Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

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kevan1234

Junior Member
Sep 17, 2015
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#1
Eternal Security
You CANNOT lose your salvation!
by David J. Stewart | January 2004 | Updated October 2014
Eternal Security is the Biblical doctrine that a believer CANNOT lose salvation in Christ Jesus. I recently spoke with a Church of Christ minister who believed that a Christian could LOSE their salvation by failing to maintain a “relationship” with God. Of course, that is a lie of the Devil. The Charismatics are also plagued with this false belief that a person can lose their salvation. Calvinists call this false doctrine, the “
Perseverance of the Saints,” that is, they say that you must persevere in good works and continued faith to remain in a state of salvation. The Salvation Army teaches this heresy.
In sharp contrast to the heresies you've just learned about, the Bible teaches: “If Saved, Always Saved.” Salvation is not doing your best, it is having Christ's best put to your account through receiving Him by faith. Christ died for our sins on the cross, He was buried and raised up bodily from the dead three days later. This is the Gospel (1st Corinthians 15:1-4). John 6:28-29, “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” Believe and the work is done, you are saved securely and eternally.

Salvation is By Faith Alone in the Gospel
SInce mankind has nothing to do with saving himself, then why would God require men to do something to maintain it? Salvation is of God, not men. Paul said to “work out your own salvation” in Philippians 2:12; the Bible doesn't say to work out GOD'S SALVATION. God saves a person, pulling them out of the fires of Hell, but now that person needs to be recycled. It is up to us whether we yield to the Holy Spirit or not in our daily life, to search and obey the Scriptures. However, salvation and discipleship are two separate things entirely. Whether or not a believer lives a holy life has nothing to do with the “free gift” (Romans 5:15) of salvation. Those who say otherwise are adding works to grace, which the Bible condemns (Romans 11:6). Salvation cannot be by God's grace AND man's self-righteous works. Revelation 22:17 states: “...And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”
We are clearly taught from God's Word that works are NOT essential to our salvation. Titus 3:5 states... “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...” And again in Ephesians 2:8,9 we are told, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” We are all Hell-deserving sinners! We do NOT have anything to do with salvation except to receive God's free gift by FAITH. Salvation is receiving, NOT giving. Romans 4:5 reads, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” This is how Abraham was saved in the Old Testament, i.e., his faith was COUNTED for righteousness (Genesis 15:6). Acts 10:43 teaches that Old Testament sinners were saved exactly as they are today... “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
If I cannot do good works to get saved,
then how can I do bad works to lose salvation?
Eternal life is a gift, paid for by Jesus' precious, redeeming, literal, physical, liquid, blood (1st Peter 1:18,19; Hebrews 9:12; Revelation 1:5). Shame on those heretics, such as Dan Corner, who corrupt the simplicity that is in Christ.
There is a perverted theology today that mixes faith in Christ with surrendering one's life to God in obedience. This false doctrine is called “Lordship Salvation” and it is evil. The very idea that one's lifestyle is a part of saving faith is damnable heresy. Opponents of Eternal Security all follow Lordship Salvation, and they all use the corrupted New International Version. Please listen to the MP3 sermon by Dr. Curtis Hutson titled, “Why A Man Goes To Hell” (Men are not lost because they won't quit their sinning!”).
Perhaps you ask, what if a believer loses faith? A believer certainly may become discouraged, or falter in their faith for a time. John the Baptist became discouraged and wavered in his faith, even questioning if Jesus were the Christ (Matthew 11:3); yet, Jesus called John the greatest born amongst women (Matthew 11:3,11). The Apostle Peter denied that he knew Christ, cursing the name of Jesus; but the Holy Spirit convicted him, and Peter afterwards repented. When king David commit the sins of adultery, conspiracy and murder, he greatly shamed and brought reproach upon the name of the Lord; yet, we find David repenting, crying out to God for mercy as a Christian in Psalms 51, and God faithfully pardoned him. David never lost God's salvation. If saved, always saved! None of these believers LOST their salvation, and there's not one shred of Biblical evidence to show otherwise.
If you are a parent, your child didn't make a commitment to become your child; but rather, they were born to become your child. Likewise, we are born-again to become God's child. Just as a child has absolutely NOTHING to do with his or her own birth, neither does the Christian have anything to do with their spiritual birth. It is completely of God. Our part is done the moment we receive Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God—believing that He died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and raised up from the dead three days later (1st Corinthians 15:1-4). John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”
If you don't believe the Bible, you can either get right or die wrong.

