-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Which earth is it that abides forever?
Planet earth? If planet earth abides forever, then not everything was fulfilled by 70 ad.
The earth abiding forever can only be fulfilled after 70 AD.
----
We agree on many things.
But the Bible points to a time after 70 AD also.
Souls who become part of the kingdom today are still fulfilling prophecy. The kingdom is still being added to daily.
It is still the day of salvation for the soul.
---
Brother PlainWord,
was it all fulfilled by 70 AD or not?
If it was all fulfilled, then there is no promise for us today.
No kingdom (already delivered up to the Father for the wedding, and Jesus and the Father are All in All)?
No more resurrections (but even you said that there is another resur of the unsaved)?
No covenant relationship with Jesus and the Father in the kingdom? No hope of salvation?
All fulfilled by 70 AD, and nothing left for us?
If even a trace of a promise/prophecy exists that reaches beyond 70 AD, then not everything was fulfilled by 70 AD.
The end result is twisting the passages to fit the preconceived time line.
Planet earth? If planet earth abides forever, then not everything was fulfilled by 70 ad.
The earth abiding forever can only be fulfilled after 70 AD.
----
We agree on many things.
But the Bible points to a time after 70 AD also.
Souls who become part of the kingdom today are still fulfilling prophecy. The kingdom is still being added to daily.
It is still the day of salvation for the soul.
---
Brother PlainWord,
was it all fulfilled by 70 AD or not?
If it was all fulfilled, then there is no promise for us today.
No kingdom (already delivered up to the Father for the wedding, and Jesus and the Father are All in All)?
No more resurrections (but even you said that there is another resur of the unsaved)?
No covenant relationship with Jesus and the Father in the kingdom? No hope of salvation?
All fulfilled by 70 AD, and nothing left for us?
If even a trace of a promise/prophecy exists that reaches beyond 70 AD, then not everything was fulfilled by 70 AD.
The end result is twisting the passages to fit the preconceived time line.
I agree, but after some discussion on CC, I do believe in a resurrection of the physical/material body that is "changed" into the spiritual at that time. (The exact details of the change and resurrection are not given)
Matt 25:31-46, 34, This shows souls inheriting the kingdom, but is claimed to be the dest of Jeru by the preterists.
If you say that in this passage, the righteous people are the ones who escaped the dest of Jerusalem, then you are saying that flesh and blood DID inherit the kingdom.
The kingdom that is inherited, is the kingdom that Jesus has prepared for us from the beginning v34.
This is the heavenly, eternal kingdom, that we become part of when we are in the presence of God after physical death.
Yes, and they resurrected to heaven with Jesus at the 1st resur. 33 AD, not the dest of Jeru. 70 AD.
Yes..............
The beast is Rome.
The iron legs/toes of the statue in Dan. 2, and the 4th beast of Dan. 7.
The Roman iron dragon beast with 7 heads/hills/mts and 10 horn kingdoms are all Rome.
Rome has persecuted Israel for 2000 yrs.
It's not about the planet, it's about the earth of Israel.
The wrath described is on Israel for rejecting the kingdom, not planet earth.
So much misinformation. TV evangelists have much to answer for.
The year 1335 has been and gone a century ago.
1335 in the Muslim calendar corresponds to 1917AD in our calendar.
1917 >
the end of the seven times punishment of the Jews of ancient Judah for
their wilful disobedience and unfaithfulness > a period of 2,520 years.
From the time of Nebuchadnezzar and the destruction of the first temple
until December 1917:
31st October 1917 the Balfour Declaration (a Jewish homeland)
(and also coincidentally the exact 400th anniversary of Martin Luther nailing
the 95 theses to the doors of the Schlosskirche (Castle Church) in Wittenberg
on All Saints Day 1517)
31st October 1917 > the Australian Light House Infantry charge the Turkish and
German defences at Beersheba and capture the vital wells of Abraham.
The way to Jerusalem is open to General Allenby.
December 9th 1917 > the mayor of Jerusalem and other notable government
office holders come out and surrender Jerusalem to two British soldiers.
Jerusalem is taken without a shot being fired and any bombardment ...
The British flew their bi-wing planes over Jerusalem and dropped leaflets
over Jerusalem calling on the Turks to surrender.
The end of 400 years (1517-1917) of Turkish Ottoman rule.
Jews begin emigrating to British Palestine.
Isaiah 31:5
As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it;
and passing over he will preserve it.
Daniel 12:12
Blessed is he that waits, and comes to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
The year 1335 has been and gone a century ago.
1335 in the Muslim calendar corresponds to 1917AD in our calendar.
