EVOLUTION IN THE BIBLE? ARE YOU KIDDING?!

[Cup-of-Ruin]

What is the underlying belief of the ICR? They start off assuming that everything is created. From this assumption, all their findings will surely be biased and inevitably result in conclusions in keeping with the bible.

Likewise, if you had an Institute for Atheistic Research or Evolution Research, these findings would inevitably prove there is no god or that evolution is true.

The least biased research should be from Secular Scientists. Secular meaning no bias from ANY religion. People within such an organisation can be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist, etc. It's beside the point - the research and the religion are separate. Likewise Scientist - not Evolutionist nor Creationist, primarily following the rules of Science. They could believe in either or neither, but it is not a blanket view.

By promoting research from a Creationist Research centre, you'd also say research from an Evolutionist Research centre is equally valid (for a Evolutionist) - both of which are biased. It's best to follow Secular Science, and view it in light of your own beliefs (i.e. from the Bible).

Greetings,

Secular Science is a religion, it has been around for thousands of years, it's not the oldest religion, as Christianity has that distinct title, Christ created the universe, and Adam believed that, Adam was the first man believing in the Christ to come as the seed of the woman, so Adam was the first Christian.

The rules of science are established by God, in opposition 'secular science' has made up it's own rules that are irrational and illogical, God however is a God of reason and logic and cares not for the madness of science so called!

Secular Science is a religion, nay, it is more a crude primitive faith based on illusion and ignorance.

 

[jene]

evolution is science,the bible describes how God created the heavens and the earth,out of the question is the way He waves is hands and some devine power He uses to formulate everything but as we know,the air has different atoms amd molecules,that can be transformed into another substance that is useful to our environment,then to see the human body is created wherein water is the basic component and oxygen etc.that is readily available even before God created everything,Then to me GOD is the greatest scientist of all,because He is the inventor of every single thing that we see around us,that is i, say of nature,Genesis is the Creation,God said in one of the verses,"Let us create man in our own image',or likeness in some other versions,that means if we are created in the image of God then,most probably God looks just like us,and one thing i believed and i know is he has given us humans,the power to create and invent new things that will be helpful to our lives,thats why God place the human brains above the head for humans to think first before they act.

 

[jene]

evolution is science,the bible describes how God created the heavens and the earth,out of the question is the way He waves is hands and some devine power He uses to formulate everything but as we know,the air has different atoms amd molecules,that can be transformed into another substance that is useful to our environment,then to see the human body is created wherein water is the basic component and oxygen etc.that is readily available even before God created everything,Then to me GOD is the greatest scientist of all,because He is the inventor of every single thing that we see around us,that is i, say of nature,Genesis is the Creation,God said in one of the verses,"Let us create man in our own image',or likeness in some other versions,that means if we are created in the image of God then,most probably God looks just like us,and one thing i believed and i know is he has given us humans,the power to create and invent new things that will be helpful to our lives,thats why God place the human brains above the head for humans to think first before they act.Unexplainable but it happenned,evolution happens everytime man made mistakes of destroying the earth,if then how would you explain the origin of dinossaurs,wherein nowadays their bones and dna appear to us as a reality,we cannot deny the fact that the bible is the recorded book of all times,when God flooded the earth to wash out every sinful human beings around His sight maybe,He cannot bear to see how humans try to destroy themselves wherein it is quoted that our body is the temple of GOD ,have you seen corals and reef on top of the mountain?wherein the soil and stones are made of compact shells and corals,i dont think somebody will climb that mountain just to put those things on top of it,maybe a big flood brought it there,a big shell size, of a 30"television set,well i've seen it with my own eyes,how old is the earth now?2,000 years that is BC.well the flood in the time of Noah was one way of teaching humans to respect God's creation,that is He as the creator will act first to destroy what He created before humans do to destroy His creation.But still with compassion and love to us because God gave warning signs that,He is angry of what humans are doing to ourselves and to the environment perse,and even told noah,that if He sees another human being that is good to His sight then he will not flood the earth at that time ,there was none aside from noah.

