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I will address what you have responded to soon, but we are unpacking and such right now.
S
I found this and thought that it was said beautifully
Now to address some of what radio said:
In the eyes of a person, to not breathe is to be dead, in the eyes of God, you are not truly alive until you stop breathing.
i'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, considering the bottom half of that entire paragraph goes against that belief
and as for what you said after that, there is no point in progressing with God if all you have to be is saved
uhh, i'm not sure why this agrees with OSAS, because you just said that believers will get a punishment worse than death if they disobey, and i agree completely. and why would you need more than one refference to Hell if it's only a few passages?
I agree, we have been made perfect in the same sence as Adam and Eve. They were perfect, but then they sinned, and they lost their perfection. If you don't believe they were perfect, then you are going against Scripture, because no imperfect person can see God's true form, and they saw Him on a daily basis.
Now, I hope you answer all of the above plus all of the original reply on page one by aug 13, because i'm moving into my high school that day and won't have much time after that to write this stuff.
Now to address some of what radio said:
In the eyes of a person, to not breathe is to be dead, in the eyes of God, you are not truly alive until you stop breathing.
i'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, considering the bottom half of that entire paragraph goes against that belief
and as for what you said after that, there is no point in progressing with God if all you have to be is saved
uhh, i'm not sure why this agrees with OSAS, because you just said that believers will get a punishment worse than death if they disobey, and i agree completely. and why would you need more than one refference to Hell if it's only a few passages?
I agree, we have been made perfect in the same sence as Adam and Eve. They were perfect, but then they sinned, and they lost their perfection. If you don't believe they were perfect, then you are going against Scripture, because no imperfect person can see God's true form, and they saw Him on a daily basis.
Now, I hope you answer all of the above plus all of the original reply on page one by aug 13, because i'm moving into my high school that day and won't have much time after that to write this stuff.
S
Found a verse that take the cake on this discussion. I honestly can't say it more clearly than the Bible:
1 Timothy 6:10- For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
So the question is "can someone stray from the faith?" why yes, yes they can.
1 Timothy 6:10- For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
So the question is "can someone stray from the faith?" why yes, yes they can.
If you are inclined to believe this way then please tell me what kind of believer is going to make it to heaven and stand before the Bema seat of Christ and possibly have the following things happen. They will have their works tried by fire and be burnt up as wood, hay and stubble, they may suffer the loss of all rewards but will be saved as by fire. Were they disciples and followers of the Lord Jesus Christ like you and I want them to be? If not, then how did they ever make it to heaven? FIRST ANSWER THE QUESTION PROPOSED AND THEN CONSIDER THE REST OF THE POST.
Could it be that the blood of Christ that paid for their sin cleansed them when they believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ and they were instantly saved by grace through faith because God had promised? Could it be that they love God and are thankful for his forgiveness and cleansing and decided to live a good moral life without taking up their daily cross? Perhaps they did not obey the message of discipleship and went to church and concluded that preaching the gospel was for others and not them. They would give their testimony but being a disciple was too much for them especially at their age. Perhaps they were sentimental and were more comfortable living in the flesh because that is what they were use to. I don't mean that they lived in outward sin or anything like that but just had no zeal for the things of God.
They would never deny that Christ saved them and testify that he was their Savior but settled back in the comfortability and creature comforts of their domestic surroundings. They may have no outward works of gold, silver or precious stones except for at least one which they will be rewarded for and that is the work of believing upon the Son for eternal life (Jn 6:29). That work they did and the reward they get is this, Jesus Christ will be their portion forever (Ps 16:5). What Christ did on the cross made only one demand from sinners, that you believe upon the Son and be justified by faith and through his blood. And that is enough for the Father to accept you and impute his righteousness to you. Some call this 'easy believism' but the scriptures call it being saved by grace through faith the Bible way.
I have ministered to hundred of believers (family included) just like this and they love God in their own way, they go to church, they tithe, they welcome you into their homes, they will pray with you and even invite others to church, but that is as far as they go in terms of laying their life down. If the message gets harder they will not budge and will stay right where they are at. I know a believer that it took (20) years to get them to respond and obey the call that God put on their life. No one judged them or laid on them a guilt trip but loved them. So what do you do? You keep building them up, loving them, hoping and praying for them, comfort them when they need to be comforted and be their friend. If you try to tell them that they are in danger of not making it to heaven, they will tell you respectfully in no uncertain terms where you can take that gospel. At least they are secure in the grace that saved them and know that through Christ they have forgiveness of sins and eternal life and no man can take that from them.