1917 >
the end of the seven times punishment of the Jews of ancient Judah for
their wilful disobedience and unfaithfulness > a period of 2,520 years.
From the time of Nebuchadnezzar and the destruction of the first temple
until December 1917:
31st October 1917 the Balfour Declaration (a Jewish homeland)
(and also coincidentally the exact 400th anniversary of Martin Luther nailing
the 95 theses to the doors of the Schlosskirche (Castle Church) in Wittenberg
on All Saints Day 1517)
31st October 1917 > the Australian Light House Infantry charge the Turkish and
German defences at Beersheba and capture the vital wells of Abraham.
The way to Jerusalem is open to General Allenby.
December 9th 1917 > the mayor of Jerusalem and other notable government
office holders come out and surrender Jerusalem to two British soldiers.
Jerusalem is taken without a shot being fired and any bombardment ...
The British flew their bi-wing planes over Jerusalem and dropped leaflets
over Jerusalem calling on the Turks to surrender.
The end of 400 years (1517-1917) of Turkish Ottoman rule.
Jews begin emigrating to British Palestine.
Isaiah 31:5
As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it;
and passing over he will preserve it.
Daniel 12:12
Blessed is he that waits, and comes to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Friends,
If you don't believe that prophecy can be understood, then you won't understand it, because you are preconceived not to.
---
I can give you one solid fact to build on, the iron legs and toes of the statue in Daniel 2 is Rome.
Think about this one thing, focus your thoughts on it.
The iron is Rome.
Think about Rome and the persecution of Israel, all these 2000 years.
Think about Caesar killing all those who would not worship him as god.
Think about the Bishop of Rome (BoR) Vatican, killing all those who would not call him holy father and authority of the kingdom.
The iron is Rome.
Who has been the iron for the last 2000 years?
Who was the iron 500 yrs ago?
Who is the iron right now?
=============================
You see, pre-trib, is designed to hide this FACT, that the iron is presently Rome.
--
They say, oh no, the Antichrist has not been revealed yet, so Caesar/BoR can't be the Antichrist.
At the time that the NT was written, it was obvious who the Antichrist was. He was, and is, the leader of the gentile nations that persecute Israel.
What about the Vatican and the BoR/Caesar?
If you were living 500 years ago, you would have seen the carnage of Rome for yourself
The thing that they have in common is Caesar worship. Man is god, worship the creation.
---
They say that the trib of Israel has not happened yet.
It is ignored, the last 2000 yrs of Roman persecution and genocide of Israel.
----
They say the things of the Rev are literal.
Because all the symbols point to Rome, the dragon, the beasts, all have the 7 heads and 10 horns. The beast is a city Rev 17:18.
=============================
Friends, I know that this Rome thing is troubling. And I really don't want to bother anybody, except that time is running out.
You see, if you follow this Rome thing, to it's conclusion, the answers are not sweet, but bitter.
Sweet that Jesus is coming for us, but bitter/poison.
I'm sorry, but it is not my prophecy, it is what Jesus told John, that the 2 witnesses will be killed, bitter and heart breaking, painful to the point of death.
---
Again, this one fact, the iron is Rome.
It's not hard to understand, anyone who studies will find this to be true.
Start the reasoning process from that point.
If you don't believe that prophecy can be understood, then you won't understand it, because you are preconceived not to.
---
I can give you one solid fact to build on, the iron legs and toes of the statue in Daniel 2 is Rome.
Think about this one thing, focus your thoughts on it.
The iron is Rome.
Think about Rome and the persecution of Israel, all these 2000 years.
Think about Caesar killing all those who would not worship him as god.
Think about the Bishop of Rome (BoR) Vatican, killing all those who would not call him holy father and authority of the kingdom.
The iron is Rome.
Who has been the iron for the last 2000 years?
Who was the iron 500 yrs ago?
Who is the iron right now?
=============================
You see, pre-trib, is designed to hide this FACT, that the iron is presently Rome.
--
They say, oh no, the Antichrist has not been revealed yet, so Caesar/BoR can't be the Antichrist.
At the time that the NT was written, it was obvious who the Antichrist was. He was, and is, the leader of the gentile nations that persecute Israel.
What about the Vatican and the BoR/Caesar?
If you were living 500 years ago, you would have seen the carnage of Rome for yourself
The thing that they have in common is Caesar worship. Man is god, worship the creation.
---
They say that the trib of Israel has not happened yet.
It is ignored, the last 2000 yrs of Roman persecution and genocide of Israel.
----
They say the things of the Rev are literal.
Because all the symbols point to Rome, the dragon, the beasts, all have the 7 heads and 10 horns. The beast is a city Rev 17:18.
