Faith and Deeds

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Mar 14, 2011
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'Faith in' = our walk?

I think you might have faith and works mixed up... It ain't faith in ourselves, you know.
amen, faith in does not equal our walk in the passage

it is our faith in Christs work, as apposed to faith in our own work
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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amen, faith in does not equal our walk in the passage

it is our faith in Christs work, as apposed to faith in our own work
& He, being God, did not have 'faith' in the way humans do concerning what we cannot see, but certain knowledge, and perfect faithfulness, because He knows and sees all things
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,925
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'Faith in' = our walk?

I think you might have faith and works mixed up... It ain't faith in ourselves, you know.
The phrase "faith in Christ" refers to an individual's faith which must be accompanied by obedience. Faith is one's testimony. The phrase "faith of Christ" refers to Christ's faith which was accompanied by His perfect obedience unto the Father. Christ's faith is His testimony.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,925
141
63
amen, faith in does not equal our walk in the passage

it is our faith in Christs work, as apposed to faith in our own work
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith requires substance. Faith requires evidence. The phrase "faith in Christ" refers to the individual's own personal faith in Christ which requires evidence, substance. The phrase "faith of Christ" refers to Christ's faith. Christ's faith requires evidence. Where's the evidence of Christ's faith? The cross.

Over and over Scripture beckons man to believe the gospel of Christ.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
19,343
1,801
113
The phrase "faith in Christ" refers to an individual's faith which must be accompanied by obedience. Faith is one's testimony. The phrase "faith of Christ" refers to Christ's faith which was accompanied by His perfect obedience unto the Father. Christ's faith is His testimony.
Uh, my testimony is Christ's faithfulness to me not some kind of boasting of my own works.

Christ is God, so what exactly does it mean for God to have faith in Himself?
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,305
1,734
113
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith requires substance. Faith requires evidence. The phrase "faith in Christ" refers to the individual's own personal faith in Christ which requires evidence, substance. The phrase "faith of Christ" refers to Christ's faith. Christ's faith requires evidence. Where's the evidence of Christ's faith? The cross.

Over and over Scripture beckons man to believe the gospel of Christ.
my faith has substance, it also has evidence, however in things i can not see,

the substance is christ, the evidence is the cross, the scripure which proclaims the cross and the tessurection, and the people who were witnesses to it, things i can not see,

Faith also involves hope, as paul said, the hope of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time begsn, there is the full substance of my faith. All given bu God.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
19,343
1,801
113
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith requires substance. Faith requires evidence. The phrase "faith in Christ" refers to the individual's own personal faith in Christ which requires evidence, substance. The phrase "faith of Christ" refers to Christ's faith. Christ's faith requires evidence. Where's the evidence of Christ's faith? The cross.

Over and over Scripture beckons man to believe the gospel of Christ.
Now, you said you depend wholly on the faith "of" Christ, so why does it matter one whit whether your own faith "in" Him is accompanied by obedience or not? If it matters at all, you're depending on something other than Him, ain'tcha? Something not unseen, isn't it?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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my faith has substance, it also has evidence, however in things i can not see,

the substance is christ, the evidence is the cross, the scripure which proclaims the cross and the tessurection, and the people who were witnesses to it, things i can not see,

Faith also involves hope, as paul said, the hope of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time begsn, there is the full substance of my faith. All given bu God.
Amen! Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,925
141
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Uh, my testimony is Christ's faithfulness to me not some kind of boasting of my own works.

Christ is God, so what exactly does it mean for God to have faith in Himself?
Was Christ obedient unto His Father?

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
15,717
1,800
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Over and over Scripture beckons man to believe the gospel of Christ.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

*To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.
 

Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
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Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated his faith and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning (Hebrews 11:17).
One can't have faith without demonstrating it, can he?

Otherwise he's only saying he has it.
 

Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
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Why people go to such extreme to preach that faith "is" obedience/works is not fascinating, but erroneous.
I don't say that, & I haven't seen that said in this thread. It's not true.

Straw man argument.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I don't say that, & I haven't seen that said in this thread. It's not true.

Straw man argument.
Did you read post #42 and what I said in post #60? It's not a straw man argument and is absolutely true. Prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I also defined faith "as" obedience/works and believed that salvation was by faith "plus works." I've heard this same argument from numerous works-salvationists on multiple Christian forums.
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,305
1,734
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One can't have faith without demonstrating it, can he?

Otherwise he's only saying he has it.
so did they demonstrate it because they had it, or because they did. It have it

and are we saved because we have it, or do not have It?

salvation and works are byproducts, not interdependant on each other, they are interependent on faith,
 

Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
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I'm not saying this, Scripture points the way. If you are a Jew enduring through the tribulation, James becomes a vital book to study and live by.
Whaaaaat?!?
James 2:14-24 takes us back to the OT times where a man lived by his own individual faith. The faith of Jesus Christ was not available to him yet.
Not true. James was written somewhere between late first century & early second century.

So, noooo, it wasn't written to Jews under the Law. That would have have been sin, for Jesus had already died & ushered in the New Covenant.
 

Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
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So why all the talk about "claims to have faith but has no works; faith without works is dead; justified by works?" Are you saying this only implies to the Jews in the OT? :confused:
Because faith without works is dead, & faith without works is only a claim.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,925
141
63
my faith has substance, it also has evidence, however in things i can not see,

the substance is christ, the evidence is the cross, the scripure which proclaims the cross and the tessurection, and the people who were witnesses to it, things i can not see,

Faith also involves hope, as paul said, the hope of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time begsn, there is the full substance of my faith. All given bu God.
You're describing the faith of Jesus Christ not your own individual faith. Read Hebrews 11. It is full of examples of those OT saint's faith and the proof of their faith through works.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,925
141
63
Now, you said you depend wholly on the faith "of" Christ, so why does it matter one whit whether your own faith "in" Him is accompanied by obedience or not? If it matters at all, you're depending on something other than Him, ain'tcha? Something not unseen, isn't it?
Kind of hard to understand what you're saying, but...that's why it must be the faith of Christ. It's all about Christ.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,925
141
63
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

*To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.
Amen, Amen, and Amen! It's about believing. Faith, however, requires obedience. The believer is justified by the faith of Christ.