Does the 'revelation of Jesus Christ' bring us HS understanding, as Joyce Meyer says?

TheMachine · May 14, 2013

Again, I am sorry for your loss , both of them, and I too have seen this situation happen. Recently a friend lost his wife to an awful disease and was told during her fight that both he and his wife just required more faith and she would be fine. After she passed there was an announcement that people were "confused", and "how could this have happened" and so on.

The easiest explanation is that it was His will. Often times we can't see that due to our own grief but I digress. The problem with these prosperity evangelists who push this heresy is that they put our will ahead of Gods will and rather than having us as His children search to find His glory in all situations we demand God provide explanations as to why He does what He does. God doesn't answer to us, but regardless of some very pretty mission statements and faith statements, we have "Spirit Filled" teachers that try and place God in the hot seat by their false doctrine and anti-biblical rhetoric.

On the other side of the coin, someone whom I consider to be one of my best friends went through the exact same thing. His wife spent 2 years fighting cancer and graduated leaving 6 kids and a wonderful husband behind. During that 2 years all they did was praise God for the many blessings they received. They shared the gospel at every turn and reached out to help others in similar circumstance reflecting true faith at every corner. Many came to know Christ through the trials of these folks and the work the Lord did through them.

He is made perfect in our shortcomings and imperfections, we just need to get out of His way and help bring His awesomeness to the forefront, rather than focusing on ourselves.

God Bless you and comfort you and your family.

The Machine

PS I posted this as to not be rude and hit "like" on such a grave and moving post.

ladylynn · May 14, 2013

Joyce Meyer is not a -prosperity evangelist; word of faith; false doctrine; anti biblical rhetoric; heretical preacher that many of you have accused her of being. She has never preached that if someone believes hard enough and good enough they will get well from cancer or any other illness. Or that christians should not go to a doctor or health care professional or it shows they have no faith in God. And as a women who has defended Joyce's preaching, I am also in the line of fire as you have declared I follow out of ignorance and love the preacher not the Lord Jesus.

Joyce had breast cancer and went through that kind of fear too. She shares with the brethren that she has learned not to ask "doesn't God love me?" But instead learned that He who called is also faithful. God does love her and promises never to leave no matter what her health issues turn out to be. His love never fails us.
And as a good sister in Christ she encourages the brethren by sharing her journey about cancer., the fears and the joys.

They found she had cancer from her yearly mamogram. It was very deep and could have easily been missed., It was of a serious nature but the surgeon got it all before it would have went all through her system. It's been lots of years and so far the cancer hasn't come back. She goes for regular check ups.

And like most women, she saw she was out of shape and if she didn't begin to take better care of herself she would not live as long as she might unless she ate better and built up her muscles for her back issues.
Not the voice of someone who believes what you guys are posting.

Joyce Meyer has never advocated NO doctor, dentist.,surgeon., Says also if you eat cookies you will INDEED get fat no matter how much "faith" you have to the contrary...

I DO agree with Joyce Meyers and others like her who have found out about God's Love for us and His daily prospering us. We prosper each day in Him. If some of you do not feel joyful and prosperious I'm sorry. He has promised to meet all our needs and even our wants. Yes even our WANTS. He gives over and above to those who do not deserve it. I'll type that again...DO NOT DESERVE. He gives not because we are deserving but because HE is good. Grace is abounding in our lives as christians. If some of us are religious-doctrinally-sound-sour pusses than something is a-mis... Not with God or with happy christians who prosper. and not with Mrs. Meyers either. I can say this because I was not living a joyful life. It wasn't God's fault, it was mine. We CAN cast down wrong imaginations and instead take up God's word and say it daily., memorize it and say good things not bad things. His word is real. His love is a fact. It meets the deep need we have inside. It fills us with what we needed all along.

It is not our "job" as christians to protect God. He is very well and able to protect Himself. We need not be Holy Spirit Juniors either. We are called to love. That is our FIRST and highest duty as Christ's ambassators. To love., to be restorers, to be like Jesus. Children and adults are drawn to happy joyful christians. Not stern, hard, frowney, strict, critical, mean christains who make it their business to find the chink in anyone's armor and pick at it until they make a huge hole of someone's reputation. No one can find joy in this kind of behavior.

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if any person is overtaken in misconduct or sin of any sort, you who are spiritual (who are responsive to and controlled by the Spirit) should set him right and restore and reinstate him without any sense of superiority and with all gentleness, keeping an attentive eye on yourself, lest you should be tempted also.