=============================
Friends, I know that this Rome thing is troubling. And I really don't want to bother anybody, except that time is running out.
You see, if you follow this Rome thing, to it's conclusion, the answers are not sweet, but bitter.
Sweet that Jesus is coming for us, but bitter/poison.
I'm sorry, but it is not my prophecy, it is what Jesus told John, that the 2 witnesses will be killed, bitter and heart breaking, painful to the point of death.
---
Again, this one fact, the iron is Rome.
It's not hard to understand, anyone who studies will find this to be true.
Start the reasoning process from that point.
Hello Joidevive,
Why can't we do all of it? Why can't we practice loving all people as ourselves and become knowledgeable of his word regarding end-time events? Why should we be focused on just one aspect of God's word?
Paul referred to the Lord's appearing to gather the church as "the blessed hope" and as an event that believers should be longing for (Titus 2:13, 2 Tim.4:8). In addition, after his detailed account of the gathering of the church in 1 Thes.4:13-18, he then finishes with "therefore comfort one another with these words." Therefore, this event is something that every believer should be longing for or as Peter put it, "as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming."
Regarding every generation, without the true signs they had no right to claim end-time events. Every generation has done the same thing with the identity of the antichrist without considering the characteristics that would positively identify this man.
God went through the effort to give us all of this information regarding end-time events stating "the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him to show his servants the things that must soon take place." He even gives a blessing for those who read the words of the prophesies in the book of Revelation and for those who hear it and take to heart the things written therein, as well as a curse for those who add to or take away from the words in that book.
Now, we are the true generation that is witnessing the stage being set for the revealing of the antichrist and therefore the end of the age. We even have the technology for the mark of the beast which is already being used. No other generation in history could claim the ability to control buying and selling via the electronic crediting and debiting system via card swiping and cell phone bank apps. And now we have people in Europe and in the US where people are being implanted under the skin of the hand with RFID chips with one of its purposes being to make purchases. So we have two of the criteria met regarding the scripture with this device going in the hand and one of its purposes being to make purchases (buying). This device may evolve into somethings smaller and more applicable, but the technology for the mark is here. And at some point that implant in or on the skin of the hand or forehead is going to replace card swiping and cell phone bank apps as a means of electronically crediting debiting ones bank account.
As believers we should be excited because the mark will become mandatory for buying and selling during the time of God's wrath, which believers are not appointed to suffer and therefore must be removed prior to that time of wrath.
We should be studying end time events and looking forward to the Lord's promise to return and take us back to those dwelling places that he went to prepare for us which are in the Father's house, while continuing to put into practice loving all people as ourselves.
We can do it all!
God's blessings to you!
Why can't we do all of it? Why can't we practice loving all people as ourselves and become knowledgeable of his word regarding end-time events? Why should we be focused on just one aspect of God's word?
Paul referred to the Lord's appearing to gather the church as "the blessed hope" and as an event that believers should be longing for (Titus 2:13, 2 Tim.4:8). In addition, after his detailed account of the gathering of the church in 1 Thes.4:13-18, he then finishes with "therefore comfort one another with these words." Therefore, this event is something that every believer should be longing for or as Peter put it, "as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming."
Regarding every generation, without the true signs they had no right to claim end-time events. Every generation has done the same thing with the identity of the antichrist without considering the characteristics that would positively identify this man.
God went through the effort to give us all of this information regarding end-time events stating "the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him to show his servants the things that must soon take place." He even gives a blessing for those who read the words of the prophesies in the book of Revelation and for those who hear it and take to heart the things written therein, as well as a curse for those who add to or take away from the words in that book.
Now, we are the true generation that is witnessing the stage being set for the revealing of the antichrist and therefore the end of the age. We even have the technology for the mark of the beast which is already being used. No other generation in history could claim the ability to control buying and selling via the electronic crediting and debiting system via card swiping and cell phone bank apps. And now we have people in Europe and in the US where people are being implanted under the skin of the hand with RFID chips with one of its purposes being to make purchases. So we have two of the criteria met regarding the scripture with this device going in the hand and one of its purposes being to make purchases (buying). This device may evolve into somethings smaller and more applicable, but the technology for the mark is here. And at some point that implant in or on the skin of the hand or forehead is going to replace card swiping and cell phone bank apps as a means of electronically crediting debiting ones bank account.
As believers we should be excited because the mark will become mandatory for buying and selling during the time of God's wrath, which believers are not appointed to suffer and therefore must be removed prior to that time of wrath.
