). God is spirit and does not have a physical body (John 4:24). Man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6), but this does not make him a little god or divine. Only God has a divine nature (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8). Christ is Eternal, the Only Begotten Son, and the only incarnation of God (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15, 18; 3:16; 1 John 4:1). In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). By becoming a man, Jesus gave up the glory of heaven but not His divinity (Philippians 2:6-7), though He did choose to withhold His power while walking the earth as man.

The Word of Faith movement is deceiving countless people, causing them to grasp after a way of life and faith that is not biblical. At its core is the same lie Satan has been telling since the Garden: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5). Sadly, those who buy into the Word of Faith movement are still listening to him. Our hope is in the Lord, not in our own words, not even in our own faith (Psalm 33:20-22). Our faith comes from God in the first place (Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 12:2) and is not something we create for ourselves. So, be wary of the Word of Faith movement and any church that aligns itself with Word of Faith teachings.

Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and Christianity in Crisis: 21st Century by Hank Hanegraaff.

Read more: Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?
 

GreenNnice

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2011
9,171
59
0
ohzone, tell me where the Joyce Meyers is saying that 'You shall be as God' if you can understand the Holy Spirit's work in you that I want to reveal to you? Tell me. I'm all for it IF it's true, that is, all for not liking what Joyce Meyers is doing.

Again, you are from a reformed theology camp that does not believe in the 'power' that was Jesus' from His Father in Heaven, that He shows us on Earth, part of 'the way, the truth, the (abundant) life (on earth,' don't you think (not said sarcastically) ?

What, therefore, can come of Holy Spirit understanding for you IF you are not believing in the power of pastors and preachers who speak healing to people. I believe it. I believe that I've been healed from someone praying over me, at least, hmm, I felt better afterward of my 'thorn' afflicting me. God does, sometimes, heal quickly, miraculously, like someone I know from my church, who was dying quickly of a rare blood infection/disease and he needed his blood count up or he was going to deteriorate quickly, and, die. Hearing this, people from my church (yes, you know I am AOG, I think) came to the hospital and prayed for him. He was not miraculously healed of the infirmity but the doctors could then operate because his BLOOD COUNT was up :) Now, you call that what you want, I call it 'power,' and, I call it 'the Holy Spirit,' and, I call it 'faith' of the person in the hospital bed and also those who showed up to pray. God works like this ! Ohzone, why can't you understand that Joyce Meyers' preaches that we, too, like my church friend, can be CHANGED by the power of God working though us.

I think, often, that God works His work through we who are His workmanship without our even knowing it, He wants us to be a 'pure vessel,' and, then he can use us, greatly, too, I think. :)

So, I'm from the ones who didn't branch off in 1300 age time and follow Luther reformation, I believe that God works the gifts of His spirit in us today. God is spirit. He works through us and we work through Him in us, through faith, by the power of faith, just like Jesus did, who worked, Acts 12, think it is, says, that Jesus work was by 'power,' and, by 'the Holy Spirit' who was IN Jesus. :)

And, machined, I am not mad at you, I am simply showing tough love, same you squirrel, I think it's wrong to disparage others, especially with posting afterward on it, now, will this sort of thing happen is a reality. But, we, as His, should know to show Love as He wants us too, and, breaking down fellow brothers and sisters who believe doctrine differently but STILL believe in the same foundation who is Jesus Christ, should be for each other, ultimately, even in our doctrinal differences :)

God bless you and forgive me if I am too hard on you, the Lord leads, He is who I work for ! I am His :) You are, too, right :)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
Green was Paul wrong for publically rebuking Peter? Are you judging me rebuking me publically?
Are we told to judge? Do you even know the entire doctrine of discernment and judging?
I havnt even given the scoop on her and how her web of false teachings go together. Would you like that?
Are you provoking me to?
Green just to help you out publically, you really are not familiar with her teachings, your sorta
mesmerized and infactuated with her. Fine, but you have never really studied the whole of her
teachings against the word, yet you defend her. How can you do that and expect any respect?
thats why i dont bother with you most of the time.
 
