Dwight Pentecost claims Gentiles will be Israel's servants during Millennium

[Bladerunner]

its teaching like this makes me feel like a second class citizen like an alien in the faith......... but look at those verses they do teach that.......
maybe its right that the millennial is in heaven who has thought of that???? some theologian think about this:

Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

so look it says he will be a priest upon his throne. where is Jesus' throne and where is He a priest u see?

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

in heaven is the throne. so Jesus will be a priest on His throne, and His throne is in heaven, now it gets interesting because it also says if Jesus was on earth he can no longer be a priest:

Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

but Jesus is a priest forever:

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

dont get mad at me and take what i say as teaching im just pointing out something and asking the more laerned folks in the Lord to comment on how they feel about this u see. and see if someone else has noticed this.

you need to read the Bible a little bit more without the Hyper stuff!!!!!!!!!!!.

The Millennium will be on earth; it will be in the land of Israel; The remnant of Israelis will be the government (type) that Jesus will rule the Nations of the earth through; Every person(gentiles) will have their own land; every person (gentiles) will have 100 years to convert to Christianity or Belief in Christ;Those who do convert will live till the end of the millennium where they will be judged along with the Great White throne and all those that are to be resurrected.

As far as being converted when a person enters the Millennium is not stated. I will postulate that there will be some of the survivors that will have been converted to Christianity. However, knowing how mankind is self-centered beyond comprehension, I believe there will be many who are not converted and will remain unconverted for the 100 years they are alotted. That is if they live that long.

The way God has stated that Jesus will rule with an Iron hand leads me to believe that the evil within MAN will raise it 's ugly face from time to time even without any influence of Satan or his cronies. The Bible tells us, that near the end of the Millennium, Satan is loosed again for a time in which he finds (apparently) millions of men/women who do not agree with the system and will stand with Gog and magog again. I say millions mainly because it would take that many to surround Jerusalem and the Temple especially if the Temple is some miles outside of the City of Jerusalem.

Again I urge you to rethink your writings above, The Millennium will be physically on this earth complete with a temple and Jesus Christ sitting on His Mercy seat.

 

[MarcR]

Let's have a look at Zechariah:

Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

So where do we find the fulfillment of this prophecy? And what is this "living waters"?

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

In the above we have identified what the living waters are - there is only on source of the living water.

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the above we see when the living waters were given and which would flow out of the apostles bellies during their ministry.

On to the next:

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

There is no need to interpret the above in a wooden literal sense:

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels.

In Hebrews above we have the people of the nations going up "year to year" to worship the King in the heavenly Jerusalem not a pile of rocks on dirt in the middle.










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Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

So where do we find the fulfillment of this prophecy? And what is this "living waters"?

This is parallel to Rev 22:11.

Living waters refer to which flows as opposed to standing water i.e. a cistern, a well, or a lake with no outlet.

Isaiah often mixed prophesy of the first and second comings in the same verse. what Zechariah has done here is to include post millennial revelation in a chapter which mostly focuses on Jesus' millennial reign. This is understandable because the time frame of end time happenings were not understood until Jesus explained ; and even He left many unanswered questions.

 

[Locutus]

Here is a excerpt from a google book (Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism: Surprising Differences, Conflicting by Jonas Alexis) on the dispensational position of Gentile "inequality and the two part program) in the proposed literal millennium (note, the page previous to this was not available in the preview):

Link:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=vU...WAhWphFQKHR7uDesQ6AEIPjAI#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes, it is anti semitic and has been reported

Show me where that was anti-Semitic and I will apologize.

The Jews, at the time Jesus came, thought being born a Jew of natural lineage was all that was needed to be in a covenant with God. However, Jesus stated otherwise.

Then Paul wrote(or dictated) that the true Jews were those who were circumcised in their heart by God's Spirit. Now, both Jew and Gentile alike, have access to the Father via faith.

But today's devout Jew denies the Christ is his/her Messiah. They are looking for Him yet. That's why they will be deceived when the anti-Christ comes upon the scene.

I am not anti-Israel at all. I love the Jews. I love all ppl.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I know, some of your best friends are Jewish.