We should be studying end time events and looking forward to the Lord's promise to return and take us back to those dwelling places that he went to prepare for us which are in the Father's house, while continuing to put into practice loving all people as ourselves.
We can do it all!
God's blessings to you!
Well, the Antichrist is also called the Man of Sin, and the Son of Perdition. This man of sin literally sits in the future temple of God-- as God -- in Jerusalem, claiming that he is God (while blaspheming the true God and Christ).
In order to gain access to the temple, he must be a renegade Jew, who deceives all the unbelieving Jews into thinking that he is the true Messiah. This also ties in with the fact that there must be an Abomination of Desolation (an idol) set up in "the holy place", which means that there must be a temple in existence which has a designated holy place, which is then desecrated.
So in view of all this the present Bishop of Rome cannot be the Antichrist. There are plans in Israel to rebuild a temple in Jerusalem, and reinstitute the Levitical priesthood and the animal sacrifices. All of this ties in with the prophecies regarding the Antichrist.
In order to gain access to the temple, he must be a renegade Jew, who deceives all the unbelieving Jews into thinking that he is the true Messiah. This also ties in with the fact that there must be an Abomination of Desolation (an idol) set up in "the holy place", which means that there must be a temple in existence which has a designated holy place, which is then desecrated.
So in view of all this the present Bishop of Rome cannot be the Antichrist. There are plans in Israel to rebuild a temple in Jerusalem, and reinstitute the Levitical priesthood and the animal sacrifices. All of this ties in with the prophecies regarding the Antichrist.
"while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ"
"Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
If you're hoping and longing, your focused on, mediating on and anticipating the Lord's return and not having an attitude of "whenever it happens, it happens."
We can do everything in Christ, love all people as ourselves and look for and long for his appearing and everything in between. God provided a lot of information in his word regarding end-time events which leads up to the Lord's appearing to gather the church, his wrath which follows and his return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. Since we are that generation that is seeing all of the proofs that we are that last generation, should we not be comforting one another with the hope of the Lord's appearing and our being gathered to him, instead of having an attitude of "whenever. The end will take care of itself." Are we not also being the fragrance of Christ by proclaiming the nearness of his promise regarding his appearing to gather his church?
"Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
If you're hoping and longing, your focused on, mediating on and anticipating the Lord's return and not having an attitude of "whenever it happens, it happens."
We can do everything in Christ, love all people as ourselves and look for and long for his appearing and everything in between. God provided a lot of information in his word regarding end-time events which leads up to the Lord's appearing to gather the church, his wrath which follows and his return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. Since we are that generation that is seeing all of the proofs that we are that last generation, should we not be comforting one another with the hope of the Lord's appearing and our being gathered to him, instead of having an attitude of "whenever. The end will take care of itself." Are we not also being the fragrance of Christ by proclaiming the nearness of his promise regarding his appearing to gather his church?
Caesar and his image, to which Israel said, "We have no king but Caesar", "crucify him." Jn 19:15
Roman, The iron legs are Rome, you are forgetting that. The beast is a city Rev 17:18. Caesar is the head of the Roman beast.
This all happened in 70 AD. Lk 21:20-24, Shows that this is positively the dest of 70 ad Jerusalem. The people are scattered, taken as slaves, or killed by the sword. They don't wage wars with swords anymore, this is past. Prophecy fulfilled about the 70 AD dest in Ezek 5:1-17.
Oh yes, you have fallen for the great lie. The hiding of the Antichrist by pre-trib and others.
You are saying that Caesar/BoR cannot be the Antichrist because the temple must be rebuilt and the old Law will be practiced again. then we will have to go through again, everything that happened by 70 ad.
That would be, The rejection of the gospel kingdom by Israel. The persecution by the Roman/iron legs/toes dragon beast. The destruction of the temple again.
Can't you see, that the Roman iron legs toes dragon beast, has been here all this time? 2000 years, persecuting Israel?
The iron doesn't stop and then start again, it is all one solid piece to the toes, divided, but solid. Daniel 2.
That means that the Roman Empire is still with us today, not the Empire itself, the "image" of the Roman Empire, Caesar and all.
Caesar was revealed at the dest of Jeru as the head of the iron beast nation that rules Israel for the times of the gentiles.
And Israel had to wear the mark of Caesar for the last 2000 yrs.
It is not that Caesar (70 AD) who is destroyed by the brightness of His coming, it is the Roman beast dragon image nation that comes out of the abyss, that is, the sea beast dies (Roman Empire), but the image (RCC, BoR, Vatican), the 8th head, continues to perdition, and this is the Antichrist that is destroyed by the brightness of His coming (2nd, rapt/ress, 7th trumpet)