Last edited:
L

ladylynn

Guest
May 30th, 2009#50NiteGem
Guest
Re: Joyce Meyer: Do you like or dislike her? Explain!


Hi, I’m new here. : )

Forgive me butting in…I’d like to contribute my thoughts.

I’ve read and enjoyed Joyce Meyer’s books. They spoke to me and moved me, and inspired me to get out my bible and become closer to God.

I conducted a brief internet search on the subject of the over-priced toilet. More than one source identifies the item in question as an antique “commode,” not a “toilet.”

According to this website, it was donated to her ministry:

http://www.philcooke.com/Joyce_Meyer_toilet

However, I can’t seem to find a corroborating source…although I did find that there are quite a few people more than anxious to skewer Joyce Meyer at any opportunity.

As to the disagreement here, there may be a simple solution. Apparently some people benefit from Meyer, and some do not. Those who do not may easily choose to avoid her.






This is very much appreciated IMO.

John McGarther, Hank Hanegraaff, and other Christians say this is the Word of faith movement WOF or the Penticostal movement and who they think is a part of this movement and even if some should even be attached to this system of belief by phrases used or comments said.



Christians must have convictions based on their Biblical understanding. It's when we begin to judge individuals that it becomes very wrong. Anyone can say something is unscriptural based on terms like WOF movement. Anyone could say I'm a WOF person and be wrong too. Or say I'm lacking maturity and am following people instead of God.


Question: "Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?"

Answer:
Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price.



I don't listen to these folks and have never been drawn to their preaching after hearing them. Never did a study on them just didn't find them my cup of tea.






The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it and claim it" originated) was combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin, in turn, studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with.


I don't aliegn myself with "mysticism and heretical" or the mumbo jumbo Mr. Hank Hangraaff writes about. I name God's word as the truth and claim it as the truth. I have no power myself but God's word has power and faith is believeing in God's word. Faith gives us the power to live a victorious life. "Faith is the victory, oh glorious victory that overcomes the world"




At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God's sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god.









Good grief I am not in any way using God's word as a magical hex for Pete's sake!!!!! "force of faith" ??:eek:operating independantly from God?? no way. Jesus said without Him we can do nothing. God loves me, I am sitting in heavenly places-positionally. My identity is IN Christ.

I no longer am under the law of sin and death. I claim verses daily and when we sin we can go to Him without shame and guilt and can claim His promises. Now I'm no longer following the old manner of living = hating myself & ashamed to go to God for forgiveness, severing fellowship with Him by thinking I must pay for my unworthiness by holding on to guilt and shame in an attempt to appease and pay God back. :( all because no one taught me that God is not mad nor is He interested in my works to pay Him back. Jesus already paid for my sanctification. So I can come BOLDLY to the throne of Grace to recieve forgiveness. :D


Jesus already paid the price of my sin. Why do we try to pay by being worms? We r not worms anymore, we are sons and daughters :) We have access to God through Christ. I must claim that position that Jesus Christ already made available. If we do not live the truth, we will live a lie. That is what I've learned from Joyce's style of teaching over the last few years. No one will make me have faith., I have to trust in the Lord with all my heart and lean NOT to my own understanding....


HE says to confess my sin knowing -He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Thank You Lord!! :D





From here, its theology just strays further and further from Scripture: it claims that God created human beings in His literal, physical image as little gods. Before the fall, humans had the potential to call things into existence by using the faith-force. After the fall, humans took on Satan's nature and lost the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ gave up His divinity and became a man, died spiritually, took Satan's nature upon Himself, went to hell, was born again, and rose from the dead with God's nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to replicate the Incarnation in believers so they could become little gods as God had originally intended.


What in THEEEYYY world??????? !!
Jesus was 100% God and 100% man without a sin nature. He took on the likeness of sinful flesh but was without sin. He finished the work ON THE CROSS. "Jesus was the 1st born of many bretheren."

I never knew Adam and Eve "called things into exsistense" and never heard Joyce do hexes LOL You guys need to quit thowing many of us christians under the bus reputationally. I don't believe I'm a god.:eek: I am one of God's daughters. I now have the Holy Spirit in me and am the likeness of God but NOT a god. I want to be a reflection of Jesus but will not be perfect until I'm glorified in my new glorified body when this corruptable has put on incorruptable.








