eschaton made easy

[zone]

AnandaHya, Israel being righteous or not, has nothing to do with the promise God gave Israel, and that is Israel is His chosen people. Ez. 36:22-27

22)"Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: "I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My Holy names's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went.

So regardless of the pharisees and saducees whom Yeshua rebuke, God state clearly that in the last days He is going to restore His people, not because we deserve it, but because He promised it. If it weren't true than Israel would have never been reborn in 1948, for there would never had been a reason for Israel's restoration as a country. Shalom

how is it we dare to take prophecies that applied to nearly 600BC and drag them recklessly into the future?

how is that we CONTINUALLY pass over JESUS CHRIST as the fulfillment of ALL THESE THINGS?

avinu....i ask you: has God EVER permitted israel to dwell in palestine in sin and unbelief? EVER? under any circumstances whatsoever?

and while we are at this idea that we are going to revert to types and shadows for some mystery 1,000 year period, what is said here about The Second Advent?

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds
24 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weedsc among the wheat and went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27 And the servantsd of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

are we to believe this is 1,000 AFTER Jesus returns and sets up His Kingdom in earthly Jerusalem?

FIRST ADVENT.........................................................>>short space>>SECOND ADVENT/JUDGMENT/ETERNITY

 

[zone]

Question(s)...

Since when is "Jew" a race?.

yes.
i wonder about that also.

are the Ashkenazim semitic ancient hebrews, or converts?

does it matter?

And since when are Jews the only Semitic people.

most are not.

does it matter?

And since when are today's residents of Israel "Jews"?

since 1948

Oddly enough... supporting Israel makes one anti-Semitic by default, since those they oppose are themselves also Semitic. Pro-Israel or Anti-Israel is anti-Semitic.

odd isn't it?

but we're not supposed to talk about this.

 

[zone]

For I should not brethren that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel(according to some this is not the nation of Israel I guess) until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in
And so all Israel shall be saved. as it is written. There shall come out of sion the deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob
For this is my covenant unto them when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes, but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers sake
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance
For as ye in times passed have not believed God, yet they have now obtained mercy through their unbelief
Even so these also now not believed, that through your mercy they may also obtain mercy
Rom 11:25-31

i wonder how many times this has to be set right?

a million i guess.

interesting how ONE LITTLE WORD added or removed makes all the difference:

Romans 11
so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.

(Paul said that nearly 2000 years ago LBG).
he used himself as PROOF God had not cast away his people.

a remnant.
always a remnant.

and you ARE HURTING jews by NOT BELIEVING GOD.

 

[livingbygrace]

Sing O daughter of Zion, shout aloud O Israel
Be glad and rejoice with all your heart
O daughter of Jerusale,m
The Lord has taken away your punishment
He has turned back your enemy
The Lord the king of Israel is with you
Never again will you fear any harm
On that day they will say to Jerusalem
Do not fear O Zion
do not let your hands hang limp
The Lord your God is with you
He is mighty to save
He will take great delight in you
He will quiet you with his love
He will rejoice over you with singing

The sorrows for the appointed feasts I will remove from you
They are a burden and a reproach to you
At that time I will deal with all that opporessed you

I will rescue the lame
and gather those who have been scattered
I will give them praise and honour
In every land where they were put to shame
At that time I will gather you
At that time I will bring you home
I will give you honour and praise
among all the peoples of the earth
When I restore your fortunes
before your very eyes says the Lord
Zeph 3:14-20

 

[zone]

Sing O daughter of Zion, shout aloud O Israel
Be glad and rejoice with all your heart
O daughter of Jerusale,m
The Lord has taken away your punishment
He has turned back your enemy
The Lord the king of Israel isc with you
Never again will you fear any harm
On that day they will say to Jerusalem
Do not fear o Zion
do not let ypour hands hang limp
The Lord your God is with you
He is mighty to save
He will take great delight in you
He will quiet you with his love
He will rejoice over you with singing

The sorrows for the appointed feasts I will remove from you
They are a burden and a reproach to you
At that time I will deal with all that opporessed you

I will rescue the lame
and gather those who have been scattered
I will give them praise and honour
In every land where they swere put to shame
At that time I will gather you
At that time I will bring you home
I will give you honour and praise
among all the peoples of the earth
When I restore your fortunes
before your very eyes says the Lord
Zeph 3:14-20

THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL WILL DO NO INQUITY.

DANIEL 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

is this fulfilled LBG?

please answer the question: WHERE IS THE CHURCH CHRIST DIED FOR?

 

[livingbygrace]

I say then have they stumbled that they may fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles for to provoke them to jealousy
Now if the fall for them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:11&12

 

[AnandaHya]

AnandaHya, Israel being righteous or not, has nothing to do with the promise God gave Israel, and that is Israel is His chosen people. Ez. 36:22-27

22)"Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: "I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My Holy names's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went.

So regardless of the pharisees and saducees whom Yeshua rebuke, God state clearly that in the last days He is going to restore His people, not because we deserve it, but because He promised it. If it weren't true than Israel would have never been reborn in 1948, for there would never had been a reason for Israel's restoration as a country. Shalom

Let us address this point of scripture IN CONTEXT...

Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”
....

hmmm sounds familiar:

1 Peter 1:22-24 (New King James Version)


The Enduring Word


22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[a] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,[b] 24 because


“ All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man[c] as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,


SO WHOSE SEED DOES GOD LOVE?

Matthew 3:8-10 (New King James Version)

8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire

Summary: Unless you are born again and GOD places the HOLY SPIRIT inside your heart and replaces your heart of stone, be you Jew or Gentile you will be thrown into Hell. The blessing is only for those who have accepted JESUS Christ as their LORD and Savior and those who walk in HIS commandments which is to love one another fervently with a pure heart. This is done through the GRACE of GOD not through works of MAN.

 

[zone]

I say then have they stumbled that they may fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles for to provoke them to jealousy
Now if the fall for them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:11&12

mmmm........ok LBG.

just as simply as you can, explain how it works: how will every israelite who ever lived be saved?

is that when they get a second flesh body for 1,000 years?

please read the following passage (written to, of all people, the HEBREWS) and tell me how it works:

Hebrews 9
23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

what does verse 27 really say?

a) And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment
b) And just as it is appointed for gentiles to die once, and after that comes judgment
c) And just as it is appointed for hebrews to die twice, and after that comes judgment

~

also: WHEN DOES THIS HAPPEN?

so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds
24 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weedsc among the wheat and went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27 And the servantsd of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

 

[AnandaHya]

" If it weren't true than Israel would have never been reborn in 1948, for there would never had been a reason for Israel's restoration as a country."

as for that point.. mmm it shows you that GOD has already fulfilled the promise of Ezekiel, but does not mean that the prophecies mean that NATIONAL Israel will not be casted into the fire if their fruit is rotten. WORSHIP GOD NOT A NATION! How do you think God will cleanse the nation/house of Israel?

Ezekiel 36
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the LORD,” says the Lord GOD, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.

2 Corinthians 7:1-3 (New King James Version)

1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

2 Open your hearts to us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have cheated no one. 3 I do not say this to condemn; for I have said before that you are in our hearts, to die together and to live together.

 

[livingbygrace]

But Zion said
The Lord has foresaken me
the Lord has forgotten me

Can a mother forget the baby at her breast?
and have no compassion on the child she has borne?
Though she may forget
I will not forget you

See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hand
your walls are ever before me
your sons hasten back
and those who laid you waste depart from you
lift up your eyes and look around
all your sons gather and come to you
As surely as I live declares the Lord
you will wear them all as ornaments
you will put them on like a bride


Though you were ruined and made desolate
and your land laid waste
now you will be too small for your people
and those who devoured you will be far away
the children born during your bereavement
will yet say in your hearing
this place is too small for us
give us more space to live in
Then you will say in your heart
who bore me these?
I was bereaved and barren
I was exiled and rejected
who bought these up?
I was left all alone
but these-where have they come from

This is what the sovereign Lord says

See I will beckon to the Gentiles
I will lift up my banner to the peoples
they will bring your sons in their arms
and carry your daughters on their shoulders

Kings will be your foster fathers
and their queens your nursing mothers
they will bow down before you
with their faces to the ground
they will lick the dust at your feet
then you will know that I am the Lord
those who hope in me will not be disappointed

Can plunder be taken by warriors?
or captives rescued from the fierce?

But this is what the Lord says

Yes, captives will be taken from the warriors
and plunder retrieved from the fierce
I will contend with those who contend with you
and your children I will save

I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh
they will be drunk on their own blood as with wine
Then all mankind will know that I am your Saviour
your redeemer, the mighty one of Jacob


Isiaih 49:14-26

 

[zone]

" If it weren't true than Israel would have never been reborn in 1948, for there would never had been a reason for Israel's restoration as a country."

as for that point.. mmm it shows you that GOD has already fulfilled the promise of Ezekiel, but does not mean that the prophecies mean that NATIONAL Israel will not be casted into the fire if their fruit is rotten. WORSHIP GOD NOT A NATION! How do you think God will cleanse the nation/house of Israel?

Ezekiel 36
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the LORD,” says the Lord GOD, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.

2 Corinthians 7:1-3 (New King James Version)

1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

2 Open your hearts to us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have cheated no one. 3 I do not say this to condemn; for I have said before that you are in our hearts, to die together and to live together.

well ananda:
what a novel idea to look for the fulfillments of prophecies in JESUS and the NT, New Covenant.
i recall something about a Second Advent, Judgement, New Heaven/Earth/Jerusalem....i wonder...did God REALLY say?

 

[zone]

PLEASE ADDRESS LBG OR ANYONE.....

mmmm........ok LBG.

just as simply as you can, explain how it works: how will every israelite who ever lived be saved?

is that when they get a second flesh body for 1,000 years?

please read the following passage (written to, of all people, the HEBREWS) and tell me how it works:

Hebrews 9
23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

what does verse 27 really say?

a) And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment
b) And just as it is appointed for gentiles to die once, and after that comes judgment
c) And just as it is appointed for hebrews to die twice, and after that comes judgment

~

also: WHEN DOES THIS HAPPEN?

so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

[AnandaHya]

God has fulfilled His promises. He has restored the Jewish people to their homeland 1948?

who is of ZION? is it people with stone hearts and blood lineage or those who have the LAW of GOD written in their hearts and obey His will?