for more information please visit http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/eternal_security.htm
 
Last edited:

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
73
48
#2
Starr
Eternal Security
You CANNOT lose your salvation!
by David J. Stewart | January 2004 | Updated October 2014
Eternal Security is the Biblical doctrine that a believer CANNOT lose salvation in Christ Jesus. I recently spoke with a Church of Christ minister who believed that a Christian could LOSE their salvation by failing to maintain a “relationship” with God. Of course, that is a lie of the Devil. The Charismatics are also plagued with this false belief that a person can lose their salvation. Calvinists call this false doctrine, the “
Perseverance of the Saints,” that is, they say that you must persevere in good works and continued faith to remain in a state of salvation. The Salvation Army teaches this heresy.
In sharp contrast to the heresies you've just learned about, the Bible teaches: “If Saved, Always Saved.” Salvation is not doing your best, it is having Christ's best put to your account through receiving Him by faith. Christ died for our sins on the cross, He was buried and raised up bodily from the dead three days later. This is the Gospel (1st Corinthians 15:1-4). John 6:28-29, “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” Believe and the work is done, you are saved securely and eternally.

Salvation is By Faith Alone in the Gospel
SInce mankind has nothing to do with saving himself, then why would God require men to do something to maintain it? Salvation is of God, not men. Paul said to “work out your own salvation” in Philippians 2:12; the Bible doesn't say to work out GOD'S SALVATION. God saves a person, pulling them out of the fires of Hell, but now that person needs to be recycled. It is up to us whether we yield to the Holy Spirit or not in our daily life, to search and obey the Scriptures. However, salvation and discipleship are two separate things entirely. Whether or not a believer lives a holy life has nothing to do with the “free gift” (Romans 5:15) of salvation. Those who say otherwise are adding works to grace, which the Bible condemns (Romans 11:6). Salvation cannot be by God's grace AND man's self-righteous works. Revelation 22:17 states: “...And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”
We are clearly taught from God's Word that works are NOT essential to our salvation. Titus 3:5 states... “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...” And again in Ephesians 2:8,9 we are told, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” We are all Hell-deserving sinners! We do NOT have anything to do with salvation except to receive God's free gift by FAITH. Salvation is receiving, NOT giving. Romans 4:5 reads, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” This is how Abraham was saved in the Old Testament, i.e., his faith was COUNTED for righteousness (Genesis 15:6). Acts 10:43 teaches that Old Testament sinners were saved exactly as they are today... “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
If I cannot do good works to get saved,
then how can I do bad works to lose salvation?
Eternal life is a gift, paid for by Jesus' precious, redeeming, literal, physical, liquid, blood (1st Peter 1:18,19; Hebrews 9:12; Revelation 1:5). Shame on those heretics, such as Dan Corner, who corrupt the simplicity that is in Christ.
There is a perverted theology today that mixes faith in Christ with surrendering one's life to God in obedience. This false doctrine is called “Lordship Salvation” and it is evil. The very idea that one's lifestyle is a part of saving faith is damnable heresy. Opponents of Eternal Security all follow Lordship Salvation, and they all use the corrupted New International Version. Please listen to the MP3 sermon by Dr. Curtis Hutson titled, “Why A Man Goes To Hell” (Men are not lost because they won't quit their sinning!”).
Perhaps you ask, what if a believer loses faith? A believer certainly may become discouraged, or falter in their faith for a time. John the Baptist became discouraged and wavered in his faith, even questioning if Jesus were the Christ (Matthew 11:3); yet, Jesus called John the greatest born amongst women (Matthew 11:3,11). The Apostle Peter denied that he knew Christ, cursing the name of Jesus; but the Holy Spirit convicted him, and Peter afterwards repented. When king David commit the sins of adultery, conspiracy and murder, he greatly shamed and brought reproach upon the name of the Lord; yet, we find David repenting, crying out to God for mercy as a Christian in Psalms 51, and God faithfully pardoned him. David never lost God's salvation. If saved, always saved! None of these believers LOST their salvation, and there's not one shred of Biblical evidence to show otherwise.
If you are a parent, your child didn't make a commitment to become your child; but rather, they were born to become your child. Likewise, we are born-again to become God's child. Just as a child has absolutely NOTHING to do with his or her own birth, neither does the Christian have anything to do with their spiritual birth. It is completely of God. Our part is done the moment we receive Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God—believing that He died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and raised up from the dead three days later (1st Corinthians 15:1-4). John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”
If you don't believe the Bible, you can either get right or die wrong.