Following the natural progression of these teachings, as little gods we again have the ability to manipulate the faith-force and become prosperous in all areas of life. Illness, sin, and failure are the result of a lack of faith, and are remedied by confession—claiming God's promises for oneself into existence. Simply put, the Word of Faith movement exalts man to god-status and reduces God to man-status. Needless to say, this is a false representation of what Christianity is all about. Obviously, Word of Faith teaching does not take into account what is found in Scripture. Personal revelation, not Scripture, is highly relied upon in order to come up with such absurd beliefs, which is just one more proof of its heretical
nature.




The absurd thing here is being labeled using this guy Hank Hanegraaff words . Personal revelation is what each Christian has., something we develope more as we read the Bible. Beginning when the Holy Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the Sons of God. Then we take in the meat of the word and grow to maturity and learn to decern. If speaking in tongues is not what I feel I should do, I will NOT do it. But that does not mean you who do speak in tongues are of the devil or that I am of the devil or just immature for not doing it.

This you posted about WOF people is a misrepresentation of what I believe and now I'm sure what Joyce M. has been teaching for the last few years since I've been listening to her and am not a bonofied WOF person either. What a warning to study study study before u call someone a heretic.





Countering Word of Faith teaching is a simple matter of reading the Bible. God alone is the Sovereign Creator of the Universe (Genesis 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15) and does not need faith—He is the object of faith (Mark 11:22; Hebrews 11:3). God is spirit and does not have a physical body (John 4:24). Man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6), but this does not make him a little god or divine. Only God has a divine nature (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8). Christ is Eternal, the Only Begotten Son, and the only incarnation of God (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15, 18; 3:16; 1 John 4:1). In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). By becoming a man, Jesus gave up the glory of heaven but not His divinity (Philippians 2:6-7), though He did choose to withhold His power while walking the earth as man.




Amen and Amen to the above paragraph., I hold to all that too., this man Mr. Hank Hanegraaff does not have a corner on Bible accuracy because he uses these verses. ;)



The Word of Faith movement is deceiving countless people, causing them to grasp after a way of life and faith that is not biblical. At its core is the same lie Satan has been telling since the Garden: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5). Sadly, those who buy into the Word of Faith movement are still listening to him. Our hope is in the Lord, not in our own words, not even in our own faith (Psalm 33:20-22). Our faith comes from God in the first place (Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 12:2) and is not something we create for ourselves. So, be wary of the Word of Faith movement and any church that aligns itself with Word of Faith teachings.

Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and Christianity in Crisis: 21st Century by Hank Hanegraaff.







This is a sad misrepresentation of christians who have been naming and claiming God's word and memorizing scripture and livinig lives free from self condemnation and the lies the devil said about them for years. Holy Spirit conviction is not condemnation. Son's are chastened, disciplined not condemned.

Joyce said she didn't start growing until she realized she was not a sinner but a saint. Not being condemned but convicted. God chastens those whom He loves. Like many of us christians, she was too caught up in "the things I want to do I don't do, and the things I don't want to do I'm ever doing..... Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?? oh thank God HE WILL!! We claim our inheritence and in that have no more condemnation. Separate your "WHO from your DO" She said that is what freed her from the shackles of shame from being sexually abused and the guilt that goes with such abuse. God is so wonderful to take the messes of our lives and make something beautiful out of it. God bless you guys. Ladylynn




Read more: Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?
 
Last edited:
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
178
0
I fell asleep before I read all that. Could you post it again please?:p
 
Nov 16, 2012
96
7
0
(2 Thessalonians Chapter 3)

If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.15Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.



Okay, I think this should probably be my last post on this thread, or at least there is a 64% chance.
Ladylynn, God Bless your enthusiasm. Forgive me, but your post is a bit scattered. I think you are saying that Joyce is good and we should all live and let live and love and let love. I get it and again God bless you and as a sister I love your desire to defend what you see as the good fight. I would like to point out that “Name it ,Claim it” as you describe it differs from what Joyce describes. You say that you Name and Claim the Word of God, awesome!!! Joyce says that if you NAME anything, you can CLAIM anything. It goes with her whole “words are containers of power” idea and that differs from your insight which I am inclined to agree with a lot more than JM’s approach. As you said God has the power ,Joyce says “words” have the power. God bless you!