2. Bear (endure, carry) one anothers burdens and troublesome moral faults, and in this way fulfill and observe perfectly the law of Christ (the Messiah) and complete what is lacking (in your obedience to it)

3. For if any person thinks himself to be somebody (too important to condescend to shoulder another's load)
when he is nobody (of superiority exept in his own estimation) he deceives and deludes and cheats himself.

4. But let every person carefully scrutinize and examine and test his own conduct and his own work. He can then have the personal satisfaction and joy of doing something commendable (in itslef alone) without resorting to boastful comparison with his neighbor.

5. For every person will have to bear (be equal to understanding and calmly receive) his own (little) load (of oppressive faults).

Paul says we need to learn to get along with eah other. We will have to put up with things we don't like. All the people around us are not going to think and speak and act the way we want them to. But forgiving them is part of what we must do as members of the body of Christ. Not everyone is going to be or do what we want, but we can forgive them and love them anyway. (Ampl.Bible Notes)

Hallowed be His name. Lynn

GreenNnice · May 14, 2013

psychomom said:

Too many pronouns?

psychomommy, don't people realize when they are being mean? Sigh

'

Anyway, I could care less to even talk about this anymore, but will for sake of understanding, the Lord leads, His revealing for us all whatever He wants, like machined says, we NEED to get out of the way and just follow, that IS what I am doing right now

God bless you for your faith in Him, ellie, milady, and, NO, I was never saying you were mocking anyone, I just said, I prayed you would not mock someone who believed in God (yes, a doctrinal difference) a little different in their ways of how He healed; your

face was a CLUE that you were in disagreement that your friend dying was not a good way. It was ! It was His way

). You can say you are not of a different doctrine than your friend who believed in God's healing for her all you want, and, that;'s fine, but you are.

So what if she died of cancer, the Lord leads, He LEADS.

It's NOT sad to me whatsoever that she died, HEY!, el, your friend is IN HEAVEN

And, yes, this quote is the sad face that I was referring too. It's not this way for me though, it's this way: "We held Alice's funeral yesterday."

I would not put a sad face, that is all, of course, it was a tough thing for you to lose someone you knew well. a family member, but, yes, I believe, this is ME speaking, that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with her faith in believing God would heal her. Don't you hear of people who are healed AFTER the doctor's said they have a terminal disease, like, yes, cancer?? I'm sure you do, el, I'm sure you do. And, if you choose to believe that or not is between you and He who made thee, I CHOOSE my human response to be that it was a MIRACLE, and, God used others , to strengthen all involved faith.

A story: I am currently taking a bible study class Wednesday nights at my church. Someone there spoke of a story of their being in the hospital and the doctors said he was going to die. He had a infirmity that needed surgery but the doctors could not operate because his blood count was too low. So, having had the faith to tell others of his dire situation, this man was prayed over in the hospital by those who came by his bedside. And, guess what

The blood count rose and he was able to be operated on and so the operation happened and he was made better.

Now, I have a funny feeling that he was having faith in God too, speaking like we are supposed to in the bible for things to be done, anyway, do what you want, but I would CALL out to Jesus IF I was sick terminally and I would cry to Him for help and I would do so until He had either healed me or taken me Home

zone · May 14, 2013

Joyce Meyer Ministries
Physical Healing Scriptures

All Bible references are from The Amplified Bible.

Many people believe that God is able to heal them but they aren’t sure whether He will heal them. If that’s you, then I want to encourage you to carefully read each of these scriptures.

Notice how much God wants to heal His children. You don’t have to do something to earn His love or His healing touch—just believe what He says and do what He tells you to do.

Start by speaking these verses aloud. Meditate on them. Believe them. That’s how we release God’s power to heal—by speaking His Word and trusting His ability and His willingness to heal all of our diseases.

Psalm 103:1-3
BLESS (AFFECTIONATELY, gratefully praise) the Lord, O my soul; and all that is [deepest] within me, bless His holy name! Bless (affectionately, gratefully praise) the Lord, O my soul, and forget not [one of] all His benefits—Who forgives [every one of] all your iniquities, Who heals [each one of] all your diseases.

Psalm 118:17
I shall not die but live, and shall declare the works and recount the illustrious acts of the Lord.

Psalm 147:3
He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds [curing their pains and their sorrows].

