eph 2: 1-10 Our motivation for loving God

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1
We have discussed in another thread the three things Paul wants us to know more and more every day, Now I would like to discuss what is the motivation one has to love God.

We hear people all the time say, Well if God forgives you now matter what, what motivation do you have to go on and do the hard work of growing in Christ, What will keep you from continuing to live in sin, In fact you might as well. For you are saved anyway, Your gospel is evil, because it promotes licentious behavior. and great sinfulness int eh church.

Well. is this true? What is it that motivates a child of God? Fear? Shame? Law? or is it something less subtle? Like say, LOVE?

I believe Paul gives us the answer in Eph 2 In the first three verses, he tells us where we were. In vs 4, he starts to give us the main point of what motivates us,

Again, Like my other thread, I would like to discuss this first. Then I will give my view, and we can hopefully learn from each other..
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#2
It is my personal belief that we can only love as we know the love of God for us. It is a by-product of walking in the love of God for us. We love because He first loved us. He has sent the Holy Spirit into our hearts where He poured the love of God into it.

1 John 4:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Galatians 5:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,


I notice that it is a "fruit" of the Spirit and not a work like in the works of the flesh. Fruit cannot be mandated - it has to be developed and bore by the life of the Vine - it is not something we "work" up ourselves. It's a by-product of the life of Christ being manifested in us.

Those are my thoughts about this topic so far...great OP.



 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3
It is my personal belief that we can only love as we know the love of God for us. It is a by-product of walking in the love of God for us. We love because He first loved us. He has sent the Holy Spirit into our hearts where He poured the love of God into it.

1 John 4:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Galatians 5:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,


I notice that it is a "fruit" of the Spirit and not a work like in the works of the flesh. Fruit cannot be mandated - it has to be developed and bore by the life of the Vine - it is not something we "work" up ourselves. It's a by-product of the life of Christ being manifested in us.

Those are my thoughts about this topic so far...great OP.



How does paul explain this in Eph 2?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#4
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2 v.1-10

**** those verses tell me that before one can be made alive, one must die to self and this world.....some people are in the process of dying and believe they have the full gospel, but they dont.Jesus didn't stay on the cross or in the tomb. He rose again and sent His Holy Spirit to guide us.

So our motivation for loving God is not fear of death but that we have already died and been born again to life in Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#5
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2 v.1-10

**** those verses tell me that before one can be made alive, one must die to self and this world.....some people are in the process of dying and believe they have the full gospel, but they dont.Jesus didn't stay on the cross or in the tomb. He rose again and sent His Holy Spirit to guide us.

So our motivation for loving God is not fear of death but that we have already died and been born again to life in Christ.
Die to self. What does this mean? I think there are two differing opinions. and which way we slant, is which gospel we will follow..

I think this would be a good place to start our discussion.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#6
"lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath,"

We are by nature selfish. You don't have to teach a child to desire and want to please themselves with toys, attention, etc.

One of the biggest lessons we teach our children is to share, consider other people's feelings and needs, and be willing to help others even if they get nothing from it tangibly.

We value these things because God values them ...however the world teaches "look out for number one", the law of karma...repay good with good and bad with bad, eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

The world teaches the Law, it's punishments and consequences.

Jesus teaches grace and forgiveness. Love that transcedes the righteous judgement that would condemn us, but instead pardons us and calls us child of God.

He tells us to bless those who curse us, turn the other cheek, walk the extra mile...love even if you only get hate in return...do good even to those who do evil.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#7
2 Corinthians 5:14

"For the love of Christ controls and compels us, because we have concluded this, that One died for all, therefore all died"
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8
"lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath,"

We are by nature selfish. You don't have to teach a child to desire and want to please themselves with toys, attention, etc.

One of the biggest lessons we teach our children is to share, consider other people's feelings and needs, and be willing to help others even if they get nothing from it tangibly.

We value these things because God values them ...however the world teaches "look out for number one", the law of karma...repay good with good and bad with bad, eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

The world teaches the Law, it's punishments and consequences.

Jesus teaches grace and forgiveness. Love that transcedes the righteous judgement that would condemn us, but instead pardons us and calls us child of God.

He tells us to bless those who curse us, turn the other cheek, walk the extra mile...love even if you only get hate in return...do good even to those who do evil.
Yes, we are children of wrath, and by nature, self serving.. Excellent points.

question,

Can a non born again child of God do the things God wants them to do, why or why not?

 
Nov 22, 2015
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#9
How does paul explain this in Eph 2?


I believe Paul does that by what he wrote concerning God's love and what He has done for us that are in Christ. It's getting the revelation of what Paul wrote in Chapter 2 that will bring about life and the love that is in us to manifest.

Ephesians 2:4-7 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10

I believe Paul does that by what he wrote concerning God's love and what He has done for us that are in Christ. It's getting the revelation of what Paul wrote in Chapter 2 that will bring about life and the love that is in us to manifest.

Ephesians 2:4-7 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
vs 7. Is this a key to understand? Why?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#11
[SUP] 7[/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

vs 7. Is this a key to understand? Why?