On that point Mr. Green Jeans( I called you MeanGreen after the juice drink and because you threatened to “shred” anyone who came against Joyce M and that seemed a bit mean, but some people’s mean is another person’s tuff love)And I haven’t been trying to offend you at all in the nic names,I see you do it and figured you could handle some playful retort.



Zone, please forgive me for answering a question directed at you, but if I may…..
This words have power approach that Joyce teaches is putting us as people in the driver’s seat, and that is where God should be ,hence Joyce by way of preaching manifest destiny is preaching that we are small “g” gods of our own lives.


words are containers for power they carry creative or destructive power positive or negative power so we need to be speaking right things over our lives and about our futures if we expect to have good things happen because what you say then is what you probably end up having tomorrow”....Joyce Meyers



I can be as positive as I want, thinking on Him all day, every day and praising Him for every situation bad or good that befalls me because simply put , HE is God and he deserves our praise for everything.
I don’t be positive to expect to have good things, or to insure good things happen to me. That would be me showing God that I deserve more than what he has already given me. And as the worst sinner I know, I know what I deserve and I am thankful every day that He sent His Son to pay that price for me and that’s why I praise and glorify His Holy name!



Zone, that is my response to his question for you, sorry if it misses your mark I just wanted to answer it for the great distract-er(never seen anybody go so far away from a point to try and make a point).

So now that it has been pointed out can you see it? Don’t worry,I know you don’t and that’s fine Green.


As for your words directed at me, I am not mad at you either. Whew, glad that’s out of the way. I also do not wish to disparage others publicly or privately for that matter. I was hoping you would have a better reply than “ Tuff Love” and then to retract all the way back to “just love one another regardless of doctrine”.

So far you have justified Joyce’s false teaching by saying that
a) a) It was a long time ago and she is forgiven for her mistake

b) b) She is embellishing for theatrical effect

c) c) She didn’t really mean what she said

d) d) It was a long time ago

e) e) She helps folks so she can’t be bad

f) f) Doctrine shouldn’t divide us

g) g) Stop disagreeing with me, it’s just divisive



h) You’ve even said that you could point out my un-understanding because Joyce means something else when she says she is sinless. Even though she says, I don’t say it ,she does” I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore .


Not only does my doctrine not line up with Joyce but by your own words, neither does yours! You said “we are human, we have humanity in us, and, it's not good, none of it, if you read Romans 3 you will understand that truth. We ALL sin, but we are also ALL covered by the blood of Christ, we are cleansed from all unrighteousness”

Again I agree with you, and Joyce says SHE STOPPED SINNING.

Pointing out her false teaching brings me no joy brother, nor does it make me happy that you and I are at odds on this issue. Being Nice is one thing, accepting flaws is noble, but believing out right heresy is wrong, and promoting it to others in the name of God is worse than just wrong.




(2 Thessalonians Chapter 3)

15Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

The Machine
 
P

psychomom

Guest
words are containers for power they carry creative or destructive power positive or negative power so we need to be speaking right things over our lives and about our futures if we expect to have good things happen because what you say then is what you probably end up having tomorrow”....Joyce Meyers

So...we have a family member caught up in the WOF movement. She got cancer, and believed her faith would heal her.
She "claimed" healing.
She believed faith alone was what was required to be made well. Her words were all positive, and she allowed no talk of anything but being made well by her faith.
She believed her sister died of cancer ONLY because she didn't believe hard enough.

We held her funeral yesterday. :(

"The power of life and death is in the tongue" does NOT mean what these people teach it does.
It's a destructive teaching, and not Biblical.
Our family's story is just one of many, sadly, and it kinda makes me angry.