 

[jene]

Its a matter of questions and theories to answer everything religion is out of the question,humans of different races believe with their own respected God, that there is a God,believing what is said in the bible is our freewill that God has given us,to what i knew there is someone out there created us,not from monkeys or anything,but created humans as a masterpiece.one question to raise ,where is now paradise located,as the bible mention well thats another story to tell but if you will base on the rivers that surrounds the island theologists study that it was located in iraq.well evolution happens billions of years ago, we dont know maybe,how does it looks like then , did the bible describes what is realy inside that place called paradise?

 

[WENSPI]

“Along the way Darwinism’s adversaries often followed suit,” Father Leclerc said. They confused the “scientific theory of evolution with the all-encompassing ideology that distorted it and reject the idea altogether as incompatible with the religious vision of reality. And such a situation might explain why some ‘creationist’ notions or ideas like ‘intelligent design’ have made a comeback as alternative theories. Even if at this level we are far from a scientific discussion, we still have to examine this state of affairs at both the philosophical and theological levels.”
Father Leclerc, who questions ‘intelligent design’, said none the less that it will be discussed but only from a critical historical perspective, because “God does come as a deus ex machine to fill the gaps of a scientific theory”. For him, claims such as these are “confusing [different] levels” and something “completely unacceptable.”
In reality from a theological perspective, illustrated by Fr Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti, professor of fundamental theology at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross, there is “a well established” tradition “that reconciles the notion of creation with the idea that the world evolves in time and history, a world where events which we consider causal are possible,” and “where catastrophes, extinctions and a certain opposition among species exists.”


“From the perspective of Christian theology, biological evolution and creation are by no means mutually exclusive. We can, if we consider the term evolution more broadly without any reference to any one specific evolutionary mechanism, that evolution is ultimately God’s tool of creation, insofar as evolution is understood as a progressive [process of] diversification, organisation and complexification of the morphology of living beings.”
“For example, who can claim,” he added, “that what appears to be random before our eyes does not follow any rules, i.e. a Creator? Only when randomness or indeterminism are morphed into a philosophical absolute that has no place for an underlying plan for the world or finds no meaningfulness in evolution coming from the Creator, can an apparent but fallacious clash between science and theology develop.”

 

[DinoDillinger]

Jesus spoke many parables in the gospel to the masses because they couldn't fathom the true meaning. The people of Moses time couldn't begin to comprehend the actual Creation so he used a parable to explain it. The bible actually says He lets you disprove it to catch those who think they are smart. Evolution is just man trying to understand the work of God. Which is futile. Where evolution is wrong is the randomness of it. They use randomness because they can't prove God, what would be the point of faith is you could prove it. The bible says that you exist proves He exists so there! HaHa. You could point out several parts of evolution that prove the bible. Like man being made from dust for instance.

To totally dismiss evolution is to miss out on seeing how God works and his infiniteness. Thinking God's time is the same as our time seems silly to me. What I don't understand in the Bible I take by faith, for how could our mind totally understand God.

Anyways no point in argueing just a waste of time really. But if you must.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

“Along the way Darwinism’s adversaries often followed suit,” Father Leclerc said. They confused the “scientific theory of evolution with the all-encompassing ideology that distorted it and reject the idea altogether as incompatible with the religious vision of reality. And such a situation might explain why some ‘creationist’ notions or ideas like ‘intelligent design’ have made a comeback as alternative theories. Even if at this level we are far from a scientific discussion, we still have to examine this state of affairs at both the philosophical and theological levels.”
Father Leclerc, who questions ‘intelligent design’, said none the less that it will be discussed but only from a critical historical perspective, because “God does come as a deus ex machine to fill the gaps of a scientific theory”. For him, claims such as these are “confusing [different] levels” and something “completely unacceptable.”
In reality from a theological perspective, illustrated by Fr Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti, professor of fundamental theology at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross, there is “a well established” tradition “that reconciles the notion of creation with the idea that the world evolves in time and history, a world where events which we consider causal are possible,” and “where catastrophes, extinctions and a certain opposition among species exists.”


