Again we are not disagreeing we should keep the commandments But We all willingly sin knowing the truth that its wrong, when you lie you know its wrong, when you are mean or rude you know its wrong when you break any of the commandments you know its wrong but the blood of the lamb makes it where we may ask for forgivness and try to do better. Now if we believe we are covered by grace and just do as we please and sin all we want believing we are covered we are very delusioned. But I have never met someone like that here in cc or in my life
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What is the difference between "willingly sinning and asking forgiveness and trying to do better" and "sinning all you want and believing you are covered by grace."
Is the "asking for forgiveness" the difference?
Both examples are purposefully doing evil and thinking you'll get away with it. Is the "delusion" just a matter of degree?
No the diference between those is the trying to do better part, Say we have two me both christians but different ideals about grace. One sins all he wants but say its okay i am covered by grace, another sins and says father it is by your grace i am forgivin i will try to do better. Don't you think god would favor the man who asks for forgivness and trys to better himself?
I don't see the Bible teaching either view.
Jesus taught this...
Mat 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Mat 21:30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Yet you state you WILLINGLY SIN and then either "ask for forgiveness" (1st post) or "claim forgiveness by grace" (2nd post).
A willful sin is a sin you CHOOSE knowingly to do and I don't find any scripture in the entire Bible where one can do such a thing and say sorry and "try" to do better. I do see in the Bible where one is to FORSAKE lying and other unrighteous conduct and I do see where Paul taught that "grace abounded" when "sin abounded."
Yet what I do not see is "forgiveness abounding" with an abundance of grace while you continue to willfully sin.
That sounds to me like someone teaching that grace is a license to sin with the subtext of "you shouldn't do it" but "you still can." Therefore the difference between your two examples must only be a matter of degree with a fuzzy line in between somewhere.
Jesus didn't say to the adulterous woman, "try and sin no more." Jesus said, "go and sin no more."
Jesus taught this...
Mat 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Mat 21:30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Mat 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Yet you state you WILLINGLY SIN and then either "ask for forgiveness" (1st post) or "claim forgiveness by grace" (2nd post).
A willful sin is a sin you CHOOSE knowingly to do and I don't find any scripture in the entire Bible where one can do such a thing and say sorry and "try" to do better. I do see in the Bible where one is to FORSAKE lying and other unrighteous conduct and I do see where Paul taught that "grace abounded" when "sin abounded."
Yet what I do not see is "forgiveness abounding" with an abundance of grace while you continue to willfully sin.
That sounds to me like someone teaching that grace is a license to sin with the subtext of "you shouldn't do it" but "you still can." Therefore the difference between your two examples must only be a matter of degree with a fuzzy line in between somewhere.
Jesus didn't say to the adulterous woman, "try and sin no more." Jesus said, "go and sin no more."
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Well skinsky whenever we sin we have a choice, do what we know is right or not thus almost everytime we sin it is willingly. God does not make us carry a heavy load his yoke is light. He knows we will mess up and forgives us when we repent now the right thing to do is to try even harder not to do it again. Also scripture isn't always needed to make a point, just because it has no scripture doesn't mean it isn't valid. I am not going to argue about this any further my point was made and i stand by it accept it or not I am moving on
A
Yet do we know the depth of God's Son who is the perfect trier and tester of the utter most parts of our soul, heart and spirit? I do not but i trust He does. In the testimony of King David who premeditated; lying, adultery and murder of his fellow warrior who continued in it until Nathan the prophet, what did God say to David a pre forgiveness before he confessed and asked forgiveness (repentance was not shown in deeds it was too late, but of the will yes) and what of today the new testament? If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and to cleanse us from all. I agree our hearts and minds have come to the place of transformation and enlightenment where my nature is bathed in Jesus' love desires to not sin but the process of walking with Jesus growing to receive His work of perfecting me must take the new covenant of forgiveness and cleansing to continue on the ones path of the conforming into His image. This walk provision is for the weak or the strong whether one is aware of the sins of our soul whether it is conscious or unconscious, I know of times the Lord revealed to me things i was doing that I was not fully conscious to me but to Him it was in open plain sight. I cannot perfect myself in my own conscious how much more sub or unconscious observations and thus am wretched blind naked and need a continuous perfect cleanser of my; spirit, soul, mind, conscious, unconscious along with my mortal body trusting in His omniscience with His perfect blood covering over and in me. Yes the Holy Spirit is over our conscious and helps us to grow in knowledge of right and wrongs that law plainly written in our hearts and we are accountable to Him to walk in the light of the truth accompanied with His Agape love or walk out of the Light of the Lord.
