Eternal security a fundamental truth of the Christian faith

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Jan 31, 2009
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#21
Jesus said: "He who endures till the end will be saved".
the only ones that can endure are the ones who have faith In Jesus and His works if we build on our works we build on sinking sand, God said that He would allow one of His to be taken from this life that the spirit might be saved, when you see them that turn from God will surely die , is a physical death1co 5:5

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 
B

Buddee

Guest
#22
Roaring kitten,


Also you mention that Jesus' righteousness is imputed to us. This too is a false doctrine. No text states such. Our faith in Christ is credited to us as righteousness.

You best go back and do a re-read.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#23
Why do people speak of making it to heaven by a thin thread, whats wrong with getting it right, right now today. Lets go to the promise land whats in our way, ourselves and the lie that we can't. We look at these obstacles and say we can't do it, there giants there to big. I say with Christ we can over come and we can walk in heaven everyday on this earth. And it starts with love one another as I have loved you.
Heck yeah

"But if you knew what life is worth
You would look for yours on Earth" -Bob Marley

I've got a question, if nobody minds going a tiny bit off topic-

What I fail to understand is how good works have anything to do with salvation in the first place. Maybe someone can explain to me where this comes from ? Admittedly, I dont come from a Christian background, I wasn't raised in the church, or any of that, so that may be why it seems confusing to me.

I mean, it seems like a perenniel topic of discussion, works vs grace, but I've never actually heard any church teach that good works ARE the way to get into heaven. Admittedly, I'm no expert, haven't been to Bible college, but I HAVE always enjoyed going to other people's churches, and never actually heard a sermon in any church or synagogue that good works get us into heaven. Can anybody give me examples of denominations that teach this?

But like, for example, as being a Messianic, that believes in following the Torah lifestyle which Jesus Himself led, I hear a fair amount of silly accusations, like we're trying to "earn" our way into heaven, rather than the reality, that we submit to the way of life G-d put forward out of gratitude, trust, and obedience.

No, good works aren't our ticket to heaven. And despite what Christians seem to think of Judaism, as far as I can see, that never was the way they looked at things.

And yet, James says "faith without works is dead" which to me, relates to Messiah's statements that "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit" and "A bad tree cannot produce good fruit."

Of course, these things are best a general indicator, and it's not our place to judge that simply because WE see no good fruit, that doesn't mean none is being producted.

Basically, I'm just trying to determine... well in the case of Christians speaking about Judaism, it's definitely a false dichotomy, that Jews never thought that doing good deeds, or keeping G-d's law WAS going to get them in heaven.

So I guess I'm just wondering, if there really are Christian denominations that actually teach this stuff, or if it's just a strawman argument, the same way that Jews are often falsely portrayed as trying to earn salvation.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#24
Jesus said: "He who endures till the end will be saved".
Amen, only those that keep their faith until the end will be presented to Christ unblameable.

Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
 
M

motojojo

Guest
#25
Thaddaeus I apologize if you think I was addressing you personally, it was a general statement. To what I see on here a lot. Works don't win you anything, its all about what Christ did for us. It's just I know a lot of Christians that speak nasty and all manner of sinful behavior and they do nothing for their own soul but make it dirty. If I can state my opinion, I view our soul like a building stone that needs to be worthy of the building of GOD's temple, square and clean and perfect in every way, not dirty and rounded corners, thats easy to be like that and we all know filthy dirty Christians. Sorry if anyone takes what I said personally.
 
S

sword

Guest
#26
Since we were created with a free will to choose between good and evil; to think that salvation cannot be lost is like saying we have no real freedom in Christ but since Jesus really sets us free we christians still have the freedom to choose between good and evil. So only those of us who endure till the end will be saved.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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#27
Since we were created with a free will to choose between good and evil; to think that salvation cannot be lost is like saying we have no real freedom in Christ but since Jesus really sets us free we christians still have the freedom to choose between good and evil. So only those of us who endure till the end will be saved.

*sigh*......................................................
 
Jul 21, 2009
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#28
please go take this poll, and while you are there, take notice that the larger percentage of the ones who took that poll say they believe that eternal security is the teaching of God.

Then consider that since God is the one who holds us secure, and you are basically saying He wont.. then you are calling God a liar.

http://www.christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=6375


*****
T
 
S

shad

Guest
#29
Since we were created with a free will to choose between good and evil; to think that salvation cannot be lost is like saying we have no real freedom in Christ but since Jesus really sets us free we christians still have the freedom to choose between good and evil. So only those of us who endure till the end will be saved.
Please explain how a believer is to endure to the end. What does endure mean and what kind of things is the believer to endure? If the believer has to endure till the end to be saved, what kind of salvation has God provided the believer for that to happen? Did God provide a salvation that can be repented of? Did God provide an eternal salvation by grace and through faith or did He provide a temporal salvation that can be rejected and forsaken? Is the salvation that God has provided through His Son conditioned upon our ability to keep it or is it kept (in us) by the power of the One who provided it? Can the Holy Spirit indwell the believer by faith and then leave the believer who stops walking by faith? If that is true then explain how the believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption? If that is true then the promise of God to never leave or forsake the believer is not true making the character of God, who promised, less than the truth.
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#30
Amen, only those that keep their faith until the end will be presented to Christ unblameable.

Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Mt 24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I am not sure if this is the verse because no reference was giving but this is the closest that I could find. however if this is the verse.this verse that you amened to and that is used alot on this subject has nothing to do with works this a different time, matthew 24 is during the times of jacob's troubles and/or the birth pangs of Israel otherwise known as the great tribulation. but this verse is clerly taken out of content,

Mt 24:8All these are the beginning of sorrows.Mt 24:9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.Mt 24:10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.Mt 24:11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.Mt 24:12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.Mt 24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.Mt 24:14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.



 
Jan 31, 2009
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#31
Mt 24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I am not sure if this is the verse because no reference was giving but this is the closest that I could find. however if this is the verse.this verse that you amened to and that is used alot on this subject has nothing to do with works this a different time, matthew 24 is during the times of jacob's troubles and/or the birth pangs of Israel otherwise known as the great tribulation. but this verse is clerly taken out of content,

Mt 24:8All these are the beginning of sorrows.Mt 24:9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.Mt 24:10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.Mt 24:11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.Mt 24:12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.Mt 24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.Mt 24:14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
sorry hit the submit button by mistake now look at matthew in contents it is speaking of a time in the future, so let's go to the time it is speaking of

Re 7:2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,Re 7:3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.Re 7:4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.



two points here the ones sealed was not speaking of their salvation but rather their life "hurt not" so let's go back to matthew the ones saved were the servants of God that endured But it is not their salvation but rather their life that was saved.
also point 2 is that in the Great tribultion only the servants of God were of the twelve tribes of Israel no gentiles or the Church mentioned at this point . now we do have


Re 7:9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

But today we have jews in every nation, we have jews that have married other races (all kindreds) and we do have jews speaking other languages. so this could still be all jews
and we don't hear of the Chruch/bride until rev 19: so Matthew 24 has nothing to do with salvation ??
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#32
Mt 24:12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.Mt 24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
also i need to add here What are we to endure all the above but look it says that the love of many wax( grows ) cold, I can Love God and still let Him down I can still love God and commit sin, this is how we always hurt to ones we love the most. but If My love endures if my faith endures through all this other stuff then God will save/seal us for His work to be done. for He can trust us, just as in old testament there was a battle to take place and God told the one in charge to cut the number of men down to 300 for these were the ones that God could trust there is a great spiritual battle about to take place here in rev. , and God needs the faithful ones to figth the battle so these are the ones that he seals/saves.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#33
please go take this poll, and while you are there, take notice that the larger percentage of the ones who took that poll say they believe that eternal security is the teaching of God.

Then consider that since God is the one who holds us secure, and you are basically saying He wont.. then you are calling God a liar.

http://www.christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=6375


*****
T
I feel compelled to point out that universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.

As to who those are who endure to the end, let's take a look at what the book of the end times says about it

Rev 12 speaks of a dragon making war against a woman. As always, I suggest reading the full chapter to get the full context, but in verse 17, we find the following-

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

And we find this same message repeated in Rev 14:12, THIS time specifically SAYING that it is the endurance of the saints-

This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#34
Since we were created with a free will to choose between good and evil; to think that salvation cannot be lost is like saying we have no real freedom in Christ but since Jesus really sets us free we christians still have the freedom to choose between good and evil. So only those of us who endure till the end will be saved.
That is what the Bible says.
 
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
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#35
Thaddaeus I apologize if you think I was addressing you personally, it was a general statement. To what I see on here a lot. Works don't win you anything, its all about what Christ did for us. It's just I know a lot of Christians that speak nasty and all manner of sinful behavior and they do nothing for their own soul but make it dirty. If I can state my opinion, I view our soul like a building stone that needs to be worthy of the building of GOD's temple, square and clean and perfect in every way, not dirty and rounded corners, thats easy to be like that and we all know filthy dirty Christians. Sorry if anyone takes what I said personally.
I didn't think you were addressing me , i believe in faith only nothing I can do except exercise my faith which God gave me I can use it or lose it
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#36
please go take this poll, and while you are there, take notice that the larger percentage of the ones who took that poll say they believe that eternal security is the teaching of God.

Then consider that since God is the one who holds us secure, and you are basically saying He wont.. then you are calling God a liar.

http://www.christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=6375


*****
T
Actually only 12 of the 26 who participated in this poll voted for eternal security, that meand 14 do not believe that it is true, the majority were not in favor of the false doctrrine of eternal security. Does that change your view? NO? Then why would you think if the majority did vote for it it would change our view?
 
S

sword

Guest
#37
Enduring till the end doesn´t mean being infallible but persevering in the faith, even though we may sin sometimes. So if we stop persevering in the faith and start living like the world does and die that way then hell will wait for us:
Hebrews 10
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[d] and again, "The Lord will judge his people."[e] 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 

Gabriel777

Senior Member
Sep 15, 2009
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#38
Grace is not a ticket to sin. To remain saved you must obey His commands. If you choose to sin continuously and take your salvation for granted then for certain you will lose it.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#39
Grace is not a ticket to sin. To remain saved you must obey His commands. If you choose to sin continuously and take your salvation for granted then for certain you will lose it.
Good word, keep declaring the truth brother.
 
S

shad

Guest
#40
Grace is not a ticket to sin. To remain saved you must obey His commands. If you choose to sin continuously and take your salvation for granted then for certain you will lose it.
In your profile it says you were saved some time ago. If you remain saved by obeying the commandments then it is reasonable to assume that it was obedience to a commandment that saved you. When that happened which commandment did you obey that saved you and how was your obedience carried out?
 
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