Proverbs 4:20-22
My son, attend to my words; consent and submit to my sayings. Let them not depart from your sight; keep them in the center of your heart. For they are life to those who find them, healing and health to all their flesh.

Exodus 23:25
You shall serve the Lord your God; He shall bless your bread and water, and will take sickness from your midst.

Proverbs 3:7-8
Be not wise in your own eyes; reverently fear and worship the Lord and turn [entirely] away from evil. It shall be health to your nerves and sinews, and marrow and moistening to your bones.

Jeremiah 17:14
Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved, for You are my praise.

Matthew 9:20-22
And behold, a woman who had suffered from a flow of blood for twelve years came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His garment; for she kept saying to herself, If I only touch His garment, I shall be restored to health. Jesus turned around and, seeing her, He said, Take courage, daughter! Your faith has made you well. And at once the woman was
restored to health.

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in every way and [that your body] may keep well, even as [I know] your soul keeps well and prospers.

Mark 16:17-18
And these attesting signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; they will pick up serpents; and [even] if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will get well.

Matthew 4:23-24
And He went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news (Gospel) of the kingdom, and healing every disease and every weakness and infirmity among the people. So the report of Him spread throughout all Syria, and they brought Him all who were sick, those afflicted with various diseases and torments, those under the power of demons, and epileptics, and paralyzed people, and He healed them.

Matthew 8:16-17
When evening came, they brought to Him many who were under the power of demons, and He drove out the spirits with a word and restored to health all who were sick. And thus He fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, He Himself took [in order to carry away] our weaknesses and infirmities and bore away our diseases.

James 5:14-15
Is anyone among you sick? He should call in the church elders (the spiritual guides). Andthey should pray over him, anointing him with oil in the Lord’s name. And the prayer [that is] of faith will save him who is sick, and the Lord will restore him; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

Confession for physical healing: “I know that it’s God’s will for me to be healthy and whole. I praise the Lord and thank Him for healing all of my diseases as I put my faith and trust in Him.”

zone · May 14, 2013

ladylynn said:

documentation please.

GreenNnice · May 14, 2013

Zone, it's not about you, oh, zone, you KNOW this. There is super, natural power in God's will for our life, He heals us, but He, sometimes, uses others. Yes, sometimes, He just shows us His will through the revelation of our OWN believing in His work. But, sometimes, He wants to INCREASE our faith, as 1 Cor. 3 says, and, in order for us to INCREASE our faith, we MUST plant, we MUST water, we MUST move !!

Hmmm, why should you not want to do something for HIm, it's not about earning His Love, it's about following His lead, and, we do so in FAITH. What's so hard to grasp here?

You're just going to read the bible and do what, ohzone? His SPIRIT LIVES in YOU. What's going to happen AFTER you've read the bible and have understanding via His Holy Spirit showing you understanding? ? Are you going to move ?

Graybeard · May 14, 2013

zone said:

some promises:

Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

zone · May 14, 2013

Graybeard said:

YAY!!! but.....why haven't i gotten that Benz i WANT?

Ariel82 · May 14, 2013

[h=3]James 4[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

4 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? [SUP]2 [/SUP]You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet[SUP][a][/SUP] you do not have because you do not ask. [SUP]3[/SUP]You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Adulterers and[SUP][b][/SUP] adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

[SUP]6 [/SUP]But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”[SUP][c][/SUP]

[h=3][/h][SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Graybeard · May 14, 2013

zone said:

gee I dunno...that's between you and God....maybe you been a very naughty girl!
or maybe you just being greedy?

zone · May 14, 2013

GreenNnice said:

"Notice how much God wants to heal His children. You don’t have to do something to earn His love or His healing touch—just believe what He says and do what He tells you to do."

QID PRO QUO.

IF you do this, God will do that.

He WANTS to do this and and that, but He can't UNTIL you release God’s power to heal by DOING this and that.

so THIS is fraudulent, and is NOT the true God: "You don’t have to do something to earn His love or His healing touch"

do NOT tell me that isn't what she is saying, because i can post a hundred faith-is-a-force; you-create-your-own-reality by your words/statements, okay?

"Start by speaking these verses aloud. Meditate on them. Believe them. That’s how we release God’s power to heal—by speaking His Word and trusting His ability and His willingness to heal all of our diseases. "

zone · May 14, 2013

Graybeard said:

did He promise to meet all of our wants or not?