 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
So...we have a family member caught up in the WOF movement. She got cancer, and believed her faith would heal her.
She "claimed" healing.
She believed faith alone was what was required to be made well. Her words were all positive, and she allowed no talk of anything but being made well by her faith.
She believed her sister died of cancer ONLY because she didn't believe hard enough.

We held her funeral yesterday. :(

"The power of life and death is in the tongue" does NOT mean what these people teach it does.
It's a destructive teaching, and not Biblical.
Our family's story is just one of many, sadly, and it kinda makes me angry.

Never mind the fact that neither Paul nor Timothy were healed,and God even told Paul NO. (Like Paul didn't have enough faith) :rolleyes:
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,465
168
63
I dont know about joyce Meyers, as have never listened to her.

But, Jesus said, I will send the Holy Spirit to remind you of everything I taught you.
Now He said this to the apostles, but scripture speaks to not trusting in ones own understanding, but that given by God through the Holy Spirit.
I also like in psalm 23, the verse that says...
He will lead you in paths of rightousness for His names sake.
I consider this verce often, as there is much revieled in it. :)

God bless
pickles
 
L

ladylynn

Guest

It is a sad situation when we take scripture and try and make it say what we think instead of what God's word says and provides. That is another reason to keep reading the Bible and asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to our hearts for each day. I lived for years with my own understanding of doctrin as I rightly divided the word of truth. Doctrin without the love of God is like sounding brass and tinkling cymbols. empty and hollow, without substance. God's Love is the highest law that rightly interprets the other scriptures.

I have to ask your forgiveness TheMachine for my scattered postings. The cut and paste and trying to answer by paragraph is a talent I don't have yet. Will work on it. :)


Psychomom, I am so sorry for your family member who died of cancer. I agree that we do not have power apart from the Lord. Why it is that some people are healed and some are not is a mystery only God really knows. Many innocent people suffer on earth daily and there is no answer for why except we live in a sinful world. Creation groans under the weight of it all. But we have to trust God no matter what our outward circumstances. I work with the sick and dying and see how our bodies get old and the life goes out of us. It is not pretty. BUT praise GOD it isn't the end. Jesus delived us from sin and death. Your loved one is with the Lord and not in that coffin. :)

1 Tim 6:6 And it is, indeed, a source of immense profit, for godliness accompanied with contentment (that contentment which is a sense of inward sufficientcy) is great and abundant gain.
7. For we brought nothing into the world, and obviously we cannot take anything out of the world.

Paul said he had learned to be content in whatever situation he was in Philippians 4:11 Not that I am implying that I was in any personal want, for I have learned how to be content (satisfied to the point where I am not disturbed or disquieted) in whatever state I am.
12. I know how to be abased and live humbly in straitened circumstnaces, and I know also how to enjoy plenty and live in abundance. I have learned in any and all circumstances the secret of facing every situation, whether well-fed or going hungry, having a sufficiency and enough to spare or going without and being in want.
13. I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me (I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me; I am self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency)

This is such a truth to have in our hearts. We can be joyful while on the way to where we need to be. To be able to wait in joyful anticipation. :) To know we are ok while we are on our way. We don't have to wait to be joyful because God loves us the same as if we were made perfect in heavenly places because that is how He sees us, in His Son Jesus. That is why the joy of the Lord is our strength. :D

You are so right TheMachine on sensing my enthusiasm. Sickness and death cannot control our joy when we are in Him. Faith is the victory that overcomes the world... just like that old song says.

Joy is something we can have even when dealing with the horrors of life. It can't be taken away from us because Jesus secured it for us. We take ahold of it by faith. Daily. We ask for help daily and trust daily. It is a renewing each day to grow and keep growing. We have not attained but we strive to keep on learning.
He promises that we will have victory in Him. It's a done deal. We have joy today if we want it. Looking at life through His truth and not our limited emotions. Chosing to believe Him and not our circumstances.

