Does this offend you? A Bible Study

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DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#1
John6:35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.”
42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[a]Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[b] from the Father comes to Me.
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[c] has everlasting life.
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For My flesh is food indeed,[d] and My blood is drink indeed.
56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.
58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

I made Jesus's word in bold! Aren't you proud of me?


So...Thoughts?

One question I have, WHAT offended them?
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#2
John6:35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.”
42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[a]Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[b] from the Father comes to Me.
46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[c] has everlasting life.
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For My flesh is food indeed,[d] and My blood is drink indeed.
56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.
58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

I made Jesus's word in bold! Aren't you proud of me?


So...Thoughts?

One question I have, WHAT offended them?
Greetings,

You know I read through 6 John, and this exchange between the Judeans and Jesus, there is just so much in it to consider, we're in deep theology territory here, I just keep on going back to where Jesus says "I am the bread of life", so it's figurative and he does give His body, He gave His fleah and blood at the cross, so to partake in the "bread of life" His body, eating and drinking by metonymy meaning consumption instead of what you believe sustains you i.e. bread, this 'bread' Jesus says is heavenly it sustains life eternally, you consume (eat and drink) or mentally digest this knowledge as truth - words from God. This idiom of eating and drinking God's words would have been known to those whom God had actually dealt with, for example Jeremiah 15:16; "Thy words were found and I did eat them; and Thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart, for I am called by Thy name, O, Lord God of Hosts." This idiom of eating and drinking truthfull words would have been well known to true Israelites, eating meant also enjoyment, it really meant this. The Lord always speaks of 'devouring' as well this is like eating that is what it represents and there is a certain enjoyment to it. The Lord's words could thus be understood by the hearers.

Look what His true diciples said, at first they were concerned because this harsh idiom would not be understood by the Jews, but the true diciples knew what it meant and they get it exactly right "You have the words of eternal life" and this is the meaning that was understood by those given to Him by the Father.
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#3
At first glance it appears that they were offended by the eating of the flesh.If you look at the verse right before it says that many left at that point, and if you look at Jesus's response it shows you something else. This topic today causes many to become offended.
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#4
Jesus was referring to a blood Covenant (HENCE WHY WE TAKE COMMUNION.. "I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE" We take bread in remembrance of Jesus' flesh.. Drink something in remembrance of Jesus' blood.),
at the time they did not know what He was talking about. More than likely they were thinking He was suggesting cannibalism that is why He said "Does this offend you" .. Meaning do you UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEAN... Do you want to walk away ALSO? Most of the time they didn't know what Jesus meant.

For example....

John 2
1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
2 Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.
3 And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”
4 Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”

As you can see here Mary told Jesus that they were out of wine. Interestingly enough they were having a feast and they were actually out of wine. But much like communion and in Jewish tradition.. Wine symbolizes blood.
Jesus was actually referring to His crucifixion meaning His hour has not come yet.. I'll show you what I mean in Scripture...

John 13:1 Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.

So Jesus was talking about HIS HOUR, wine symbolizes blood.. He was referring to Mary about shedding His blood on the Cross on His last HOUR.. Mary had absolutely no clue what He meant in John 2:4.

So... What offended them was they were thinking Jesus' was suggesting cannibalism because they didn't know what He meant, like they many many times... (they were not filled with the Holy Spirit yet).. Much like the example I gave you with Mary and Jesus. They just didn't understand Him..
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#5
Only those that Jesus choose believed Him. As He pointed out to them. Jesus told all the disicples that they didn't understand because it hadn't been given to them to understand. At this news they left, then Jesus asked the 12 if they would leave also, and God was true, giving to those that Jesus choose, to understand. "Did I not choose you, and 1 of you is a devil?"

God is faithful, to those who have, more will be given, but to those who DON'T have, even what they think they have, will be taken away.

You should be able to see the example of that here.
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#6
This text, though it offends or is denied this interputation by many, is not evil, infact it is hope for the lost, who looking at their lives full of wickedness sees that God doesn't show favor amoung men. And that is they do as commanded in repenting and seeking the kingdom of God, God is Mighty to save any man, because He doesn't do it based on a man's merit, but at His own good pleasure, and He rewards those who seek Him, for He declares, Seek first the kingdom of God, and all things will be added to you.
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#7
Perfect example of taking scripture and putting it into "context" to fit our doctrines and mock God's word. Much like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons.
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#8
because He doesn't do it based on a man's merit
That is what I mean.. *sighs*...You can't "seek" something unless you are willing to.
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#9
Perfect example of taking scripture and putting it into "context" to fit our doctrines and mock God's word. Much like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons.
Sorry Dino.. I didn't mean that.. I can really see where you are coming from I just need to work on being more loving .. I apologize.
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#10
Rom. 9:15-16 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." "So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."