“From the perspective of Christian theology, biological evolution and creation are by no means mutually exclusive. We can, if we consider the term evolution more broadly without any reference to any one specific evolutionary mechanism, that evolution is ultimately God’s tool of creation, insofar as evolution is understood as a progressive [process of] diversification, organisation and complexification of the morphology of living beings.”
“For example, who can claim,” he added, “that what appears to be random before our eyes does not follow any rules, i.e. a Creator? Only when randomness or indeterminism are morphed into a philosophical absolute that has no place for an underlying plan for the world or finds no meaningfulness in evolution coming from the Creator, can an apparent but fallacious clash between science and theology develop.”

The point cannot be compromise or acceptance of a false doctrine such as "evolution", because not only is it by definition and practice anti-Christian, but it is also false. To put it simply "evolution" is a fraud and is without scientific basis. The fact is that by universal law such as the 2nd law of thermodynamics decrees that the universe over time becomes less complex, less diversified, less organized, entropy is increasing! And this is the opposite of "evolution" and the very basis for the original creation which is evident in all that exists.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Jesus spoke many parables in the gospel to the masses because they couldn't fathom the true meaning. The people of Moses time couldn't begin to comprehend the actual Creation so he used a parable to explain it. The bible actually says He lets you disprove it to catch those who think they are smart. Evolution is just man trying to understand the work of God. Which is futile. Where evolution is wrong is the randomness of it. They use randomness because they can't prove God, what would be the point of faith is you could prove it. The bible says that you exist proves He exists so there! HaHa. You could point out several parts of evolution that prove the bible. Like man being made from dust for instance.

To totally dismiss evolution is to miss out on seeing how God works and his infiniteness. Thinking God's time is the same as our time seems silly to me. What I don't understand in the Bible I take by faith, for how could our mind totally understand God.

Anyways no point in argueing just a waste of time really. But if you must.

Man is made of the exact same elements that can be found in red clay, we are literally made out of clay, that is scientifically accurate, there is no way that over time 70 trillion cells can organize by chance into the living and breathing human being, the human being must be formed instantaneously, blood moving throgh the veins, the 70 trillion cells must come together perfectly ordered the first time in one instant, with the brain operational, the blood pumping and in a mature adult state. And then to reproduce the same miracle must be achieved again, but different, another 70 trillion cells must come together in feminine formation as opposed to male, this must happen in close proximaty of the male and be made and formed of exactly the same material, perfectly ordered, perfectly timed, perfectly concieved and in perfect mature adult form.

The evolutionists view of reality is absurdly warped beyond reasonable consideration, "evolution" as a theory for the origin of life as we know it is completely and utterly false, not only is it false but its premise, it's concept is immature and primitive, base, crude and pathetic.

 

[Densetzu]

Um... You really have no idea how evolution is supposed to have happened.

70 trillion cells didn't come together and magically form a human. Two cells come together--a sperm and an egg--and gradually develop in the womb into a human being.

It's no less a miracle, but... seriously. Do a little research.

 

[Knightjester]

Creation, Evolution, Cosmic Webs, Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Big Bang, Big Badda-Boom ,.
... and all your super-intellect-mind-thinking-ness,. it's all useless!
Don't you know that God is beyond of all these things?
God is mighty, you might wanna be friend with Him!
You can start by "love one another"
And umm,. one more thing; Be humble.

With Love,
~Ren

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Um... You really have no idea how evolution is supposed to have happened.

Um...I know it did not happen.

70 trillion cells didn't come together and magically form a human.

I didn't say 'magically', I said 'instantaneously', God performed this act of human genesis in a instant, just one moment of time, he concieved in his mind and fashioned from elemental clay the physical form of a mature human adult; Adam, then taking a rib from Adam he proceeded to concieve and form a female human also as a fully developed adult, like Adam perfect and prime of life, also formed instantaneously by a creative act of God.

