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Dec 19, 2009
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mmmm........ok LBG.

just as simply as you can, explain how it works: how will every israelite who ever lived be saved?

.
Zone

If you can find a quote of mine on any thread where I have stated

'Every Israelite who ever lived will be saved' I will answer your question'

It seems that you for some reason continually find the need to say that I believe things, or have stated on cc that which I never have posted

Therefore discussion between us is not possible I am afraid, therefore I am left with no choice but to put you on ignore
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
Zone

If you can find a quote of mine on any thread where I have stated

'Every Israelite who ever lived will be saved' I will answer your question'
it is good to know you do not believe so but there are others on site that do believe this is true. they are called Christian Zionist, and I just want to know how they support their position with the Bible. Therefore if you are not amongst them, my comments are not directed towards you.

Anyways we should question and attack ideas we believe are false not people who express them. if you don't like my ideas it does not bother me when you state you don't agree (in whatever manner or words you chose to express yourself)

unless you start tell me Jesus doesn't love me and I'm not saved through His grace, then we might have issues.

so can you clarify what is your stance concerning National Israel and God's plan?
 
Dec 19, 2009
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it is good to know you do not believe so but there are others on site that do believe this is true. they are called Christian Zionist, and I just want to know how they support their position with the Bible. Therefore if you are not amongst them, my comments are not directed towards you.

Anyways we should question and attack ideas we believe are false not people who express them. if you don't like my ideas it does not bother me when you state you don't agree (in whatever manner or words you chose to express yourself)

unless you start tell me Jesus doesn't love me and I'm not saved through His grace, then we might have issues.

so can you clarify what is your stance concerning National Israel and God's plan?[/quote


Anandya

The post of mine you have responded to was addressed to Zone, not you
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
Anandya

The above post was addressed to Zone, not you
i know but still curious. since you posted and didn't pm her. you don't have to answer if you don't want to its ok. i'm used to it :)
 
Dec 19, 2009
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Hi Anandya

These are just a couple of thoughts of my own

I will contend with those who contend with you
Isiaih 49:25

I don't know of anyone who believes God has placed Israel back in their OT homeland who believes they are at this point living the Christian life, or how God would have them live(with exceptions)

But neverthelsss to many of us, OT prophecies clearly state thast the Jews will be brought back to their former homeland and God will do it.

In the infinate plan of God that we can at times only partly understand until we see its working out, I would say. Is it possible that God chose to return the Israelites to their homeland before they had fully come back to him and accepted Christ as their saviour? I would say it is definately possible.
And either God was in them returning or he was not, which raises another question
Could they have returned and become a nation if God did not will it?
If God did will it and it is part of his plan, anyone who contends with Israel or is against them is against God's plan for them.

I am a firm believer that a time is coming when all Jews in their homeland will be saved. With my human mind I cannot rationalise it, but to me scripture is clear on this.
And I wonder that if they finally do all turn to Christ as their saviour whether at that time the wars they are involved in will cease(apart of course from Armageddon)

Just an attempt to answer your question as best I can
Anandya

I am suprised you asked me what I believed, here is a previous post of mine to you that I believe amply answers that question

But if it was not clear.

I believe that Israel became a nation in 1948 when they returned to their homeland of OT times as a fulfillment of OT prophecies.

I also believe that if God in His wisdom and plan chose to do this before they have all turned to him through Christ who am I to question God

I believe as Paul plainly wrote that there will come a time when all Israel will be saved.

As Zone continually writes that I believe things I have never posted, I think I have the right to repudiate publically what is incorrectly stated that I believe. And it is important that we are all quoited accurately

If it is continiually stated by a particular person that I or anyone else believes things we do not, all should be made aware of this so they know what we do or do not believe
It is not the first time this has happened

I also have had many perple not answer questions I have put to them, and some of them then query why I do not answer their questions, or suggest I may not want to answer them
 
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AnandaHya

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would you say those who reject Jesus yet have the blood of Abraham still be allowed into Heaven?