GreenNnice · May 14, 2013

ohzone, why do you need a benz? Are you asking for that for His reason for you? Because i'm sure you've heard of people who God calls into the mission field and WHAM!, they put their house on the market immediately and it sells immediately, like it sells in 30 hours, NOT 30 days . I've even heard of one couple who were called to be missionaries and their house sold in SIX hours.

The Lord leads. And, IF that benz is going to HELP you do His work, YOU will get THAT benz

The Lord leads. Follow, listen, see, watch, understand, get = revelation

And, let's add, getting that benz would certainly be Holy Spirit understanding

I am not, necessarily talking about the W.O.F. movement either, but I am talking about the power of God at work in our life

ladylynn · May 14, 2013

zone said:

Joyce Meyer Ministries
Physical Healing Scriptures

All Bible references are from The Amplified Bible.

Many people believe that God is able to heal them but they aren’t sure whether He will heal them. If that’s you, then I want to encourage you to carefully read each of these scriptures.

Notice how much God wants to heal His children. You don’t have to do something to earn His love or His healing touch—just believe what He says and do what He tells you to do.

Start by speaking these verses aloud. Meditate on them. Believe them. That’s how we release God’s power to heal—by speaking His Word and trusting His ability and His willingness to heal all of our diseases.

Psalm 103:1-3
BLESS (AFFECTIONATELY, gratefully praise) the Lord, O my soul; and all that is [deepest] within me, bless His holy name! Bless (affectionately, gratefully praise) the Lord, O my soul, and forget not [one of] all His benefits—Who forgives [every one of] all your iniquities, Who heals [each one of] all your diseases.

Psalm 118:17
I shall not die but live, and shall declare the works and recount the illustrious acts of the Lord.

Psalm 147:3
He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds [curing their pains and their sorrows].

Proverbs 4:20-22
My son, attend to my words; consent and submit to my sayings. Let them not depart from your sight; keep them in the center of your heart. For they are life to those who find them, healing and health to all their flesh.

Exodus 23:25
You shall serve the Lord your God; He shall bless your bread and water, and will take sickness from your midst.

Proverbs 3:7-8
Be not wise in your own eyes; reverently fear and worship the Lord and turn [entirely] away from evil. It shall be health to your nerves and sinews, and marrow and moistening to your bones.

Jeremiah 17:14
Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved, for You are my praise.

Matthew 9:20-22
And behold, a woman who had suffered from a flow of blood for twelve years came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His garment; for she kept saying to herself, If I only touch His garment, I shall be restored to health. Jesus turned around and, seeing her, He said, Take courage, daughter! Your faith has made you well. And at once the woman was
restored to health.

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in every way and [that your body] may keep well, even as [I know] your soul keeps well and prospers.

Mark 16:17-18
And these attesting signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; they will pick up serpents; and [even] if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will get well.

Matthew 4:23-24
And He went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news (Gospel) of the kingdom, and healing every disease and every weakness and infirmity among the people. So the report of Him spread throughout all Syria, and they brought Him all who were sick, those afflicted with various diseases and torments, those under the power of demons, and epileptics, and paralyzed people, and He healed them.

Matthew 8:16-17
When evening came, they brought to Him many who were under the power of demons, and He drove out the spirits with a word and restored to health all who were sick. And thus He fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, He Himself took [in order to carry away] our weaknesses and infirmities and bore away our diseases.

James 5:14-15
Is anyone among you sick? He should call in the church elders (the spiritual guides). Andthey should pray over him, anointing him with oil in the Lord’s name. And the prayer [that is] of faith will save him who is sick, and the Lord will restore him; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

Confession for physical healing: “I know that it’s God’s will for me to be healthy and whole. I praise the Lord and thank Him for healing all of my diseases as I put my faith and trust in Him.”

You see zone, I read this and it's beautiful. I was healed in my heart and all these verses apply. We do not see the same things when we read these same verses. Could you stop for just a second and maybe consider that being different is....actually.... ok? God is big enough to handle both you and I on our different paths of growth. Lynn

psychomom · May 15, 2013

Green, I am sorry that my comment about the pronouns was seen as mean. It definitely was not my intention.
I honestly realized that without using names, it was confusing. The overuse of pronouns is one of the biggest things I taught my kiddos in writing classes, so...I was critiquing my own writing there. I hope you will forgive me.

We had just come from this family members funeral. Surely you can understand the pain of a loss like that, for all involved.
Surely you can empathize with those closest to her.
Alice left a husband sick with advanced Parkinson's and five children between 21 and 29. It's sad.
For them.
Yes, they know she's in a better place. Yes, they rejoice over that.
But they also have to learn to live without wife and mother on this earth.