And just like the OT saints who were thrown to the lions they said they would not bow down to the king and if God delivered them or if God did not deliver them they would still follow God and praise Him. They knew the truth. Thank You Lord!! :) ladylynn :)



 

chasten

Senior Member
Dec 29, 2011
113
2
0
Could you show me where Jesus,the Disciples, or Paul ever taught this. Can you show me where it is in the Bible?
Oh, you mean the part where Jesus was nailed to cross, brutally tortured, and killed? Or the part where we are healed by his stripes? Maybe the part where I implied that I dont beleive his sacrifice should ever be forgotten, and there are many people who dont him the credit that deserves. Sorry to say but, contrary to popular beleif, Jesus' death was not lollipops and roses, it was horrible, awful, and painful. And sometimes we need to fully understand exactly what God has done for us, and the acrifice that he actually made for our generation before we can love God, in the sense of trying to understand that pain that he lived through so that we may be made complete. And just because you are past the point of needing that revelation does not mean that there are not other people who still need theat revaltion, and who benefitted from that lecture. :)
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Oh, you mean the part where Jesus was nailed to cross, brutally tortured, and killed? Or the part where we are healed by his stripes? Maybe the part where I implied that I dont beleive his sacrifice should ever be forgotten, and there are many people who dont him the credit that deserves. Sorry to say but, contrary to popular beleif, Jesus' death was not lollipops and roses, it was horrible, awful, and painful. And sometimes we need to fully understand exactly what God has done for us, and the acrifice that he actually made for our generation before we can love God, in the sense of trying to understand that pain that he lived through so that we may be made complete. And just because you are past the point of needing that revelation does not mean that there are not other people who still need theat revaltion, and who benefitted from that lecture. :)
That is not what I asked about,I asked about this part from what Joyce Meyer said. From your previous post

The Devil thought he had it, the devil thought he had won. Oh they were having the biggest party that has ever been had. They had my Jesus on the floor and they were standing on his back jumping up and down laughing and he had become sin. Don’t you think that God was pacing wanting to put a stop to what was going on. All the hosts of hell were up on him, up on him, up on him. The angels are in agony, all the creation is groaning. All the hosts of hell was up on him, up on him, they got on him. They got him down in the floor and got on him and they were laughing and mocking, “haha you trusted God and look where you ended up. You thought he would save you and get you off that cross – he didn’t haha.”
Joyce Meyer

Where is any of that in the Bible? Book,chapter and verse please. Thanks
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Oh, you mean the part where Jesus was nailed to cross, brutally tortured, and killed? Or the part where we are healed by his stripes? Maybe the part where I implied that I dont beleive his sacrifice should ever be forgotten, and there are many people who dont him the credit that deserves. Sorry to say but, contrary to popular beleif, Jesus' death was not lollipops and roses, it was horrible, awful, and painful. And sometimes we need to fully understand exactly what God has done for us, and the acrifice that he actually made for our generation before we can love God, in the sense of trying to understand that pain that he lived through so that we may be made complete. And just because you are past the point of needing that revelation does not mean that there are not other people who still need theat revaltion, and who benefitted from that lecture. :)
Sorry,I also never said that Jesus death was lollipops and roses,even though "The Passion of the Christ" was as graphic as it was,(original version not the one with some of it taken out) it still was not the totality of the true horror of what Jesus went through.
 

chasten

Senior Member
Dec 29, 2011
113
2
0
That is not what I asked about,I asked about this part from what Joyce Meyer said. From your previous post