Personally I believe it is key because this is how our Father will be dealing with us throughout all the ages that are to come. Why not start in this age that we are living in. We really need the revelation of this from the Holy Spirit in our hearts and then we need to have our minds renewed to this truth so that we are not double-minded.

The surpassing richness of His grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. I don't think my mind is capable of understanding just "how rich God is in His grace in kindness".

How rich is our Father in this area? Whatever we come up with will pale in comparison with the reality of just how rich He actually is in this truth.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#12
Yes, we are children of wrath, and by nature, self serving.. Excellent points.

question,

Can a non born again child of God do the things God wants them to do, why or why not?

Yes they can outwardly do the things God's law requires, but they can never reach His perfect standard.

The rubber meets the road, when the person realises they aren't perfect and they really do need God's forgiveness.

Like the Israelites who did not want God to speak to them directly, a nonbornagain believer rejects the gift of the Holy Spirit indwelling in them. They want a mediator, they want the law to guide them externally without the inward change of the heart and mind. They still believe that by their own works they can be saved.

Until we come to that point in our lives when we stand before God, broken, contrite and recognize our inability to save our selves...until we admit our need for a Savior, we are just zombies..dead man walking.

Christ is the cure.

He saved us while we are broken and gives us new life. he places within us His Holy Spirit to guide and teach us. Breaking down the lies the world tells us.

External action does not always show internal change...,for example someone could feed the poor, clothe the naked but in their hearts be prideful and look down on those people...they could do it for power, prestige, their honor instead of for God and His glory.

God teaches us that a humble heart is a teachable one and that it breaks down the stronghold of pride and arrogance. Generousity overcomes greed, love trumps lust, forgiveness breaks down anger. If we know how to pray, then we will never be alone.

We just have to learn how to use our spiritual weapons.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
Yes they can outwardly do the things God's law requires, but they can never reach His perfect standard.

The rubber meets the road, when the person realises they aren't perfect and they really do need God's forgiveness.

Like the Israelites who did not want God to speak to them directly, a nonbornagain believer rejects the gift of the Holy Spirit indwelling in them. They want a mediator, they want the law to guide them externally without the inward change of the heart and mind. They still believe that by their own works they can be saved.

Until we come to that point in our lives when we stand before God, broken, contrite and recognize our inability to save our selves...until we admit our need for a Savior, we are just zombies..dead man walking.

Christ is the cure.

He saved us while we are broken and gives us new life. he places within us His Holy Spirit to guide and teach us. Breaking down the lies the world tells us.

External action does not always show internal change...,for example someone could feed the poor, clothe the naked but in their hearts be prideful and look down on those people...they could do it for power, prestige, their honor instead of for God and His glory.

God teaches us that a humble heart is a teachable one and that it breaks down the stronghold of pride and arrogance. Generousity overcomes greed, love trumps lust, forgiveness breaks down anger. If we know how to pray, then we will never be alone.

We just have to learn how to use our spiritual weapons.
So in your view, Dieing to self is the point in our life where we are undone, have acknowledged our complete sinfulness and our deserved condemnation. Stop trying to save ourselves or denying we need saved, and give our all (life and eternity) to God. for him to do what has to be done to restore us to life?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
Personally I believe it is key because this is how our Father will be dealing with us throughout all the ages that are to come. Why not start in this age that we are living in. We really need the revelation of this from the Holy Spirit in our hearts and then we need to have our minds renewed to this truth so that we are not double-minded.

The surpassing richness of His grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. I don't think my mind is capable of understanding just "how rich God is in His grace in kindness".

How rich is our Father in this area? Whatever we come up with will pale in comparison with the reality of just how rich He actually is in this truth.
I see it different, I do not see this as how God will deal with us, I see it as How God will prove he is the god of love, not the God of take as satan wants us to see him to be, And becaue of this great love, no one for all eternity will ever question Gods love again.

ie, In eternity, we will be his trophy, God proved by his unfailing love to us, who have rebelled, against him, yet he saved us still.. by his own death.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#15
So in your view, Dieing to self is the point in our life where we are undone, have acknowledged our complete sinfulness and our deserved condemnation. Stop trying to save ourselves or denying we need saved, and give our all (life and eternity) to God. for him to do what has to be done to restore us to life?
Yes. People are afraid of dying, but we shouldn't be.

We want to cling to things, ideas, people, dreams, goals but we need to let go. Lay all our treasures down for that priceless jewel, our Salvation.

Satan deceived Adam and Eve in the garden because he said they could become more like God by knowing evil. They were blind to the good and the love God already gave them. Too many people look at evil, lusts after this world and fail to see the good...we are beloved children of God, ambassadors to this world that is not our home...let us shine our light so God may be glorified.

Let us not waste our time seeking treasures of this world..,things that will turn to dust, or mold or decay. Let us seek God and His will. Let us walk in His light and upon the path He leads us. Let us value His fruit of love, joy, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, and self control. Let our wisdom be from above and not demonic contentions and bitter strife.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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#16
he first loved us,(god) before you even opened your bible. yet ,you have opened your bible , yet fail to understand what jesus did for you/me. (the world) etc
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,702
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#17
Die to self. What does this mean? I think there are two differing opinions. and which way we slant, is which gospel we will follow..