I do not say her death was outside the will of God. I'm just sad, that's all.
The grief process takes some time.

psychomom · May 15, 2013

ladylynn said:

Lynn...you DO realize there are believers who do not live in the western world, and who are in deprivation, and suffering, and being persecuted? Where is this life for them?
And there are believers IN the western world who are struggling just to give their children food and put a roof over their heads?

How should this 'gospel' effect their lives? What are they doing wrong, in accepting gratefully what the Lord has provided for them, and in learning to be content with it?
How can they have what you describe?

GreenNnice · May 15, 2013

psychomom said:

The Lord leads, and, yes, OK, psychomommy, if pronouns just a grammar thing, my sorriness is in order. I was schooled on writing with less vagueness in college and that was one way how, LOL, to have less pronouns, so, I just didn't understand then your pronouns, nothing new there, you try living with these green brains

I'm not saying anything, that I know of, anyway, that's disparaging of your death situation, dear Lord, no, amen. I simply have said that you believe a different way than Alice regarding healing, maybe, it's not doctrine, I don't want to split hairs with you over definition.
And, if anything, I am highly supportive of your friend situation, I think.

I am letting you know that I believe your friend was following the Lord's leading and she is with Christ now.

I hope to go to Him the EXACTLY same way, believing He will heal me, even if He don't, OK, fine, at least I believed

I want to be faithfully following Him and there is no reason in the world to think that God was not personally speaking to your family friend, Alice. I don't know what Alice said to you, I am not there with you, but, I can guess, Alice was WITH God believing she would be healed until the moment of her passing, and, then, she was out of her corruptible body and with Christ, just as Scripture tells us. "To be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord." Again, one can split hairs, psychomommy over if one is dead asleep sleeping in Christ or is actually in spirit form with Christ, I believe the latter, but, either way, it's with Christ and your friend is with Christ and her death was DEFINITELY not outside the will of God, He knows, I pray you can have peace and assurance, milady, el, of that truth .

God wants Alice's kids and husband to be strong and realize that Alice was strong to the end, and, her end,for her, was the beginning of a time of living that is beyond what we here on Earth can even try to compare . Alice's husband should have the same kind of faith as Alice, I am not there now but that is how it is with God and I am not sure about what kind of thing advanced Parkinson's is but the Lord will work through that situation in a miraculous way I am certain IF that husband of Alice's has FAITH. I am not saying either that that husband will necessarily live, but his faith in God being in complete control of his situation will reverberate throughout your whole family and friends, and, God may be using him to witness of him in his dying days. it may seem not good but when a person who's life is devoted to Christ dies that is an incredible thing of blessing for all who know Him, should be, anyway, the Lord leads, milady, He knows this whole situation so well, so well, beyond anything we can reason and he wants those around still on Earth to be strong in their weakness, in their sadness, in their grief process, in their time of slowness, letting Him be a still small voice of understanding and hope and revelation, too, of how what seems bad, and, evil, of outscomes, like Joseph put in pit by his brothers, is really going to be made good by God later on. Alice's dying will bring 'fruit' to your family, this I pray, el, Dear Lord....Amen

GreenNnice · May 15, 2013

psychomom said:

If those in the non-western world are in Him, with faith in Him, they gain Christ, Phillipians 3:8 , think it's that verse, tells us, and, if not it's 4:7, but, yes, psychomommy, they 'gain Christ.' And ,that peace will pass all understanding of the situation of poverty and pain and suffering they are in. I think , in Africa and other third world largely made areas are spititually with Christ more, they have seen Him at work because of the very poverty of the situations of their life and God just shows up, often, to show He is there abba Father, and, will provide for them.

We in the western world just don't need so much tending to, we are to believe from The Word and the Holy Spirit and the deep conviction (1 Thessalonians 1:5) that comes with having believed the Gospel

TheMachine · May 15, 2013

Graybeard said:

I think that you may be confusing God with Santa.....wait,your name is graybeard....do you think you are Santa? Or are you Gandolf?

And GreenNice should be upset with you for "guess" judging Zone. If it is between her and God who are you to throw in the maybe questions?

The Machine

Graybeard · May 15, 2013

TheMachine said:

who rattled your cage?...she asked me....I answered

Does the 'revelation of Jesus Christ' bring us HS understanding, as Joyce Meyer says?

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