for more information please visit http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/eternal_security.htm
**** James says faith without works is dead being alone----maybe our faith can be turned away from--- maybe our natural faith works can wither---- could we be cast as a dead branch...?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#3
This is why I didn't bother reading the rest --
[FONT=&quot]I recently spoke with a Church of Christ minister who believed that a Christian could LOSE their salvation by failing to maintain a “relationship” with God. Of course, that is a lie of the Devil. The Charismatics are also plagued with this false belief that a person can lose their salvation. Calvinists call this false doctrine, the “[/FONT]Perseverance of the Saints[FONT=&quot],” that is, they say that you must persevere in good works and continued faith to remain in a state of salvation. [/FONT]The Salvation Army teaches this heresy.


Soooo, according to this, every type of Christian out here is wrong? (And wrong according to lies created in the very description of what they believe... or simply didn't tell what the Salvation Army believes.)

Errrr, yeap! Really not worth reading the rest.
:rolleyes:
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
69
48
#4
This is why I didn't bother reading the rest --


Soooo, according to this, every type of Christian out here is wrong? (And wrong according to lies created in the very description of what they believe... or simply didn't tell what the Salvation Army believes.)

Errrr, yeap! Really not worth reading the rest.
:rolleyes:
You don't make any sense.
Are you speaking only to the writer of the OP who may know you or are you speaking to all of us who are reading and awaiting a sound rebuttal?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,632
1,898
113
#5
Starr**** James says faith without works is dead being alone----maybe our faith can be turned away from--- maybe our natural faith works can wither---- could we be cast as a dead branch...?
Why seek to create doubt? Are not the words of Jesus security enough? If as scripture teaches we are saved by grace then how can our unfaithfulness frustrate the grace of God?

The salvation that is given and received through grace cannot be revoked.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,854
677
113
#6
We cannot lose salvation but we can give it up. Salvation is a gift and the only way to not have something given to you that is impossible to lose is to throw it away it away. Also I agree with this minster if you do not have or refuse to maintain a relationship with God then you basically are one of those Christian by title, although as to if that means you threw away your salvation idk but the reason Christianity is not religion is solely because of the actual bond and relationship with God we have without that all we have is religion.

If one has no relationship with him yet continues to try to act the christian they are cold not hot they may even be lukewarm, how can you get to know someone if there is no relationship? it's one thing to read about someone but unless you actually know them and actually have a bond with them your just reading about them
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
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#7
Hi kevan,

Could you please expound on this and tell us all what THIS means??

John 6:28-29, “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” Believe and the work is done, you are saved securely and eternally.

Could you please explain to us all what the word BELIEVE means as Jesus used it, as the Apostles used it and as the first church Fathers used it when the church was new.

Thanks.
Fran
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,978
674
113
#8
"Salvation is by faith alone"
(Seen in large print in the opening post)

Really, do you have a Scripture for that?

(1) First of all it is probably more correct to say salvation is by grace (through faith)
[SUP] [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: - Ephesians 2:8

(2) Secondly, nowhere does Scripture say it is "faith alone"
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." James 2:24 - I think that this verse when properly understood is not saying that salvation is by faith plus works, but is making the point that a "faith alone" is not a faith at all (a dead faith).

I would say that we are not saved by faith alone. We are saved by grace through faith which then allows God to produce good works in us (Eph. 2:10 - "we are his workmanship")

 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,632
1,898
113
#9
"Salvation is by faith alone"
(Seen in large print in the opening post)

Really, do you have a Scripture for that?

(1) First of all it is probably more correct to say salvation is by grace (through faith)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: - Ephesians 2:8

(2) Secondly, nowhere does Scripture say it is "faith alone"
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." James 2:24 - I think that this verse when properly understood is not saying that salvation is by faith plus works, but is making the point that a "faith alone" is not a faith at all (a dead faith).