I think this would be a good place to start our discussion.
To me, to die to self is an act of faith; having faith in Christ and the cross. I feel it's like THE thing to believe in above all else.

It means that the "you" who existed prior to Christ no longer exists after Christ (Matthew 16:25). He/she died. Really, really died (Galatians 2:20). And he/she was not resuscitated.

I feel it means the you who once identified with the family, culture and heritage exemplified by your surname *no longer exists* (Matthew 12:48). It means the you here, now, did not come from Adam like all the rest do (John 8:23). The you who's here, now, isn't from {insert earthly parents' names here}. The brothers and sisters of your flesh are not YOUR siblings. They were the siblings of the one who died on the Cross (with Christ) to satisfy the judgment of sin against him/her.

And the you who's here, now, was born to this earth just like Christ was born to it (John 3:6). You are His descendant. His kin. Yes even the way you were born into this world was the same as Christ, the moment you die to self. Yes in the *same exact* manner (i.e. through the Spirit of God).

To me "dying to self" isn't a decision or commitment of being selfless. It's another way to say you're "born again/anew/from above". It's a belief that the person who was born however many years ago lost his/her life on the cross with Christ because of his/her sins the moment you confessed Christ, by faith. And that is the awesome power of Faith in the beloved act of Christ. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). This means it's only really true if we are truly convinced it really happened.

He/she no longer exists, but you now exist instead.

Again to me, to die to self means *you* are truly not from here, but he/she who died was from here. Yet you came from where Christ came from, and not until THIS you was born did you come from where he came from (John 1:12-13).

As all mankind were in Adam's body as his descendants at the time of his corruption, so likewise anyone who believes is in Christ's body as his descendants at the time of his resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:22). You have his heritage. You have his character traits. He is your ONLY ancestor; your SOLE patriarch; your great great great great [...] grandfather. You are just like him. All he can do you can do, and even greater now (John 14:12; Philippians 4:13).


Yes, we are children of wrath, and by nature, self serving.. Excellent points.

question,

Can a non born again
child of God do the things God wants them to do, why or why not?

No, because they aren't from Christ's family. They aren't children of God. They don't have Christ's character traits (i.e. "Spirit") of love, humility and obedience. So if God said he wants us to "hop on one leg each Wednesdays for 30 mins", the non-born again person would protest saying "I can't do that" or "I won't do that", simply because God commanded it. But Christ and his descendants would say, "OK. Not my will but yours Father. I'll gladly do it."


Romans 8:7-9
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

8 Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ


1 Thessalonians 5:5
You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#18
Next question raised is what does it mean to be born again?
 
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PinkDiamond

Guest
#19
Prior to being awakened to our sinful state by the Holy Spirit, we live for ourselves and love ourselves. I believe that "love" is far more than just having benevolent feelings toward an individual. We love someone in truth when we seek their welfare and put their interests first. True love is disinterested benevolence. We don't truly love if we are looking for something in return. When we are in an unconverted state, we seek our own interests. In order for us to truly love God we can't be motivated by fear, rewards, or eternal life. True love for God is the desire to see him glorified and his kingdom advanced through us. We desire to be reconciled to him, not just from a fear of hell, but because we wish to be close to him and not injure him further with our sin.

When I read this passage, it is verses 4-5 that stand out. " But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins has quickened us together with Christ."

It is the love of God that warms our cold hearts. It is sad to reflect that most of us are so hardened in sin prior to conversion that we fail to love God. It isn't until he works in our lives to bring us to repentance that we begin to feel the gratitude and love that we should have felt all along. I think our "conversion" happens when our heart is warmed and we see for the first time the mercy and goodness of God. This revelation overcomes us. I recall that Wesley referred to his conversion experience simply as " having his heart strangely warmed."
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#20
The phrase "what is our motivation" sounds very analytical.

Does a spouse say "My motivation for loving my wife is..." or do they say, "I fell in love with
when ...."

When I see how God has brought love and life into my life, turned depression and defeat into
victory and wholeness, my heart leaps for joy. When I see my failure and hurt, and His brokeness
and pain, I am humbled and broken, I lost without words. When I see that which I count as little
but which he counts as worthy of dying for, I am astounded.

Jesus who knew no sin or failure, who was safe and secure with the Father chose to come and walk
with us, to understand and reach out, to invite to follow, the lost and empty, those who the world
called nothing to make them something. And when after talking He let the selfish, greedy, hate filled,
power hungry, murderers take Him and kill Him, and still He said, "Father forgive them for they know not
what they do." That is love, far in excess of anything I can conceive of or relate to.

How much do I care or am dedicated towards? So He blows my mind away, a man who I can be say,
I am unworthy to untie his sandles. And he calls me friend, he calls me precious, he calls me worthy,
holy, redeemed, forgiven and cleansed. Amen, what a Saviour.