Yes God choses whom to save and call but if they reject Jesus as Korah rejected Moses and Aaron's authority, would you still consider them "chosen people of God"?

who are the children of God?

Who does God make a convenant with National Israel or the Jews and Gentiles who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior?

actually these are the questions I'd like answered but. its ok i'll wait...
 
Dec 19, 2009
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would you say those who reject Jesus yet have the blood of Abraham still be allowed into Heaven?

Yes God choses whom to save and call but if they reject Jesus as Korah rejected Moses and Aaron's authority, would you still consider them "chosen people of God"?

who are the children of God?

Who does God make a convenant with National Israel or the Jews and Gentiles who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior?

actually these are the questions I'd like answered but. its ok i'll wait...
I will answer these. But while you are waiting perhaps you could look over all the OT scriptures I have posted on this thread and give me your opinions on them, especially the highlighted areas. Then we will be addressing each others points

Thank you
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
I will answer these. But while you are waiting perhaps you could look over all the OT scriptures I have posted on this thread and give me your opinions on them, especially the highlighted areas. Then we will be addressing each others points

Thank you
I have I believe God has fulfilled most of them and that Jesus fulfilled the old testament prophecies and did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it. He made it so that it no longer matter if you had the blood of Abraham running through your veins because Jesus came to save the WHOLE world, first the Jews but also the Gentiles. I think it unbiblical that people worship a nation and place it before worship of God and what God's WORD says. God makes promises to Israel but ONLY to the part that is true in heart and soul to HIS commandments. If they are of the seed of GOD they will accept Jesus if not JESUS tells us they are Satan's seed. what do you think will happen to Satan's seed? who do you think Jesus is speaking to in these verses?


John 8:37-45 (New King James Version)

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with[l] your father.”
39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
.
 
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Dec 19, 2009
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would you say those who reject Jesus yet have the blood of Abraham still be allowed into Heaven?

No
Yes God choses whom to save and call but if they reject Jesus as Korah rejected Moses and Aaron's authority, would you still consider them "chosen people of God"?

Not individually.
But you need to understand. The Israelites were God's chosen people in the OT but they did not all go to Heaven. You have given Korah as a good example

who are the children of God?

All those who accept Christ. As I have continually stated. A time is coming when all Israel will be saved

Who does God make a convenant with National Israel or the Jews and Gentiles who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior?

The latter. But I repeat. A time is coming when all Israel will be saved, and therefore accept Christ

actually these are the questions I'd like answered but. its ok i'll wait...
Answers above.

Let me reitterate. God brought the Israelites back to their homeland BEFORE they had mainly turned to him. I have never said the people who have not turned to Christ would be saved. I have repeatedly stated that a time is coming when they ALL WILL turn to Christ which is in accordance with scripture.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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I have I believe God has fulfilled most of them and that Jesus fulfilled the old testament prophecies and did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it. He made it so that it no longer matter if you had the blood of Abraham running through your veins because Jesus came to save the WHOLE world, first the Jews but also the Gentiles. I think it unbiblical that people worship a nation and place it before worship of God and what God's WORD says. God makes promises to Israel but ONLY to the part that is true in heart and soul to HIS commandments. If they are of the seed of GOD they will accept Jesus if not JESUS tells us they are Satan's seed. what do you think will happen to Satan's seed? who do you think Jesus is speaking to in these verses?


John 8:37-45 (New King James Version)

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with[l] your father.”
39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
.
Anandya

The above is addressing NONE of the specific scriptures I asked you to address
 
Dec 19, 2009
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In that day I will restore David's fallen tent
I will repair its broken places
restore its ruins
and build it as it used to be
So that they may possess the remnant of Edom
And all the nations that bear my name
declares the Lord who will do these things
The days are coming declares the Lord
When the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman
and the planter by the one treading grapes
New wine will drip from the mlountains
And flow from the hills
I will bring back my exiled people Israel
They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them
They will plant vinyards and drink their wine
They will make gardens and eat their fruit
I will plant Israel in their own land
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them
says the Lord your God
Amos 9:11-15