Sometimes the only thing that will lead them to take up their cross is the goodness of God with lots of love and patience on our part and not some demand made by a preacher that is desperate for disciples in his church. I hope that we will consider these things in the grace of God and always consider the individual heart because that is what God is looking at (1Sam 16:7, 2Cor 10:7). I am sure that you have heard of the expression concerning the laborers that are few, 'God is hard up and he will even use you!'
Could it be that the blood of Christ that paid for their sin cleansed them when they believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ and they were instantly saved by grace through faith because God had promised? Could it be that they love God and are thankful for his forgiveness and cleansing and decided to live a good moral life without taking up their daily cross? Perhaps they did not obey the message of discipleship and went to church and concluded that preaching the gospel was for others and not them. They would give their testimony but being a disciple was too much for them especially at their age. Perhaps they were sentimental and were more comfortable living in the flesh because that is what they were use to. I don't mean that they lived in outward sin or anything like that but just had no zeal for the things of God.
They would never deny that Christ saved them and testify that he was their Savior but settled back in the comfortability and creature comforts of their domestic surroundings. They may have no outward works of gold, silver or precious stones except for at least one which they will be rewarded for and that is the work of believing upon the Son for eternal life (Jn 6:29). That work they did and the reward they get is this, Jesus Christ will be their portion forever (Ps 16:5). What Christ did on the cross made only one demand from sinners, that you believe upon the Son and be justified by faith and through his blood. And that is enough for the Father to accept you and impute his righteousness to you. Some call this 'easy believism' but the scriptures call it being saved by grace through faith the Bible way.
I have ministered to hundred of believers (family included) just like this and they love God in their own way, they go to church, they tithe, they welcome you into their homes, they will pray with you and even invite others to church, but that is as far as they go in terms of laying their life down. If the message gets harder they will not budge and will stay right where they are at. I know a believer that it took (20) years to get them to respond and obey the call that God put on their life. No one judged them or laid on them a guilt trip but loved them. So what do you do? You keep building them up, loving them, hoping and praying for them, comfort them when they need to be comforted and be their friend. If you try to tell them that they are in danger of not making it to heaven, they will tell you respectfully in no uncertain terms where you can take that gospel. At least they are secure in the grace that saved them and know that through Christ they have forgiveness of sins and eternal life and no man can take that from them.
Sometimes the only thing that will lead them to take up their cross is the goodness of God with lots of love and patience on our part and not some demand made by a preacher that is desperate for disciples in his church. I hope that we will consider these things in the grace of God and always consider the individual heart because that is what God is looking at (1Sam 16:7, 2Cor 10:7). I am sure that you have heard of the expression concerning the laborers that are few, 'God is hard up and he will even use you!'
S
I would like to address the part where you said that the person might not have anything extra, but they'd still be saved. There is a parable where the master (God) gave his servants (people who were saved) money, and the guy who did nothing with the money except hide it (in other words, did the bare minimum/nothing) was thrown into darkness (Hell).
I would also like to re-ask about the parable where 2 people were forgiven of their sins (in other words saved) and the guy sinned right after that (didn't forgive another person), was brought before the king (God) and thrown into darkness (Hell) for that sin. So he was forgiven, and then lost that "salvation" and then he was thrown into Hell.
I would also like to re-ask about the parable where 2 people were forgiven of their sins (in other words saved) and the guy sinned right after that (didn't forgive another person), was brought before the king (God) and thrown into darkness (Hell) for that sin. So he was forgiven, and then lost that "salvation" and then he was thrown into Hell.
S
Honestly, how is this fruitful in anyway? All this does is tell me that either A: you do not have an argument or B: you do have an argument, but it's much more fun to be condesending.
Please tell me there's a C that doesn't have to do with indifference or being tired, because I'd prefer for this discussion to go on in a much more productive manner.
Thanks, Saint.
Please tell me there's a C that doesn't have to do with indifference or being tired, because I'd prefer for this discussion to go on in a much more productive manner.
Thanks, Saint.