skinski....
all your ranting about "the church" and her "monstrous g-d"...everybody misunderstands God but YOU.
eh....you STILL trample the Grace and Mercy and Blood that kept your lungs drawing breath while you committed YOUR vile crimes (and continue to -thinking you have ANY MERIT AT ALL).
you don't know the God i know.
He is nothing like YOU (thankfully).
Hosea 14:4
I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
4. God's gracious reply to their self-condemning prayer.
backsliding-apostasy: not merely occasional backslidings.
freely-with a gratuitous, unmerited, and abundant love (Eze 16:60-63). So as to the spiritual Israel (Joh 15:16; Ro 3:24; 5:8; 1Jo 4:10).
all your ranting about "the church" and her "monstrous g-d"...everybody misunderstands God but YOU.
eh....you STILL trample the Grace and Mercy and Blood that kept your lungs drawing breath while you committed YOUR vile crimes (and continue to -thinking you have ANY MERIT AT ALL).
you don't know the God i know.
He is nothing like YOU (thankfully).
Hosea 14:4
I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
4. God's gracious reply to their self-condemning prayer.
backsliding-apostasy: not merely occasional backslidings.
freely-with a gratuitous, unmerited, and abundant love (Eze 16:60-63). So as to the spiritual Israel (Joh 15:16; Ro 3:24; 5:8; 1Jo 4:10).
T
Ok...I see we agree a little here. But lets keep in mind that the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (saturday) is included in the law (commandment).
Now any true Christian in their right mind...just like you kind of mention, wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.
Do you know what jesus said about this? People in his days had this exact same argument and asked him about it, this is what he said. Love you lord your god with all your heart your mind and your soul. If you do this commandment you are fulfilling all the other commandments naturally because when you love him with all your heart,mind and soul you naturally start obeying his commandments even if you don't realize it. It becomes an instinct
T
Actually Jesus was quoting Moses when he said that, which is true, but if it was to work the way you say, people would automatictly be keeping the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (saturaday) like Jesus the prophets and apostles!
Jesus said in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Are you really going to the love the lord with all or heart and soul? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told you plainly: in (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”.
but if it was to work the way you say, people would automatictly be keeping the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week( well i believe you know the reason it doesn't work the way I say it does, people don't truly love him with all our hearts,minds and souls- or at least most of us ,there are people who do this for God. Few of them but they do all this and more and I want to be one of them. You can go on about sin and keeping the sabath but you need to move on get your own self ready. There is a war coming Tan, one the likes of this earth has never seen. And if you keep going on about how others should act you Lose focus on how you should.I keep saying to let go of your teachings of sin and seek a closer relationship with god otherwise you will not be ready when the time comes
T
You are absoulty right about the war coming up, and the teaching that I do is a part of my relationship with God (Jesus). In the scriptures its written in Psalm 19: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
I would love to teach other lessons and sometime I do, but the foundation is so far off course beause of Sin, mainly the forth commanmdment, because thats the main commandment that tides people with Jesus. Satan knew exactly what he was doing when he had Roman Emperor Constantine in March of 321 A.D. come up with another day of worhship (Sunday).