I would say that we are not saved by faith alone. We are saved by grace through faith which then allows God to produce good works in us (Eph. 2:10 - "we are his workmanship")

James states that a man is justified by works. James does not say that a man is saved by works. On the matter of justification before whom do our works justify us? Our works never justify us before God.

Grace is sufficient to save us and keep us sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. To be presented faultless before the throne of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,978
674
113
#10
"There is a perverted theology today that mixes faith in Christ with surrendering one's life to God in obedience. This false doctrine is called “Lordship Salvation” and it is evil."

Agreed that salvation is by grace through faith, not by works! 100% correct!

The problem I have with the above statement as it is written is that it makes it seem like surrendering one's life to God is a negative thing, some stringent requirement! Surrendering my life to Christ and letting him be Lord of my life has been the most blessed and joyful and enriching and invigorating experience I could ask for. He is Lord of my life, and I love it! He is the most gentle, kind, loving Father! Lordship is not a string attached onto salvation, but is as much a beautiful part of salvation as is forgiveness and heaven.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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#11
Why seek to create doubt? Are not the words of Jesus security enough? If as scripture teaches we are saved by grace then how can our unfaithfulness frustrate the grace of God?

The salvation that is given and received through grace cannot be revoked.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Could you please quote some scripture regarding the security of the words of Jesus?
I read the gospels and hear Him saying a lot about doing works.
For instance, in Mathew 5 Jesus speaks about how we're to transform our lives. Mathew 5:3-8
In Mathew 24, He tells about how we're to dress the naked, feed the hungry, etc. Mathew 25:35-37
He also speaks a lot about hell and how we should stay on the narrow road and how some branches will be cut off.
Mathew 7:19


Please quote a scripture where Jesus says that we are secure just by believing in Him.

I also believe that we are safe and sound AS LONG AS WE BELIEVE IN HIM. I don't read anywhere in the N.T. that we are safe and secure IF WE ABANDON HIM.

Thanks.
Fran
 

kevan1234

Junior Member
Sep 17, 2015
12
0
1
#12
Are We Justified by Faith and Works?
By David J. Stewart
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." —James 2:24
No! Many people misunderstand the words of James the Apostle because they don't know their Bible well. I don't think I've received even one letter of debate from a Catholic who didn't bring up the words of James, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (James 2:18). James goes on to say in verse 24, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." At first glance, it sure does seem like the Bible is requiring works for salvation; BUT, as you will see, nothing could be further from the TRUTH!
Carefully notice James 2:21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" This event took place in Genesis 22:8-10. Now notice Genesis 15:6, "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness." The event which took place in Genesis 15:6 was different from the event which took place in Genesis 22:8-10. We see in the New Testament that Paul spoke of the ROOT of Abraham's faith; BUT, James spoke of the FRUIT of Abraham's faith. We read in Romans 4:3, "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." This occurred in Genesis 15:6, which is when Abraham was born again. Paul said in Romans 5:1, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Paul doesn't mention works. Romans 4:5 declares, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Yet, James declares in James 2:21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" This event took place years later, when Isaac had grown at least old enough to speak clearly to his father (Genesis 22:7). James is simply saying that if a person is genuinely saved by faith, then there should be some FRUIT (good works) in that person's life to show it. BUT, James was NOT teaching that works are necessary to be saved--they aren't! Abraham was saved by faith ALONE! Titus 3:5 clearly states, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..."
Also, notice carefully James' words, "...shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (James 2:18). With God we are justified by FAITH; BUT with men we are justified by WORKS. The reason is simply because mankind cannot see out heart; but God can. We read in 1st Samuel 16:7, "...for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." James said, "shew me" your faith and I'll "shew you" my faith. Every believer possessing the Holy Spirit of God should be a new creature in the Lord, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." This is what James was looking for.
So don't let any Catholic fool you into believing that you must have good works to go to Heaven, you don't. Looking at the Old Testament by itself, I would never have any reason to think that Lot was a Christian. Yet, we read in 2nd Peter 2:6-7, "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked." Did you read that ... "just Lot"? James was simply teaching that there should be some good works in a Christian's life to back up his testimony. However, this doesn't mean conclusively that a professed Christian without any good works is not saved. We certainly have a right to question their salvation; BUT, we cannot say for certain because we cannot see their heart. King David killed an innocent man (Uriah) to hide an unwanted pregnancy from an affair with the man's wife (Bathsheba). Would you have thought David was a Christian at that moment? Of course not! But David was a Christian, who had sinned horribly.
The Book of James should be a challenge to every believer to "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16). And the Book of Romans should be a challenge to every believer to be aggressive in winning lost souls to Christ, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth..." Most importantly is that we NOT confuse the ROOT of our faith, with the FRUIT of our faith--because ADDING works to faith is a sure road to Hell.
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." —Romans 4:5
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,632
1,898
113
#13
Could you please quote some scripture regarding the security of the words of Jesus?
I read the gospels and hear Him saying a lot about doing works.
For instance, in Mathew 5 Jesus speaks about how we're to transform our lives. Mathew 5:3-8
In Mathew 24, He tells about how we're to dress the naked, feed the hungry, etc. Mathew 25:35-37
He also speaks a lot about hell and how we should stay on the narrow road and how some branches will be cut off.
Mathew 7:19


