Faith and Deeds

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

joefizz

Guest
#81
lol no, not all faih is claimed fath. You more than anyone i have ever heard twist things and make up stuff in order to maintain your current belief.

There is true saving faith, and their is belief (dead faith) dead faith is no faith at all. That why the people were never saved, and why they never did any work (hearers not doers)
Twisting is good for making drinks outs of fruits and vegetables...
but twisting Scriptures is about as dumb as dumb can get...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
15,446
1,396
113
52
#82
So faith is revealed to be authentic by obeying GOD.
As James said, "I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2:18). Show, not establish. Obedience/works is the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
15,446
1,396
113
52
#83
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Believing into Christ is the work that GOD requires of man.
Man must choose to believe in Christ, yet do you view believing as just "another" work, like works that are produced "out of" faith?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,883
116
63
#84
As James said, "I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2:18). Show, not establish. Obedience/works is the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.
James is referring to one's individual faith. One's individual faith must be demonstrated through obedience.

Paul says that the faith that justifies the body of Christ is not our own, but the faith of Jesus Christ. The faith of Jesus Christ was demonstrated through His perfect obedience unto the Father even unto death, the death of the cross.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
680
113
#85
As James said, "I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2:18). Show, not establish. Obedience/works is the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.
Who said anything about establishing faith? I sure didn't. Obedience is the working of faith.
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,044
1,451
113
#86
James is referring to one's individual faith. One's individual faith must be demonstrated through obedience.

Paul says that the faith that justifies the body of Christ is not our own, but the faith of Jesus Christ. The faith of Jesus Christ was demonstrated through His perfect obedience unto the Father even unto death, the death of the cross.
here is the second disconnect, saying it MUST be demonstrated by obedience.

True faith works, there is no MUST about it, if the byproduct of faith is not present, it can be assumed the faith was never present either.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
680
113
#87
Man must choose to believe in Christ, yet do you view believing as just "another" work, like works that are produced "out of" faith?
I have no idea what you're talking about. The contortions you work-phobic guys go through to avoid having to admit that we have to obey GOD is amazing.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,688
232
63
#89
lol no, not all faih is claimed fath. You more than anyone i have ever heard twist things and make up stuff in order to maintain your current belief.

There is true saving faith, and their is belief (dead faith) dead faith is no faith at all. That why the people were never saved, and why they never did any work (hearers not doers)
How can a person claim to have Faith, if they don't claim to have Faith?

Why don't you try something new. Why don't you look at the scriptures I posted and explain to everyone where I am mistaken, where I am twisting them as you accuse.

In this way, you are not just accusing and insulting others for no cause, rather, you are letting the Word of God show me where I am looking at the scripture wrong. Both loving your neighbor by helping them, and Loving God by letting His Word, not your religious traditions, correct me.

This way you could actually practice what you preach for the edification of all involved.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,883
116
63
#90
here is the second disconnect, saying it MUST be demonstrated by obedience.

True faith works, there is no MUST about it, if the byproduct of faith is not present, it can be assumed the faith was never present either.
Absolutely! True faith is demonstrated by works, being obedient to God's word in what He would have you to do.

But what's important to understand is that we are not justified by our faith, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. The faith of Jesus Christ justifies! He is the just and the justifier of them that believe. The only work necessary for eternal salvation is believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. A

fter salvation is come by believing, the Christian begins to live out their new found faith through a life of obedience. Some Christians will have very little faith, thus very little obedience. Some have stronger faith, thus their life will demonstrate it. Our individual works will be tested by fire at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Rewards and inheritance is at stake, not salvation.
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,044
1,451
113
#91
I have no idea what you're talking about. The contortions you work-phobic guys go through to avoid having to admit that we have to obey GOD is amazing.

The contortion you grace-Phobic guys go through to puff up your works is quite amazing.

true faith WILL work, there is no MUST or HAVE TO about it, but you must puff yourself up, so you refuse to see it, its called religion, it sounds good, it appears right, but remember, as scripture. Says here are ways which seem right to mankind, but in the end it leads to death
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,044
1,451
113
#92
How can a person claim to have Faith, if they don't claim to have Faith?

Why don't you try something new. Why don't you look at the scriptures I posted and explain to everyone where I am mistaken, where I am twisting them as you accuse.

In this way, you are not just accusing and insulting others for no cause, rather, you are letting the Word of God show me where I am looking at the scripture wrong. Both loving your neighbor by helping them, and Loving God by letting His Word, not your religious traditions, correct me.

This way you could actually practice what you preach for the edification of all involved.
Claimed faith and true faith are not the same, i do not go around claiming i have faith, i let my actions speak.

why don’t you stop listening to whoever made up the stuff you have been trying to preach and look at the word?

and ps, you have been shown by so many people where you got it wrong, your strawman that people need to show you lost its power months ago,
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,044
1,451
113
#93
Absolutely! True faith is demonstrated by works, being obedient to God's word in what He would have you to do.

But what's important to understand is that we are not justified by our faith, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. The faith of Jesus Christ justifies! He is the just and the justifier of them that believe. The only work necessary for eternal salvation is believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. A

fter salvation is come by believing, the Christian begins to live out their new found faith through a life of obedience. Some Christians will have very little faith, thus very little obedience. Some have stronger faith, thus their life will demonstrate it. Our individual works will be tested by fire at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Rewards and inheritance is at stake, not salvation.

Oh boy, i am sorry john i cant even respond to this “jesus faith anymore”
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,883
116
63
#95
Oh boy, i am sorry john i cant even respond to this “jesus faith anymore”
Are you denying the faith of Jesus Christ?

You can depend on your own faith to justify you. I am solely depending on the faith of Jesus Christ.
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,044
1,451
113
#96
I think work is mortal sin in doctrines of work-phobia.
work is not a sin, trying to replace gods righteousness with your to earn ot maintain salvation is. This kind of nonsense got you in trouble before it is obvious you have not changed one bit.

read hebrews 11, you not only will see what true faith is (the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen) but you will see the faith hall of fame of many men and women of faith who did not boast of faith, or maintianing their salvation, 5ey lived their faith, and in the end, earned their reward (not salvation, which was a gift)
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,044
1,451
113
#97
Are you denying the faith of Jesus Christ?

You can depend on your own faith to justify you. I am solely depending on the faith of Jesus Christ.
jesus faith got him to the cross,

If you do not allow him to bring you to faith in him, you will not be saved.

 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,883
116
63
#98
work is not a sin, trying to replace gods righteousness with your to earn ot maintain salvation is. This kind of nonsense got you in trouble before it is obvious you have not changed one bit.
God's righteousness is by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Romans 321 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

How does one receive the righteousness of God? Upon believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel of Jesus Christ is His testimony on how He died on the cross for our sins, was buried and rose again.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,883
116
63
#99
jesus faith got him to the cross,

If you do not allow him to bring you to faith in him, you will not be saved.

The faith of Jesus Christ is such a precious doctrine and foundation, an immoveable Rock! No wonder Satan tries to erase it from the Bible. The faith of Jesus Christ refers to His perfect integrity, His spotless life, His perfect obedience unto His Father.
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,044
1,451
113
God's righteousness is by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Romans 321 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

How does one receive the righteousness of God? Upon believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel of Jesus Christ is His testimony on how He died on the cross for our sins, was buried and rose again.

I told you i have no desire to discuss this nonsense, you the only person on earth as far as i can see who believes this, so continue.