Where is any of that in the Bible? Book,chapter and verse please. Thanks


Oh! No, look up above my post, I just quoted someone else who quoted Joyce Meyer.
The bible does tell us that the battle we face is not physical, but spiritual. And that anything not of God, is of Satan. Therefore, the demonic spirits of this world probably were laughing and carrying on. I doubt they were sitting in the front row, with teardrops thinking of how sad the whole process was. I'm sure if there really is a Satan, he was probably doing about what Joyce Meyer implied. Now whatever your personal concern as to what level or ctriteria she took it too, is up to your own discretion, I am not at odds to discuss your personal feelings on the matter, as that should be solely between you and God. FYI. I dont wanna know. I was simply stating, that Joyce Meyer, made a very good point. Hate to say this, but some people nee3d a singular point pounded into their head, before they actually get the picture. That lecture could have een intended for someone in the crowd, the holy spirit working through her to gra somkeones attention for the revelation of Jesus Christ. We never know. I'm just saying, everything Joyce Meyer said was technically probably true. Just because it didnt strike your fancy, doest mean it was blasphmous. If you have hard feelings about it, then pray. Tell God your sorry that happened to him, and you wanna give him a hug or whatever, but dont blame Joyce Meyer, since none of us actually know whether or not Jesus was making a point or not?
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
Oh! No, look up above my post, I just quoted someone else who quoted Joyce Meyer.
The bible does tell us that the battle we face is not physical, but spiritual. And that anything not of God, is of Satan. Therefore, the demonic spirits of this world probably were laughing and carrying on. I doubt they were sitting in the front row, with teardrops thinking of how sad the whole process was. I'm sure if there really is a Satan, he was probably doing about what Joyce Meyer implied. Now whatever your personal concern as to what level or ctriteria she took it too, is up to your own discretion, I am not at odds to discuss your personal feelings on the matter, as that should be solely between you and God. FYI. I dont wanna know. I was simply stating, that Joyce Meyer, made a very good point. Hate to say this, but some people nee3d a singular point pounded into their head, before they actually get the picture. That lecture could have een intended for someone in the crowd, the holy spirit working through her to gra somkeones attention for the revelation of Jesus Christ. We never know. I'm just saying, everything Joyce Meyer said was technically probably true. Just because it didnt strike your fancy, doest mean it was blasphmous. If you have hard feelings about it, then pray. Tell God your sorry that happened to him, and you wanna give him a hug or whatever, but dont blame Joyce Meyer, since none of us actually know whether or not Jesus was making a point or not?
Oh,I got it,we just to take her word for it that it happened because "god" told her,but didn't bother to tell Jesus that this was somehow important for us to know (If it is even true in the first place),nor did God tell Peter,James,John,or Paul about this either. All we have is Joyce Myers word for it. So we have no Biblical way of testing it to actually see if it is from God or somewhere else because it isn't in the Bible. Yet we are told to "test" the spirits and line it up with the Word.
So how does one line this up with the written,revealed Word of God? See for all we know she got it from somewhere else or perhaps she is lying. At worst she is adding things to the written word which we are not suppose to do in the first place. Shouldn't that make one ask the question Where is she getting this from? (I don't think this is coming from the Lord)
 

GreenNnice

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2011
9,171
59
0
No problem, machined, forgiven. And, just be true to Him, He leads you. 'meangreen,' juice? Pathetic. When you apologize, be TRUE :) You didn't say 'meangreen' for the juice, and, you know it, and, I know it (abiding and psychomommy know it too, don't you ;) ) But, God's forgiven us, just like Joyce Meyers, forgiven anything said that was not of Him, and, so, she is repentant and leading of the Lord's work through her life as His 'workmanship (Eph. 2:10) way past the sea of forgotten stuff she's said in past not quite sounding right, not that I am thinking either/or of 'Jesus in Hell,' do we REALLY know what went on in Hell, besides that Jesus 'ministered to the prisoners' there??? ? Do we know? Do we care ! Doctrine !! Believe what you want, FAITH!! Get OVER it !!! :)

Oh, and, psychomommy, not being facetious, but your friend that died, sorry she did, she's in Heaven now, we can hope and pray, but hopefully you did NOT mock her because she had the faith of Abraham, that she believed God's words to her (revelation? Yes, revelation!!) that God would heal her and she, hopefully, has enough of a faith that NOT all things we go through in life happen PERFECT as we want, but I flat-out guarantee you, things happen PERFECT for His plan for our lives, including your friend who died who prayed, maybe even 'in the name of Jesus,' for her friend to be healed of cancer. Well, God works how He wants in us, and, NOT everyone who gets healing lives. Some die. It's ALL in God's plan. :)

____________________Anyway, I want to stay on topic (and happy mother's day, pm, I know you have kids, yer a mom :) ) and here, again, is Joyce Meyers' revelation understanding and she wants her congregation to get this, NOT the hell sermon of 20 years ago of Jesus in helll, I KNOW, because it caused sooo much controversy now, so, THAT is why she recanted it, she does not want others to think that way, plus, it's EVIDENT in her statement of faith she believes in ONE GOD : God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit :) . See it. Beleive it.