This is whjat the Lord says
See I will beckon to the Gentiles
I will lift up my banner to the peoples
they will bring your sons in their arms
and carry your daughters on their shoulders
Kings will be your foster fathers
and their queens your nursing mothers
They will bow down before you with their faces to the ground
they will lick the dust at your feet
then you will know that I am the Lord
Isiaih 49:21-23

This is what the Lord says
In those days ten men from all lasnguages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and saY
Let us go with you because we have heard God is with you

Zech 8:23

Though I scatter them among thje peoples
yet in distant lands they will remember me
they and their children will survive
and they will return
I will bring them back from Egypt
and gather them from Assyria
I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon
and there will not be room enough for them
Zech 10:9&10
Anandya

Could you address the above sciptures please

Especially the highlighted areas
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, THE SPIRIT OF GOD CAME UPON HIM and he uttered this oracle
Numb 24:2

verse9

May those who bless you be blessed, and those who curse you be cursed
you do realize there are like pages on pages in this thread and I have two kids and a full time job right? luckily they are busy right now. It is about JESUS, not Israel as a nation but JESUS. replace the "he" with Jesus and you will understand it is a prophecy about Him. so my response did answer and address your scriptures you just didn't understand how. It doesn't change anything. those who bless Jesus will be blessed and those who curse Him will be cursed. Jesus tells us this in the New testament as well for God does not change in the past, present or future. He has already told us all we need to know to live Godly lives.

if you want me to address another verse please repost. have to make dinner ;)


Numbers 24

4 The utterance of him who hears the words of God,
Who sees the vision of the Almighty,
Who falls down, with eyes wide open:

5 “How lovely are your tents, O Jacob!
Your dwellings, O Israel!

6 Like valleys that stretch out,
Like gardens by the riverside,
Like aloes planted by the LORD,
Like cedars beside the waters.

7 He shall pour water from his buckets,
And his seed shall be in many waters.

“His king shall be higher than Agag,
And his kingdom shall be exalted.

8 “God brings him out of Egypt;
He has strength like a wild ox;
He shall consume the nations, his enemies;
He shall break their bones
And pierce them with his arrows.

9 ‘He bows down, he lies down as a lion;
And as a lion, who shall rouse him?’[a]

“ Blessed is he who blesses you,
And cursed is he who curses you.”
 
Dec 19, 2009
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you do realize there are like pages on pages in this thread and I have two kids and a full time job right? luckily they are busy right now. It is about JESUS, not Israel as a nation but JESUS. replace the "he" with Jesus and you will understand it is a prophecy about Him. so my response did answer and address your scriptures you just didn't understand how. It doesn't change anything. those who bless Jesus will be blessed and those who curse Him will be cursed. Jesus tells us this in the New testament as well for God does not change in the past, present or future. He has already told us all we need to know to live Godly lives.

if you want me to address another verse please repost. have to make dinner ;)


Numbers 24

4 The utterance of him who hears the words of God,
Who sees the vision of the Almighty,
Who falls down, with eyes wide open:

5 “How lovely are your tents, O Jacob!
Your dwellings, O Israel!

6 Like valleys that stretch out,
Like gardens by the riverside,
Like aloes planted by the LORD,
Like cedars beside the waters.

7 He shall pour water from his buckets,
And his seed shall be in many waters.

“His king shall be higher than Agag,
And his kingdom shall be exalted.

8 “God brings him out of Egypt;
He has strength like a wild ox;
He shall consume the nations, his enemies;
He shall break their bones
And pierce them with his arrows.

9 ‘He bows down, he lies down as a lion;
And as a lion, who shall rouse him?’[a]

“ Blessed is he who blesses you,
And cursed is he who curses you.”
If you could just comment on post 211 I would appreciate that.

I have to say you are wrong with your above answer though.

I appreciate the fact you have two children and a job. It has suprised me you are able to spend as much time on cc as you do
 
Jul 6, 2010
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If you could just comment on post 211 I would appreciate that.

I have to say you are wrong with your above answer though.