Now, if the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday) is a sign between God and His people. Then the first day (Sunday) is a sign between somebody and his people. People can’t have it both ways they are either in or out. Paul said in (1Cor.10:20-22) (v.20) “and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils”. (v.21) Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. (v.22) Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he? Just about everybody in my family goes to church on Sunday. Even I used too, until I read the scriptures and researched the history of Sunday worship. Until I read the bible for myself I was in the dark to. The whole BIble from Genesis to Revelation is letting us know that God (Jesus) have a serious problem with people sinning! Sin brings forth death, thats why there is a war coming up!
Tan If I may ask what is faith to you? What is your relationship with god like and what do you seek more than anything in heaven or earth? For me It's all about the love god and i share for each other, what I seek more than even eternal life itself Is a loving relationship that runs so deep and cuts the souls of others from its love on a level that seems impossible for a human to have on this earth. I want to show others how wonderful the love of god is and I have tried to show you too, but I think a gift like this is rare for people and i don't know why.... but i have been looking for a heart like mine who has felt the deepest level of his love and seeks the treasures I seek. God is actively looking for a heart such as that and so am i. Tan that is why I asked you these questions in this post, I want to see if you know of this love
T
My faith is that I teach the uncut word of God according to the Prophets (Old Testament) and Apostles (New Testament). I observe the Lord's Sabbath Day, the Lord's Feast Days (as outlined in Leviticus 23rd chapter), and the Lord's Dietary Law (as outlined in Leviticus 11th chapter). I teach and observe the Royal Law, which is the Ten Commandments.
I also believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is the King of Israel who will rule over the House of Jacob forever. I believe that Jesus is the God of all people and that his house "shall be a house of prayer for all people."
(Isaiah 56:7)
True love towards God in its deepest form, is to be obedient to his word from Genesis to Revelation and keep his commandment (laws), which includes the sabbath day on the seventh day of week (saturday). Its written in 1John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Well I apluad how you seek to be loyal to him that is good, but teaching of sin and how people need to change is good to a point, but when you keep going on and on about not teaching about his love also thats all people will see as a christians life.no Sin, comeplete obedience or else you go to hell... that deosn't sound like the god i know. I believe he wants us to have a childlike faith with him, for we are his precious children and should act as such. sure keeping his commandments are good but not if you do it for the wrong reason. To do it because you are afraid of his wrath, or afraid of breaking them because you are scared he will condemn you just isn't how it works. yes he said if you love me you will keep my commandments, but the love you speak of is more like a fearful love put into action. Not actually doing these things for him BECAUSE of our love for him. there is much more to this than meets the eye, you and i see a different god than the other. You see one of law, and obedience and keeping jewish traditions such as dietary things. But I see one of gentlenes love, kindness and eye's that burn for our protection
T
I understand how you feel, but the BIble do not support your way of thinking at all. You say jewish tradition, lets not get that confuse with those who think they are jews and are not. Paul said in 1Corinthians 6: 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Paul is saying you do not belong to yourself, and when you start thinking you do, then you have made another choice...only two choices to choose from. James says 1: 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass.
T
People profess to love Jesus all the time but remember ones love is demonstrated by ones actions. You can only show the Lord you love Him by keeping His commandments. You have to pay heed to all of Gods commandments that includes His commandments concerning His Sabbaths and His Holy Days His dietary laws and His laws concerning moral conduct. It seems strange that with all written in the bible stipulating that an individual is to follow Gods commandments if you question someone on observing Gods 7th Day Sabbath or a Holy Day such as the Passover which can be found written in the bible they appear as if you brought up something alien or foreign. Yet they readily participate in holidays such as Christmas and Easter which are not supported by the scriptures and they supposedly do this in the name of Jesus and they justify these actions with statements such as it is the spirit of the holiday is supposed to represent and that is what counts. Well according to what the scriptures say it is not the spirit that counts what counts is one being obedient to Gods word.
Jesus lets you know that in the following verse. He lets us know that if what we are doing is not according to Gods word then it in vain.
Matthews (15:8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
(9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Jesus lets you know that in the following verse. He lets us know that if what we are doing is not according to Gods word then it in vain.
Matthews (15:8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
(9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.