I pray God reveals His truth more and more in you, through however He may :) His spirit not just walks with you, but LIVES in you, does this compute???? LIVES IN YOU. He REVEALS ALL TRUTH to you, too. I don't know what that 'truth' is, but He does, and, things just might not make sense , DID they make sense for Abraham taking his son, Isaac, up the mountain to KILL him. He was going to KILL him !!!! Sure, Abram said he would be getting a lamb at the top but IF there was no lamb at the top he was following through, wasn't he. The knife was raised !!! Right? ? :) Ready to plunge down, fatally, into the flesh of his son, Isaac?? Yes !!! And, God showed up !! An angel of the Lord put a hand on Abe's hand right BEFORE 'the plunge.' :)

Our God is sooo great, trust in Him. Live in Him. He does live IN YOU :)

How, green?

Like Abraham, Christ peeps, boldly, calling people OUT when they are telling false lies, about you, about God.

But, how, green?

By faith :)
___________________











What We Believe

Statement of Faith


The Bible is the infallible Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and contains every answer to man's problems.

2 Timothy 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:20,21

There is one God, existing eternally in three persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

John 10:30; John 14:26; Philippians 2:5-7

God is Love and He loves all people. It is His desire to reach out to those who are poor, oppressed, widowed or orphaned, and to heal the brokenhearted.

Psalm 68:5,6; 1 John 4:16

Man is created in the image of God but separated from God by sin. Without Jesus we cannot have a relationship with God.

Genesis 1:26; 1 Timothy 2:5

We can have a personal relationship with God through salvation, God's free gift to man. It is not a result of what we do, but it is only available through God's unearned favor. By admitting we have sinned and believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, and accepting Him as Lord, we can spend eternity with God.

Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 5:1; Romans 3:24

We believe in water baptism, as taught and demonstrated by Jesus, as the way for believers to identify with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

Matthew 28:19; Romans 6:4; Matthew 3:13-17

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a gift from God. He helps empower the believer to develop the character of Christ and live every day in God's will.

Matthew 3:11; Acts 2:4

God gives all believers spiritual gifts. They are for the strengthening of God's people (the Church) and proof of God's existence and power to unbelievers. The gifts of the Spirit are active and relevant today.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11; 1 Peter 4:10

Sanctification is the ongoing process of allowing God's character to be developed in us.

Romans 6:19; Galatians 5:22-25

Divine healing is active in the lives of people today through Jesus, who is the Healer. Healing includes physical, mental, emotional and spiritual restoration.

Luke 9:11; Matthew 9:35; Acts 10:38; Matthew 10:1

The Bible describes hell as a real place. It is a place of suffering and a place of permanent separation from God for those who die without accepting Christ. God's desire is that no one be separated from Him for eternity, which is why He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth.

Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 20:12-15; John 3:16-18

Jesus will return and take all those who have accepted Him as Savior to be with Him for eternity.

Acts 1:11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; Hebrews 9:28





Related


Download Statement of Faith (pdf)


Download Adobe Reader







| En Espanol
| About Us | What We Believe




Broadcast

TV
Radio
Podcasts
Magazine

Missions

Who We Are
What We Are Doing
Who We Work With
What Is Happening
Blog
Hand of Hope Internships
Adoption and Foster Care

Everyday Answers

Helpful Articles
Daily Devotional
Prayer
Share Your Story

Events

Conferences
Women's Conference
International Conferences
Why Should I Attend?
Speaker & Band
Share Your Experience
Get Involved
FAQ








 
Last edited:

GreenNnice

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2011
9,171
59
0
I made bold the belief in ONE God part because some think that because Joyce Meyers said that the Son of God was dead IS not what she belives, she believes in ONE God..... :)

The audio of 'Jesus in hell' from 20 years ago recorded message may be not right exactly in all parts, (all sermoners make mistakes, it's called 'humanity,' what Jesus showed us on Earth, by the way :) ) , Anyway, she BELIEVES in ONE God... ./ Got that? One God :) Jesus is God