Please quote a scripture where Jesus says that we are secure just by believing in Him.

I also believe that we are safe and sound AS LONG AS WE BELIEVE IN HIM. I don't read anywhere in the N.T. that we are safe and secure IF WE ABANDON HIM.

Thanks.
Fran
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Cannot go back to the old any more than the butterfly can once again become a caterpillar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#14
You don't make any sense.
Are you speaking only to the writer of the OP who may know you or are you speaking to all of us who are reading and awaiting a sound rebuttal?
It's difficult to rebut such a long post. Maybe we could take one thing at a time?
Here's the first mistake I came across:

[FONT=&quot] I recently spoke with a [/FONT]Church of Christ minister who believed that a Christian could LOSE their salvation by failing to maintain a “relationship” with God. Of course, that is a lie of the Devil

Why would the OP put relationship in quotes? Isn't it necessary to maintain a relationship with God? If I'm married to my husband, shouldn't I maintain a relationship with him? If I don't, am I married to him, separated, divorced?

God spoke of sons in the O.T. Israel was a "son". Also a metaphor for believers and for Jesus.
In the N.T. we read about the Sonship we have with God.

Could we disuss this? I hear that once we are sons of God, we cannot unbecome sons. I don't believe this is true. A son can be disinherited by a father. He could be kicked out of the home. Many times we hear fathers say " I no longer have a son." in God's case, this would be much more serious since our eternal soul is at risk.

We could do a whole study just on this. Let's start with this.

Romans 8.16 THE SPIRIT HIMSELF TESTIFIES WITH OUR SPIRIT THAT WE ARE CHILDREN OF GOD.

IF we stop believing in God, do we still have His spirit??

Fran
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
69
48
#15
Could you please quote some scripture regarding the security of the words of Jesus?
I read the gospels and hear Him saying a lot about doing works.
For instance, in Mathew 5 Jesus speaks about how we're to transform our lives. Mathew 5:3-8
In Mathew 24, He tells about how we're to dress the naked, feed the hungry, etc. Mathew 25:35-37
He also speaks a lot about hell and how we should stay on the narrow road and how some branches will be cut off.
Mathew 7:19


Please quote a scripture where Jesus says that we are secure just by believing in Him.

I also believe that we are safe and sound AS LONG AS WE BELIEVE IN HIM. I don't read anywhere in the N.T. that we are safe and secure IF WE ABANDON HIM.

Thanks.
Fran
John 6:29;
"The work of God is this; to believe in the one he has sent."

There are no greater works we can do.
This is it.
Our belief in Jesus Christ by the grace of God is what saves us.
Not how many times we feed the poor.
Not anything else.
Don't add anything to the Gospel.
This is it.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,978
674
113
#16
Cannot go back to the old any more than the butterfly can once again become a caterpillar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
The butterfly dies and decays.
It becomes a part of the soil.
A tree takes the nutrients from the soil and sprouts leaves.
A caterpillar eats the leaves. LOL! :)

Now the same atoms that were in the butterfly are once again a caterpillar. It happens all the time in the natural world that God created!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,632
1,898
113
#17
The butterfly dies and decays.
It becomes a part of the soil.
A tree takes the nutrients from the soil and sprouts leaves.
A caterpillar eats the leaves. LOL! :)

Now the same atoms that were in the butterfly are once again a caterpillar. It happens all the time in the natural world that God created!
That you will believe without question yet you strain at the word of God.