I don't rely on what my since of right and wrong is, based on a human's sense of it, all would carry out their punishment. For what human judge have you ever seen that would let a man go free who, under the law deserved the death penalty?

There isn't just a passage or two that hint at election, it is all over the place.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#11
"All that the Father gives Me, will come to Me."
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#12
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.

(note He doesn't say I will draw all those whom I predestined to believe. He will draw all men and they choose to believe or reject Him)
 
Jul 6, 2009
318
2
0
#13
People who believe in predestination are usually those who like the idea of being part of a cosmic 'in' group. The exclusivity is what appeals to some people about these branches of Christianity. I personally find it reprehensible, but there are some scripture verses that seem to indicate predestination.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#14
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.

(note He doesn't say I will draw all those whom I predestined to believe. He will draw all men and they choose to believe or reject Him)

Yes Jesus will draw all men, who have been given to Him by the Father.

"No one can come to Me, unless the Father draws them"

When He is lifted up, at that stage He had not been yet lifted up, when would all the men be drawn to Him/? after He was lifted, what about the first diciples and Apostles? Jesus says "You did not choose Me, but I choose you."
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#15
That is exactly what I mean.. No consistency.. The Scripture doesn't say that but you have to ADD that to make it fit your doctrine.

Proverbs 30:6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
 
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C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#16
That is exactly what I mean.. No consistency.. The Scripture doesn't say that but you have to ADD that to make it fit your doctrine.

Proverbs 30:6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
But, but, I did not add to His word, it says that "No one can come to the Me unless the Father draw them." That what it says, you cannot come of your own will, "Of my own self I can do nothing."
 
C

CIRBaptist

Guest
#17
Greetings,


"keep on going back to where Jesus says "I am the bread of life", so it's figurative and he does give His body, He gave His fleah and blood at the cross, so to partake in the "bread of life" His body, eating and drinking by metonymy meaning consumption instead of what you believe sustains you i.e. bread, this 'bread' Jesus says is heavenly it sustains life eternally, you consume (eat and drink) or mentally digest this knowledge as truth - words from God. This idiom of eating and drinking God's words would have been known to those whom God had actually dealt with, for example Jeremiah 15:16; "Thy words were found and I did eat them; and Thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart, for I am called by Thy name, O, Lord God of Hosts." This idiom of eating and drinking truthfull words would have been well known to true Israelites, eating meant also enjoyment, it really meant this. The Lord always speaks of 'devouring' as well this is like eating that is what it represents and there is a certain enjoyment to it. The Lord's words could thus be understood by the hearers."



Look what His true diciples said, at first they were concerned because this harsh idiom would not be understood by the Jews, but the true diciples knew what it meant and they get it exactly right "You have the words of eternal life" and this is the meaning that was understood by those given to Him by the Father.

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Your right on the money......the Catholic and Orthodox Church combined this with Egyptians Sun ceremony and called it a Jesus cookie or Eucharist (Or the cermony of the Mass) of his passage. The spirtual meaning is emphasizing how close Jesus wants to be with us, as if we are spirtually feeding off him.

If fact to clue you in (I written this on a Catholic Message board from Google.com) it says Jeuss said, Living waters will pour out of your belly.. Beatiful and powerful metaphors indeeds!
 
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D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#18
Right..
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.

Can't add or take away from that. It says "ALL PEOPLES" not just a group of people it's speaking of every single person.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#19
Right..
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.

Can't add or take away from that. It says "ALL PEOPLES" not just a group of people it's speaking of every single person.
I did not add to the word, I gave you the previous reference of scripture 6 John which tells you who the 'all'' are, it's superlative you see. Now it actually says "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto Me,"

OK, do you see the brackets and the italics, that means it has been added, it's not in the original scripture, so it is actually "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Me."

What all? All that has been given unto Jesus by the Father, and everything that has been given to Him He will in no way cast out, and you cannot come unto the Son unless the Father draw you.
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#20
And you still don't see yourself adding to the Word. . It says "ALL PEOPLES".. God does draw all men to Himself but some reject the truth. Which is biblical people do reject God's truth.
 
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