There are very few Jews around here where I live. I work as a lab tech and there's an old Jewish man who is admitted from time-to-time and I actually think a lot of him. He's suffering with the onset of Alzheimer's right now. I would like to speak to him about Jesus, but with the laws the way they are at work, I can't really say that much. But I do think the world of him.

 

[mcubed]

There are very few Jews around here where I live. I work as a lab tech and there's an old Jewish man who is admitted from time-to-time and I actually think a lot of him. He's suffering with the onset of Alzheimer's right now. I would like to speak to him about Jesus, but with the laws the way they are at work, I can't really say that much. But I do think the world of him.

Talk to him make him jealous for Messiah that is your birthright.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Talk to him make him jealous for Messiah that is your birthright.

Could you rephrase this, please?

 

[Locutus]

Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

So where do we find the fulfillment of this prophecy? And what is this "living waters"?

This is parallel to Rev 22:11.

Living waters refer to which flows as opposed to standing water i.e. a cistern, a well, or a lake with no outlet.

Isaiah often mixed prophesy of the first and second comings in the same verse. what Zechariah has done here is to include post millennial revelation in a chapter which mostly focuses on Jesus' millennial reign. This is understandable because the time frame of end time happenings were not understood until Jesus explained ; and even He left many unanswered questions.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Unless you mis-typed here I don't see where you are going with the above.


Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

In the above John is telling his readers that they may "take the water of life freely" this is not some time later into John's future in a proposed dispensation post millennial period - this is the problem with "one dimensional" literal interpretation.

If you aren't drinking the water of life NOW then you have not received the holy spirit.

John was told not to seal the sayings of the book, hence this applied to his day, whereas Daniel was told to "seal" the book because they were not for his day.

The problem with dispensationalism is ignoring or trying to explain away the "the time is at hand" and "must shortly come to pass" statements that brackets the revelation front and back.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

The time was at hand (and prior) when John wrote and still is for anyone to "take the water of life freely".

 

[posthuman]

i apologize, but .. his last name is "Pentecost" ??

seriously?

wow, weird.

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

... and, on topic -- there's not going to be a "Jewish Quarter" in heaven. only Christ, and we in Him and He in we, without division, envy or strife. One Lord, one people, the sheep of His pasture.

 

[mcubed]

i apologize, but .. his last name is "Pentecost" ??

seriously?

wow, weird.

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

... and, on topic -- there's not going to be a "Jewish Quarter" in heaven. only Christ, and we in Him and He in we, without division, envy or strife. One Lord, one people, the sheep of His pasture.

lol... I really do love you in Messiah... lol... The bestest ever...

 

[Locutus]

i apologize, but .. his last name is "Pentecost" ??

seriously?

wow, weird.

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

... and, on topic -- there's not going to be a "Jewish Quarter" in heaven. only Christ, and we in Him and He in we, without division, envy or strife. One Lord, one people, the sheep of His pasture.

Yes, Pentecost - I think his mom was named Passover... (not to say she got left on the shelf)

Ol' Dwight is speaking about the supposed literal 1000 yr period - not the heavenly realm Bones.

 

[iamsoandso]

The scriptures in his quote did they already take place or are they taking place or do you think they already took place(fulfilled) if they already took place when?

The scriptures you quoted from him,,,at some point when the thread develops wont they need to be explained as to when and how they were fulfilled?


Take those exact scriptures and explain them(as we all know Dispies search and ponder the things that are not yet fulfilled as an sort of damage and so his choice of scripture is sweet)...


But nothing barred those exact scriptures from the O.P.,,,when and how are they fulfilled? Are they valid points or not and why? Bare in mind that the law will not pass away until all that is written of the lord in Moses, the Psalms nor the prophets all is fulfilled.

 

[Locutus]

Yes they will soandso.

But guess what, folks jumped in quoting this, that and the other rather than starting with Isa. 14:1-2 then 49:22-23 then 60:14; then 61:5 then Zech. 8:22-23 in their dash to prove ol' Dwight right...

Such is life.

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[iamsoandso]

Yes they will soandso.