Mt 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

God made the atoms and the subatomic particles that make up the atoms. You can trust His word more than you can trust science and the natural world but even the natural world testifies to the God Who created it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
#18
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Cannot go back to the old any more than the butterfly can once again become a caterpillar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I'm sorry Notuptome, these scriptures do not say that Jesus said to just believe in Him and you'd be OK.

1. John 6:47
HE THAT BELIEVETH IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE.

What if you STOP believing? Do you still have everlasting life? Please keep reading...

2. John 6:51b IF ANYONE EATS OF THIS LIVING BREAD, HE WILL LIVE FOREVER.

If you EAT of the living bread, you will live forever. What if you stop eating of it? Do you still live forever?

3. 2 Corinthians 5:17 THEREFORE IF ANY MAN IS IN CHRIST HE IS A NEW CREATURE, THE OLD THINGS HAVE PASSED AWAY...

You use the wrong analogy with the butterfly. A butterfly cannot become a worm again, but man can fall back and return to his old ways and ignore God and abandon God.

If this happens, and this person has fallen away and abandoned our Savior, is he still saved?
I'm not talking about sinning, I'm talking about abandoning God.

There are so many scriptures that say to hold firm. Here's one:
1 John 2:28 AND NOW LITTLE CHILDREN, ABIDE IN HIM...

What does ABIDE mean? To live in Christ. IF someone leaves Christ, is he still ABIDING in Him? There are many more but some like to avoid those verses. Here are just a few: 1 John 3:3 1 John 3:9-10 (a tree is known by its fruit) Rev 21:6-8.

Fran
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,632
1,898
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#19
I'm sorry Notuptome, these scriptures do not say that Jesus said to just believe in Him and you'd be OK.

1. John 6:47
HE THAT BELIEVETH IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE.

What if you STOP believing? Do you still have everlasting life? Please keep reading...

2. John 6:51b IF ANYONE EATS OF THIS LIVING BREAD, HE WILL LIVE FOREVER.

If you EAT of the living bread, you will live forever. What if you stop eating of it? Do you still live forever?

3. 2 Corinthians 5:17 THEREFORE IF ANY MAN IS IN CHRIST HE IS A NEW CREATURE, THE OLD THINGS HAVE PASSED AWAY...

You use the wrong analogy with the butterfly. A butterfly cannot become a worm again, but man can fall back and return to his old ways and ignore God and abandon God.

If this happens, and this person has fallen away and abandoned our Savior, is he still saved?
I'm not talking about sinning, I'm talking about abandoning God.

There are so many scriptures that say to hold firm. Here's one:
1 John 2:28 AND NOW LITTLE CHILDREN, ABIDE IN HIM...

What does ABIDE mean? To live in Christ. IF someone leaves Christ, is he still ABIDING in Him? There are many more but some like to avoid those verses. Here are just a few: 1 John 3:3 1 John 3:9-10 (a tree is known by its fruit) Rev 21:6-8.

Fran
You must first understand that the salvation God gives through grace is not just a renovation on an old building. God completely makes new the old sinful soul. God makes alive to Him the soul that was dead in trespass and sin. God does not just start us on a path that leads to salvation God takes us all the way to eternal life in Him.

Man is powerless to undo the curse of sin and the resulting death. God is fully able to save and to seal forever the souls that seeks Him to save them. Where sin did abound grace did much more abound unto eternal life.

For a Christian to fall back into sin is a great shame. Christ bore our shame upon Himself at the cross of Calvary. Even our shame is under the blood.

Lucifer knows he cannot drag your soul into eternal condemnation after you have received Christ. Lucifer knows that if he attacks a believer some will suffer loss of their testimony for Christ. Even when we are tempted and fail Christ is right there to pick us back up and brush away the hurt that we will be brought safely into the fold. This is what the Great Shepherd does for the flock.

We all do well to invest more effort in believing Gods word and less time in being critical of Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Nov 19, 2016
502
18
0
#20
You cannot really argue with people,either logically,or scripturally,for if they believe they cannot fall away,that is what they will believe,and cannot be shaken,like Jesus said if they do not hear the word of Moses,they will not believe even if one rose from the dead and told them.

But what do we do about these scriptures,how do we justify them,if we cannot fall away from the truth.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

What do we do with these scriptures,and these scriptures is speaking of people already saved,not people that claim Christ but have not been saved.
 
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