Two cells come together--a sperm and an egg--and gradually develop in the womb into a human being.

Yes that is reproduction.

It's no less a miracle, but... seriously. Do a little research.

It is a miracle, God has performed an amazing miracle. It is likely that you are scientifically illiterate due to the indoctrinations of a secular state education, with some research and God willing you may be able to free yourself from that unfortunate 'education'.

 

[above]

Um... You really have no idea how evolution is supposed to have happened.

70 trillion cells didn't come together and magically form a human. Two cells come together--a sperm and an egg--and gradually develop in the womb into a human being.

It's no less a miracle, but... seriously. Do a little research.

Amen! Otherwise they will start to argue that the sun revolves around the earth and that outer space is FULL OF WATER AND THATS WHY IT'S BLUE (it says so in Genesis 1, but no one seems to care about that).

 

[above]

Um...I know it did not happen.

Um, but it's happening every day, everywhere. It's not like it suddenly stopped. I thought that you just believe god created life 6000 years ago, I didn't know that you actually think there is no evolution

Well, then Noah sure had a lot of space on his arc, didn't he? Right know we have named 1.8 million different species (that's species, not races who could have occurred by crossbreeding. so all kinds of dogs count as 1 species) but it is estimated that there are around 5 million different ones.
Well that's space for 10 million different animals, including food and drinkingwater. And that for one year.
I read somewhere that he only took baby animals on board. Well, that makes sense. Feeding 10 million animals really is a easy job for 8 people! Provided that they worked 24h a day without never sleeping or eating themselfes they only had to handfeed 15 different animals per second!
And the space... if every animal only needed one square meter, that would be 10 million square meters, about 3.8 square miles. Not bad! If every animal needs ~100ml of water a day, thats 1 million litres, thats 1000 tons. A day. Over a year that is 365 thousand tons of water. The biggest ship ever build by humankind, the "Freedom of the Seas" is only 340x60 meters and can only carry 70 million kilos.
And I didn't even calculate the fishtanks. "Fishtanks?" you might ask "Haha you simple fool they can just swim in the water!"
No, they can't.
Because of the rainfall, the level of salt in the water would have changed. So basicly Noah had to save every single fish on earth. For that, of cause, he had to construct a pressure chamber, because some fish can't live on the surface (they would blow up like a balloon). Probably he made that chamber out of wood.

I could go on and on, but you get my point.

Yeah, your version makes so much more sense.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Um, but it's happening every day, everywhere.

No it's not, there is no evidence of "evolution" anywhere, not a single 'evolutionary' event has ever been recorded.

It's not like it suddenly stopped. I thought that you just believe god created life 6000 years ago, I didn't know that you actually think there is no evolution

There is nothing smart or funny about bearing false witness against me. I have never stated that 'God created life'6000 years ago'...Never...So why do you say that I believe that?

Well, then Noah sure had a lot of space on his arc, didn't he?

I don't have any idea what you are talking about????

Right know we have named 1.8 million different species (that's species, not races who could have occurred by crossbreeding. so all kinds of dogs count as 1 species) but it is estimated that there are around 5 million different ones.
Well that's space for 10 million different animals, including food and drinkingwater. And that for one year.

This statement is poorly resolved, I think you are trying to bear false witness against me again, because you are implying that I believe that Noah had every species of animal and reptile and fish and insect on board his ark, and this is simply not true, there is no Biblical basis for this, neither do I believe it or have I stated it, so again you bear false witness against me.

I think the other point you are attempting is a false one, namely that crossbreeding is an example of evolution, all crossbreeding is crossbreeding, no new species is created or can be created by crossbreeding, any variation in type will just over time revert back to original type.

I read somewhere that he only took baby animals on board.

What?

Well, that makes sense. Feeding 10 million animals really is a easy job for 8 people! Provided that they worked 24h a day without never sleeping or eating themselfes they only had to handfeed 15 different animals per second!