But guess what, folks jumped in quoting this, that and the other rather than starting with Isa. 14:1-2 then 49:22-23 then 60:14; then 61:5 then Zech. 8:22-23 in their dash to prove ol' Dwight right...

Such is life.

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Then address his set of scriptures you gave in the o.p. and refute them...

 

[Locutus]

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isa 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

I don't have much time tonight and Wednesday's are a travel day for me to and from work in a remote location.

Firstly this is prophetic language (spiritually discerned) and not to be taken in a wooden literal sense.

The land is the spiritual Jerusalem inhabited by Christians while on earth (Mount Sion - Hebrews 12:12)

Israel was being gathered in the 1st century AD making them a nation of priests unto God (James 1:1, 1 Peter 1:1, 2:9) the strangers that joined them were/are the Gentiles - the Pauline ministry.

The oppressors of the people of God were the rulers and opposers of the Gospel in the 1st century AD that were cast out (Gal 4:30, James 2:6)

That's just off the top of my head without doing some more in depth thinking.

 

[Locutus]

Just did a quick consult with Adam Clarke in his preamble:

Deliverance of Israel from captivity, which shall follow the downfall of the great Babylonish empire, Isaiah 14:1, Isaiah 14:2. Triumphant ode or song of the children of Jacob, for the signal manifestation of Divine vengeance against their oppressors, vv. 3-23. Prophecy against the Assyrians, Isaiah 14:24, Isaiah 14:25. Certainty of the prophecy, and immutability of the Divine counsels, Isaiah 14:26, Isaiah 14:27. Palestine severely threatened, Isaiah 14:28-31. God shall establish Zion in these troublous times, Isaiah 14:32.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/isaiah-14.html

 

[iamsoandso]

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isa 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

I don't have much time tonight and Wednesday's are a travel day for me to and from work in a remote location.

Firstly this is prophetic language (spiritually discerned) and not to be taken in a wooden literal sense.

The land is the spiritual Jerusalem inhabited by Christians while on earth (Mount Sion - Hebrews 12:12)

Israel was being gathered in the 1st century AD making them a nation of priests unto God (James 1:1, 1 Peter 1:1, 2:9) the strangers that joined them were/are the Gentiles - the Pauline ministry.

The oppressors of the people of God were the rulers and opposer of the Gospel in the 1st century AD that were cast out (Gal 4:30, James 2:6)

That's just off the top of my head without doing some more in depth thinking.

hmm, I don't see the world(gentile nations) growing crops and coming to Jerusalem from ad66-70 and worshiping the lord as king nor them seeing the government of Israel as any thing what so ever as described in the scriptures he(Pentecost) gave. Instead I see Rome(gentiles) going to war and destroying Jerusalem which is completely opposite of the scriptures he gave,,,how bout you?...

 

[Locutus]

Well, Pentecost is describing the future "Millennium" when using Isaiah 14:1-2 not the events of the 1st century - and looking at Clarke's commentary it seems he thinks that Isa 14 is well past before the 1st century - as I said I don't have much time tonight - it's getting late and I'm up early tomorra.

It's one particular set of verses I haven't paid that much attention to. Whether they apply to the 1st century I dunno - I'd need further thinking about this.

Anyways - I'm done for the night - maybe back on late Wed's eve.

 

[JaumeJ]

Many are called but few are chosen. Meditate upon who the chosen are; perhaps this will aid in resolving this. It really is no mystery and quite clear to eyes that see and ears that hear......let it be so for all with eyes and with ears, amen.

 

[iamsoandso]

Well, Pentecost is describing the future "Millennium" when using Isaiah 14:1-2 not the events of the 1st century - and looking at Clarke's commentary it seems he thinks that Isa 14 is well past before the 1st century - as I said I don't have much time tonight - it's getting late and I'm up early tomorra.

It's one particular set of verses I haven't paid that much attention to. Whether they apply to the 1st century I dunno - I'd need further thinking about this.

Anyways - I'm done for the night - maybe back on late Wed's eve.

hmm OK it's already Wednesday where I am but I'm a patient little booger too...