Doubt

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VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#81
Who said anything about man's reason? The same reason that was subject to the Fall is subject to the redemption of Christ's work on the Cross.
While this flesh is due to be redeemed, it is not redeemed yet. For what is hope that is already attained? And so my mind is needing to be renewed daily by the Spirit, from the inner man, because it is not yet redeemed. I have hope in the redemption of the flesh, for when I see Him, I will become just as He is.
 
Feb 3, 2010
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#82
So the flesh is not redeemed yet.......is the Spirit?
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#83
While this flesh is due to be redeemed, it is not redeemed yet. For what is hope that is already attained? And so my mind is needing to be renewed daily by the Spirit, from the inner man, because it is not yet redeemed. I have hope in the redemption of the flesh, for when I see Him, I will become just as He is.
This is why the Spirit is so important to us. Our reason has not been redeemed, not yet. We ascertain the things of God through and by the working of the Spirit. If any man has wisdom that is from above, then it is just that, from above.
 
Feb 3, 2010
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#84
I reject the doctrine of total depravity - that was invented in the 16th century by Calvin.

You have set up a dualistic relationship between the body and the spirit - it is not apart of Christian doctrine. You are describing one of the main tenets of Gnosticism.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#85
I reject the doctrine of total depravity - that was invented in the 16th century by Calvin.

You have set up a dualistic relationship between the body and the spirit - it is not apart of Christian doctrine. You are describing one of the main tenets of Gnosticism.
There is not one good thing that dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. That is the faith that I have in Christ, that He came to redeem such a creature as I am. That is not gnosticism. That is the truth of just how much I need Him.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#86
I reject the doctrine of total depravity - that was invented in the 16th century by Calvin.

You have set up a dualistic relationship between the body and the spirit - it is not apart of Christian doctrine. You are describing one of the main tenets of Gnosticism.
Just to clarify, the flesh (sarx) is only used to describe the body (soma) once in the NT. They are two different things.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#87
I do not subscribe to a religion, for as your sig shows, religion is of man. I subscribe to a God who loves me and who demands perfection, and so made a way for me to become perfect. When we stand before Him, will we be proud of our reason, of any part of our old lives? Or will we fall on our faces and praise Him for the redemption that He has given us in His resurrection? He had to die, body and mind, to be raised again to newness of life, body and mind, so that we also could be raised in His newness of life, in His resurrection. I don't know about depravity, but dead, yes, our flesh is dead.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#88
Just to clarify, the flesh (sarx) is only used to describe the body (soma) once in the NT. They are two different things.
And how are they different?

As I understand, our body is made up of flesh, and the brain in my head, where my mind dwells, is also flesh, and as such, is corrupt and corruptible. And it must be put off that I might put on the incorruptible heavenly body, which in Jesus is created in perfection.

Please, if I am mistaken, correct me. I ask in perfect seriousness.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#89
And how are they different?

As I understand, our body is made up of flesh, and the brain in my head, where my mind dwells, is also flesh, and as such, is corrupt and corruptible. And it must be put off that I might put on the incorruptible heavenly body, which in Jesus is created in perfection.

Please, if I am mistaken, correct me. I ask in perfect seriousness.
In the NT, the flesh is the old nature, the sinful nature. The body is spiritually neutral, sort of a battlefield between the flesh and the spirit. Just as the earth was corrupted by sin and a new earth is required, our bodies are corrupted by the flesh and new bodies are required.
 
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VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#90
In the NT, the flesh is the old nature, the sinful nature. The body is spiritually neutral, sort of a battlefield between the flesh and the spirit. Just as the earth was corrupted by sin and a new earth is required, our bodies are corrupted by the flesh and new bodies are required.
I will seek the Spirit on this. I did not understand it this way. I understood that even our souls are needing to be redeemed, and that no part of the old man is neutral. Not gnosticism, in which the body is depraved and not a part of my being, but rather I am a person who is made up of my flesh, my soul, and my spirit, all of which were dead, and now only the spirit is alive in God by Christ Jesus and the work of the Spirit. My body is in need of redemption, and as I experience the glory of God, I am changed in my soul into His image, by His power.

Thank you for you explanation.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#91
Strictly speaking doubt is in between belief and disbelief, but in the context of christianity, doubt is disbelief.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#92
So the flesh is not redeemed yet.......is the Spirit?
Actually the spirit is the only part of us that is redeemed,and this does not acurately describe what has been done. Intruth we are born of God in our spirit,it is His seed in us. The inner man awaits the redemption of the body, so that the spirit will have a fit vessel to house it.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#93
I will seek the Spirit on this. I did not understand it this way. I understood that even our souls are needing to be redeemed, and that no part of the old man is neutral. Not gnosticism, in which the body is depraved and not a part of my being, but rather I am a person who is made up of my flesh, my soul, and my spirit, all of which were dead, and now only the spirit is alive in God by Christ Jesus and the work of the Spirit. My body is in need of redemption, and as I experience the glory of God, I am changed in my soul into His image, by His power.

Thank you for you explanation.
If you can get a Youngs concordance it will help you find all of the instances of the word "sarx" (if you know any Greek you can use an Englishman's Greek Concordance). By looking up every reference to that, you will get an idea regarding the usage of flesh. Then do the same with "soma". I think you will find that it will enrich what you know more than changing it.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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#94
If you can get a Youngs concordance it will help you find all of the instances of the word "sarx" (if you know any Greek you can use an Englishman's Greek Concordance). By looking up every reference to that, you will get an idea regarding the usage of flesh. Then do the same with "soma". I think you will find that it will enrich what you know more than changing it.
I have a strongs, just have not used it in years. I read the NASB, but it is getting hard to find any more. I really like the accuracy of this translation. I will look into these things soon, with much prayer.

Thanks again.
vic