What are you talking about? The Deluge was localized and the Royal House of Noah took with them on the ark their possessions including livestock which they owned and sacrificial animals, and animals that were to be eaten aboard...Do you think that they Noah took Beluga Whales and Kangaroos aboard? Stop being immature and stop disrespecting holy scripture, you do not understand what is written and neither has someone explained it to you, instead of being arrogant, it would serve you better if you aquired some humilty and gained some respect for those who a clearly are more knowledgeable than yourself.

And the space... if every animal only needed one square meter, that would be 10 million square meters, about 3.8 square miles. Not bad! If every animal needs ~100ml of water a day, thats 1 million litres, thats 1000 tons. A day. Over a year that is 365 thousand tons of water. The biggest ship ever build by humankind, the "Freedom of the Seas" is only 340x60 meters and can only carry 70 million kilos.
And I didn't even calculate the fishtanks. "Fishtanks?" you might ask "Haha you simple fool they can just swim in the water!"

have you finished.

Yeah, your version makes so much more sense.

[/quote]

My version? you mean my version as a believer that God created man and the universe as per He recorded for us in the book of Genesis, because that is my version. Yes that does make more sense.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Amen! Otherwise they will start to argue that the sun revolves around the earth and that outer space is FULL OF WATER AND THATS WHY IT'S BLUE (it says so in Genesis 1, but no one seems to care about that).

I have covered this in a thread named "The Fixed Earth", in that thread I have taken the time to generally explain the structure of the universe in easy to understand terms. God's universe is Geocentric and that is clearly observed and scientifically proven cosmology, and is described as such in the Biblical account.

 

[above]

No it's not, there is no evidence of "evolution" anywhere, not a single 'evolutionary' event has ever been recorded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

If something mutates and is afterwards better adapted to its environment than before, it's called evolution. That's the definition of it. So you don't believe in mutations either?

Here is something about recent changes in the human DNA (called evolution, uuuh):
http://www.scientificblogging.com/n..._up_to_10_percent_of_human_genome_has_changed

I'm sorry that I assumed you also believe in the ark. I draw that conclusion because you take everything from the bible literally.

 

[MahogonySnail]

ahh.. Cup doesn't even believe in gravity. Good luck convincing him of evolution lol.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

If something mutates and is afterwards better adapted to its environment than before, it's called evolution. That's the definition of it. So you don't believe in mutations either?

Can I explain to you what a mutation is? A mutation is a change in genetic material, such as DNA and RNA. This occurs when there are copying errors in genetic material, do you understand what 'error' means in all this? It means a mistake, a mutation by it's very definition is a mistake. Evolutionists claim that evolution happens when "good mutations" take place over a long period of time, this type of doctrine is often taught in public state schools, or used by jounalists and quasi-sceintific publications. Mutations are most often caused by exposure to radiation or harmful toxic chemical compounds, the resulting mutation is not good or desireable, ask yourself if you would like to have your own DNA mutated, essentially becoming a mutant? I think you would find the result rather disagreeable.

A mutation is simply an error which causing the loss of information, you simply have less information recorded in your DNA due to the coping error that occurs in the mutation process, no genetic mutation has ever been found to have increased the genetic information, only decreases have ever been found to happen.

Mutations are always detrimental, there is simply no improvement to be had by taking away genetic information, the result is deformity resulting in a abnormality, Praise be to God , that this is reversable, as over time it is possible that DNA may be repaired, not always but sometimes.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

ahh.. Cup doesn't even believe in gravity. Good luck convincing him of evolution lol.

LOL, well neither did Newton.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I'm sorry that I assumed you also believe in the ark. I draw that conclusion because you take everything from the bible literally.

No, you assumed that I believed that Noah collected every single animal, insect and reptile on the earth and stored them in the Ark. There is no Biblical evidence for that, Noah collected all the animals he had in his possession on his land and placed them aboard the Ark, there was an Ark and the Royal House of Noah was aboard that Ark, as the biblical account testifies.