I never said Acts 11:4,14,15 negates Acts 10 but Acts 11 puts the events of Acts 10 "IN ORDER".
Here are the events that he puts in order - 5 I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object descending like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came to me. 6 When I observed it intently and considered, I saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 7 And I heard a voice saying to me, 'Rise, Peter; kill and eat.' 8 But I said, 'Not so, Lord! For nothing common or unclean has at any time entered my mouth.' 9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, 'What God has cleansed you must not call common.' 10 Now this was done three times, and all were drawn up again into heaven. 11 At that very moment, three men stood before the house where I was, having been sent to me from Caesarea. 12 Then the Spirit told me to go with them, doubting nothing. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered the man's house. 13 And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, 'Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, 14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.' 15 And as I
began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be
baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 17 If therefore
God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"
Acts 11 is describing the same event that took place in Acts 10. They received the gift of the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Not by hearing nothing at all. Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever
believes in Him will receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter was
still speaking these words, the
Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the
gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also (Compare with Acts 2:38 -
gift of the Holy Spirit). 46 For they heard them
speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 Can anyone
forbid water, that these should
not be baptized who
have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? CRYSTAL CLEAR.
Without Acts 11 you cannot tell me with any certainty that the word "while" in v44 means at the beginning, in the middle of speaking or at the end of speaking the HG fell upon them.
Acts 10:44 - While Peter was
still speaking these words, (whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins - vs. 43) the
Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. With absolute certainty, this does not mean at the beginning. At the beginning means they heard nothing at all in contrast to
heard the word. They obviously heard enough to
believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (compare with Acts 10:43) because that's when they
received the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:17).
Of course, your bias wants the HG falling upon the Gentiles "while" Peter finished speaking. So the implication of the ORDER of events means the Gentiles had not yet heard those saving "words" (gospel) Acts 11:14 when the HG fell upon them.
No, it's your bias that wants the Holy Spirit falling upon the Gentiles before they heard anything at all to explain away that they heard the word, believed, received the Holy Spirit and were saved before water baptism. They obviously did hear those saving words (gospel) because they
heard the word (vs. 44) they
received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44-47) when they
believed on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 11:17). Compare with Acts 16:31 -
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Compare with Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you
heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having
believed, you were
sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. *Perfect Harmony.*
Furthermore, God sent Cornelius an angel to send for Peter, God gave Peter a vision telling him Gentiles were clean and God baptized the Gentiles with the HG. The purpose of God doing these things was to prove to the Jews that salvation was not meant just for them and the Jews understood that, Acts 11:18. Water baptism saves/remits sins Acts 2:38. In Acts 10:47 Peter says "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"
The Jews certainly understood that salvation was not meant just for them when they witnessed the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues after they heard the word, believed, and were saved, all before water baptism. Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*
Any man that forbid water baptism for the Gentiles would be going against God's will in salvation going to the Gentiles. If any man forbid water baptism, the Gentiles would be saved anyway? Hardly.
Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. The Gentiles were already saved before they were water baptized. They heard the word, they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues
before water baptism. Their salvation was signified, yet not procured in the waters of baptism.
You posted: (blue)
Jn 3:5----------------spirit+++++++++++*living water>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13----------spirit+++++++++++*Spirit baptized>>>>>>>in body
Tts 3"5---------Holy Ghost++++++*washing of reg/spiritual washing/living water>>>>>saved
Do I really need to comment on how you changed theses verses? Jesus said nothing about "living water" in Jn 3:5 nor did Paul say "spirit baptized" in 1 Cor 12:13. You simply added/made changes to these verses to get them to say what your bias wants them to say.
Jesus said nothing about baptism in John 3:5 and Paul said nothing about water in 1 Corinthians 12:13. It's you who changed these verses in order to make them fit your biased theology. What did Jesus say in John 4:10,14; 7:37-39? Notice the words drink(s), living water, never thirst, everlasting life, Spirit. Also notice the words drink into one Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:13. You simply dismiss what Jesus said in John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 but it aligns perfectly with John 3:5 and 1 Corinthians 12:13.
You are trying to make all three verses say: spirit ++++++++spirit>>>>>>>saved
Living water++++++++Spirit>>>>>>>>saved is not spirit++++++++spirit>>>>>>>>saved.
YOU are being needlessly repetitious in how YOU are using spirit. I think the technical word you're guilty of is tautology..
Strawman argument.
Not only are you rewriting the 3 verses above, you now rewrite Mk 16;16 to say "he that believeth is saved" leaving baptism completely out.
I didn't rewrite these verses. You added words to change the meaning of those verses. I simply harmonized John 3:5; 4:10,14; 7:37-39; 1 Corinthians 12:13 together to reach the proper conclusion. Water, Living Water, Drink, Spirit.
The conjunction "and" joins "believeth" to "baptized" making them inseparable. So whatever "believeth" is necessary for, so is baptism. So if baptism is not necessary, neither is belief.
False. If they were inseparable in receiving salvation, then baptism would have been mentioned in the last half of the verse and also in John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26. Did Jesus forget to mention baptism here? f we look at this verse closely, we see that it is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned. Clearly, the determining factor regarding whether one is saved or condemned is whether or not he
believes. In interpreting this passage correctly, it is important to realize that while it tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they shall be saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would have had to be included, that statement being: “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.
Again, the omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief.
Acts 2:38 has both repentance and baptism BEFORE remission of sins.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.
Acts 2:38-----------baptized/parenthetical>>>>>>>>>repentance>>>>>>for remission of sins
Acts 10:43---------believe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>for remission of sins
In Acts 2:38, repentance is the means of receiving forgiveness and baptism is signified in repentance and forgiveness.
Acts 3:19 -
Repent therefore and
be converted, that your
sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever
believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still
speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the
gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them
speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone
forbid water, that these should
not be baptized who
have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same
gift as He gave us when we
believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles
repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by
giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
Again, faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*
Since there is just one way to be saved, then believing MUST include baptism.
False. Believing is not baptism and believing precedes baptism and we are saved when we believe. It's just that simple.
Eph 2:8--------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21-----baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>not the removal of filth from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the part which saves you),
but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). Read it all.
When comparing Acts 2:41 with v44, the ones said to have "believed" in v44 are the ones bpatized in v41. So "believed in v444 includes beign baptized. The language of v41 means one has not received the gospel word until he has been baptized.
False. They were baptized after they believed and were saved. Believing does not include baptism. Those who believe in Christ for salvation do so before, during and after baptism. You don't baptize unbelievers in order to make them believers. One receives the gospel when they believe (Romans 1:16). This is signified, yet not procured in baptism.
The eunuch, he jailer, Lydia: NONE were baptized with the Holy Spirit for water baptism is the "like manner" way, Acts 15:11 that Jew and Gentiles are saved.
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they. Where do you see the word baptism in Acts 15:11? Read verses 7-9: 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should
hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith. The gospel is hid to those who
don't believe (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).