I appreciate the fact you have two children and a job. It has suprised me you are able to spend as much time on cc as you do
Hello brother,

You endure well, i can only imagine your thoughts. Some people have all the time in the world to mock but when it comes to answer time, suddenly they are pushed for time.
And you will know them by their fruits.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
Amos 9 is echoed in Revelation 21 and 22 when John speaks about New Jerusalem

Isaiah 49 and Zech 10 was fulfilled when National Israel was established in 1949 or it could be in Revelations too?

Zech 8 is only for those who remember God. what message does Zech end his book?


Zechariah 14
The Nations Worship the King

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the LORD of hosts.[d] Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.


now who do you think will claim to be the LORD to those who do not accept Jesus as Lord and Messiah? what does the NEW Testament say of this person?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-6 (New King James Version)

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.


key verses: Let no one deceive you...

do you know what is restraining? do you know who will be revealed in his own time?
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
Hello brother,

You endure well, i can only imagine your thoughts. Some people have all the time in the world to mock but when it comes to answer time, suddenly they are pushed for time.
And you will know them by their fruits.
mmmm posting scriptures and talking to people is now considered mocking?

note to self: don't talk to Devolution, he does not handle people disagreeing with him well.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
If you could just comment on post 211 I would appreciate that.

I have to say you are wrong with your above answer though.

I appreciate the fact you have two children and a job. It has suprised me you are able to spend as much time on cc as you do
i'm a fast typer and i multitask :) it comes with being a mom. how is my above answer wrong, can you elaborate?
 
Dec 19, 2009
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Amos 9 is echoed in Revelation 21 and 22 when John speaks about New Jerusalem
Amos 9 speaks of the new Jerusalem? Where the Christian will spend eternity?

What does this have to do with God bringing the exiles back to their land and rebuilding the broken walls of their cities?

And Israel being planted in their own land never to be uprooted again?

This has already happened, so has the new Jerusalem appeared already?


Isaiah 49 and Zech 10 was fulfilled when National Israel was established in 1949 or it could be in Revelations too?

So you believe that the Israelites return to their OT homeland was a fulfilling of OT prophecy. Well we agree on that.

But how can the exiles returning in Isiaih 49 have to do with 1948, but when Amos 9 speaks of the exiles returning it is to do with the new Jerusalem where we as Christians will spend eternity?


Zech 8 is only for those who remember God. what message does Zech end his book?

The quote from Zech 8 was

In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say
'Let us go with you because we have heard that God is with you

So I do not understand your answer in relation to this


Zechariah 14
The Nations Worship the King

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the LORD of hosts.[d] Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

now who do you think will claim to be the LORD to those who do not accept Jesus as Lord and Messiah? what does the NEW Testament say of this person?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-6 (New King James Version)

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

key verses: Let no one deceive you...

do you know what is restraining? do you know who will be revealed in his own time?


I don't see what the above has to do with this discussion
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
I don't see what the above has to do with this discussion
the only city that will last for eternity is Christ's NEW Earth and NEW Jerusalem found in Revelation

ALL other nations and cities will be uprooted and destroyed. It says so in Revelations. therefore if God promises that it will LAST FOREVER it is in relation to CHRIST's kingdom not any MANMADE one.

I don't understand why you don't see it.

it is relevant because we are talking about END TIMES.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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I have I believe God has fulfilled most of them and that Jesus fulfilled the old testament prophecies and did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it. He made it so that it no longer matter if you had the blood of Abraham running through your veins because Jesus came to save the WHOLE world, first the Jews but also the Gentiles. I think it unbiblical that people worship a nation and place it before worship of God and what God's WORD says. God makes promises to Israel but ONLY to the part that is true in heart and soul to HIS commandments. If they are of the seed of GOD they will accept Jesus if not JESUS tells us they are Satan's seed. what do you think will happen to Satan's seed? who do you think Jesus is speaking to in these verses?


John 8:37-45 (New King James Version)

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with[l] your father.”
39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
.
There are so many old testament prophecies about the nation of Israel that have not been fulfilled, that I consider them to be countless. They number in the thousands!