Isaiah 51
7 “ Listen to Me, you who know righteousness,
You people in whose heart is My law:
Do not fear the reproach of men,
Nor be afraid of their insults.
8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment,
And the worm will eat them like wool;
But My righteousness will be forever,
And My salvation from generation to generation.”

Numbers 16
31 Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods. 33 So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they perished from among the assembly. 34 Then all Israel who were around them fled at their cry, for they said, “Lest the earth swallow us up also!”
35 And a fire came out from the LORD and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering incense.

God judges even those who descend from Abraham, do you recall the rebellion of Korah?...

 

[livingbygrace]

For you will spread out to the right and to the left
your descendants will dispossess nations
and settle in their desolate cities

Do not be afraid
you will not suffer shame
Do not fear disgrace, you will not be humiliated
You will forget the shame of your youth
and remember no more the reproach of your widowhood
For your maker is your husband
the Lord Almighty is his name
the Holy one of Israel is your redeemer
He is called the God of all the earth

The Lord will call you back
aa if you were a wife, deserted and distressed in spirit
a wife who married young
only to be rejected says your God

For a brief moment I abandoned you
but with deep compassion I will bring you back
In a surge of anger
I hid my face from you but for a moment
but with everlasting kindness
I will have compassion on you
says the Lord your redeemer

To me this is like the days of Noah
when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth
so now I have sworn not to be angry with you
never to rebuke you again
Though the mountains be shaken
and the hills be moved
yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken
nor my covenant of peace be removed
says the Lord who has compassion on you

Isiaih 54:3-10

All your sons will be taught by the Lord
and great will be your childrens peace
In righteoiusness you will be established

Tyranny will be far from you
you will have n othing to fear
terror will be far removed
it will not come near you
If anyone does attack you
it will not be my doing
whoever attacks you will surrender to you

See it is I who created the blacksmith
who fans the coals into flame
and forges a weapon fit for its work
and it is I who have created the destroyer to work havoc
no weapon forged against you will prevail
and you will refute every tongue that accuses you

verses 13-17

 

[VW]

God has fulfilled His promises. He has restored the Jewish people to their homeland 1948?

who is of ZION? is it people with stone hearts and blood lineage or those who have the LAW of GOD written in their hearts and obey His will?

Isaiah 51
7 “ Listen to Me, you who know righteousness,
You people in whose heart is My law:
Do not fear the reproach of men,
Nor be afraid of their insults.
8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment,
And the worm will eat them like wool;
But My righteousness will be forever,
And My salvation from generation to generation.”

Numbers 16
31 Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods. 33 So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they perished from among the assembly. 34 Then all Israel who were around them fled at their cry, for they said, “Lest the earth swallow us up also!”
35 And a fire came out from the LORD and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering incense.

God judges even those who descend from Abraham, do you recall the rebellion of Korah?...

The thing is, He chooses in whose heart He will write His laws.

God's choice is not in our domain, and we cannot understand His choice. We can only accept it, or be found in opposition to Him. (Not a position I would fancy.)

In Christ,

 

[VW]

Interesting passage there in Numbers. It shows what happens whenever those called take a stand against God's servant.

 

[AnandaHya]

Interesting passage there in Numbers. It shows what happens whenever those called take a stand against God's servant.

what do you think will happen to those who take a stand against Jesus Christ as Savior and Messiah?

even if they be of the blood of Abraham as Korah was?

 

[AnandaHya]

Romans 9:6-12 (New King James Version)


Israel’s Rejection and God’s Purpose


6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”[a] 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

 

[VW]

what do you think will happen to those who take a stand against Jesus Christ as Savior and Messiah?

even if they be of the blood of Abraham as Korah was?

They will answer in the last day.

However, the passage you quoted was about people who stood against His servant, Moses. Even when Moses' sister tried to stand against him, God struck her with leprosy.

Paul stood against Jesus, but was saved. Actually, we all stood against Him at some time in our lives, but He was merciful to us and drew near to us and saved us.

Praise God.

 

[AnandaHya]

VW I think you miss the point of the conversation: who is counted as the children of GOD? who does GOD cherish: the seed of Abraham(national Israel) or the children of the promise (both Jew and gentile) who believe upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ as savior and Messiah?

this is not about anti-semitic feelings, beliefs or statements because the Jews who confess Jesus as Lord and Savior are included as the children of promise.

However, would you say those who reject Jesus yet have the blood of Abraham still be allowed into Heaven?

Yes God choses whom to save and call but if they reject Jesus as Korah rejected Moses and Aaron's authority, would you still consider them "chosen people of God"? who are the children of God? Who does God make a convenant with National Israel or the Jews and Gentiles who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior?