Faith comes by "hearing", "hearing" by the word of God ? You decide .

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L

LPT

Guest
#121
#121
1ofthem said:
Mt. 3
The voice of one crying in the wilderness saying repent you for the kingdom of heaven is at hand....bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.

What is the fruits meet for repentance? Is it not your whole heart, mind, and soul? Believing in him and loving him and wanting him above all else!

Jesus said that he that comes to me must be willingly to put me above all else... mother, father, brother, sister, husband, wife, kids and even your own self. In other words give him your whole heart.

So yeah, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word...We are saved by grace through faith...Not of works... salvation is the gift of God...to all those who believe in him and repent and give him their whole heart.

So when he calls anyone and they repent and give him their whole heart then they are saved...Of course they will still have to grow in him through his grace and go through the sanctification process, but they are born again the minute that they repent and give him their whole heart.
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Hey I like the signature,

By Faith alone with sights unknown. :)
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#122
#122
1ofthem said:
Mt. 3
The voice of one crying in the wilderness saying repent you for the kingdom of heaven is at hand....bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.

What is the fruits meet for repentance? Is it not your whole heart, mind, and soul? Believing in him and loving him and wanting him above all else!

Jesus said that he that comes to me must be willingly to put me above all else... mother, father, brother, sister, husband, wife, kids and even your own self. In other words give him your whole heart.

So yeah, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word...We are saved by grace through faith...Not of works... salvation is the gift of God...to all those who believe in him and repent and give him their whole heart.

So when he calls anyone and they repent and give him their whole heart then they are saved...Of course they will still have to grow in him through his grace and go through the sanctification process, but they are born again the minute that they repent and give him their whole heart.
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Anyone who fulfills what you've presented would be claiming Christ , His word , and the promises in His word , at a point in the Salvation process where one does not have the Spirit of Christ yet . We can't claim or believe anything in God's Word while we are outside of Christ and haven't been given the Spirit of Christ by Faith and faithing , pistis and pisteuo . I'm attempting to make this point to show that " believing in God's Word " at that beginning stage of the Salvation journey , is not true NT saving Faith and faithing .

Only one thing moves us forward in the Salvation journey at that beginning state . That is " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " as the Vines defines it
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#123
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#123
Pisteuo said:
Bumped with a correction .
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You are not making yourself clear here...so get to the point.

No need in all this...just say it...then people can understand what you are trying to say and then you can have a real discussion about it.

Right now you are just stuck in the mud, spinning your wheels, and getting even more stuck...Doesn't look like anyone wants to play this game with you. If you are waiting for people to just agree with your vague statements without know where you are leading then you might as well hang it because you are just wasting your time and everyone else's. Just saying.....
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#124
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#124
Pisteuo said:
Anyone who fulfills what you've presented would be claiming Christ , His word , and the promises in His word , at a point in the Salvation process where one does not have the Spirit of Christ yet . We can't claim or believe anything in God's Word while we are outside of Christ and haven't been given the Spirit of Christ by Faith and faithing , pistis and pisteuo . I'm attempting to make this point to show that " believing in God's Word " at that beginning stage of the Salvation journey , is not true NT saving Faith and faithing .

Only one thing moves us forward in the Salvation journey at that beginning state . That is " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " as the Vines defines it
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I don't know who Vines is and am not worried about what he says....If you want to discuss it then bring me the word of God not Vines.

Anyhow, what do you think giving him your whole heart means if not surrendering to him? Seriously....
 
L

LPT

Guest
#125
#125
“Because the God who said, Out of darkness light shall shine, is the One who shined in our hearts to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us.”—

2 Corinthians 4:6-7

Did you catch that (And Not Out Of Us)
 
L

LPT

Guest
#126
#126
Paul said it quite well indeed.

I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me."

Galatians 2:20
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#127
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#127
Pisteuo said:
Only one thing moves us forward in the Salvation journey at that beginning state . That is " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " as the Vines defines it
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You cannot save yourself or clean yourself up that takes God and if you are saying that we have to do that before we get saved then no one would ever be able to get saved...just saying.

You can't do anything on your own to make yourself worthy of being saved that is of the Grace of God through faith....So really all you can do is believe, repent, and give him your whole heart when he draws you then you are born again and can begin to grow in Grace.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#128
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#128
Pisteuo said:
Don't want to untangle your entire response according to my understanding , but maybe we can start at the beginning where I've intended this discussion to launch from .

I'll give you solid teaching about how the Father calls . Not important for you to completely agree to proceed with a productive discussion .

The Greek is specific , God the Father calls out a small group , out from among a larger group that is not called . Years of exhaustive study at at Stanford University professor teaching level , with all the ancient texts available to Gleen from , all in one sentence .

With that said what is God calling us to . Well Christ obviously . Nobody comes to Christ less the Father draws or calls them . But , as The Father is calling some to Christ , He is also calling those to make a response . The first of which is repentance .

Repentance , is just a response to the call in which the called out one just makes a mental turning of the head so to speak , from his way to God's way . Not an act of Faith or faithing yet ( pistis or pisteuo ). That's all repentance is , are we in agreement so far ?
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This being a bible discussion forum, I think we should include scripture with our comments to reinforce our statements and also make it more of a discussion instead of just throwing out our beliefs without backup. I believe that the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot respond to spiritual things, such as God's calling.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#129
#129
1ofthem said:
I don't know who Vines is and am not worried about what he says....If you want to discuss it then bring me the word of God not Vines.

Anyhow, what do you think giving him your whole heart means if not surrendering to him? Seriously....
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It's trickery with words, deny having the spirit of Jesus and that's a point for the enemy side.

That's one of the soul reasons he try's to fool folks into believing that kind of garbage.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#130
#130
First step in salvation

But when it pleased God…to reveal His Son in me.”

Galatians 1:15-16
 
L

LPT

Guest
#131
#131
My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you.”—Galatians 4:19

Paul viewed the believers in Galatia as his spiritual children. He had labored to help them receive Christ at their salvation,
 
L

LPT

Guest
#132
#132
That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith.”—Ephesians 3:17

When we believed into Christ, He came to live in our spirit, the deepest part of our being.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#133
#133
Christ in you, the hope of glory.” - Colossians 1:27

This verse shows that Christ is in us in a particular way: as our hope of glory. When we believed in Him, Christ came to live in our spirit.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#134
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
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#134
LPT said:
It's trickery with words, deny having the spirit of Jesus and that's a point for the enemy side.

That's one of the soul reasons he try's to fool folks into believing that kind of garbage.
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Yeah, I just wished he'd get to his point. I hate trying to speculate where someone is trying to lead, but at this point to me it sounds like he's saying you have to clean yourself up and some how make yourself worthy before God will save you. And that can't even be done...that's totally putting the cart before the horse...in my opinion.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#136
#136
1ofthem said:
Yeah, I just wished he'd get to his point. I hate trying to speculate where someone is trying to lead, but at this point to me it sounds like he's saying you have to clean yourself up and some how make yourself worthy before God will save you. And that can't even be done...that's totally putting the cart before the horse...in my opinion.
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I don't think he will, the whole point I think he is trying to do is, when people ask for forgiveness and repent from their heart and ask Jesus for help that Jesus isn't going to come dwell with that person and help them. Sort of saying sorry but you got to prove yourself first is hog wash.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#137
#137
ForestGreenCook said:
This being a bible discussion forum, I think we should include scripture with our comments to reinforce our statements and also make it more of a discussion instead of just throwing out our beliefs without backup. I believe that the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot respond to spiritual things, such as God's calling.
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I did Rom. 8:9 .
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#138
#138
1ofthem said:
Yeah, I just wished he'd get to his point. I hate trying to speculate where someone is trying to lead, but at this point to me it sounds like he's saying you have to clean yourself up and some how make yourself worthy before God will save you. And that can't even be done...that's totally putting the cart before the horse...in my opinion.
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It's spelled out clearly in the OP it was bumped with a correction on post 43 .
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#139
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#139
God doesn't have to test anyone...If he calls you and you repent and believe in him with your whole heart...He knows whether you do or don't.

The parable of the sower is not a testing field...its just stating the facts...Those that fell on the good ground were the ones that were truly saved. The ones that fell on the bad ground were not truly saved. They did not understand, did not give their whole heart to him, tried to do it on their own and were not truly saved. God wasn't testing them that's just the facts.

BTW....There is no way that anyone could grow and not get choked out by the cares of this world or any of the other ways they failed, unless they had the Spirit of God within them and his grace. That's not something that you can just do on your own...It takes the Spirit....

So to say that people could pass some kind of test like that without the Spirit doesn't sound right to me at all....Just saying.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
#140
#140
1ofthem said:
God doesn't have to test anyone...If he calls you and you repent and believe in him with your whole heart...He knows whether you do or don't.

The parable of the sower is not a testing field...its just stating the facts...Those that fell on the good ground were the ones that were truly saved. The ones that fell on the bad ground were not truly saved. They did not understand, did not give their whole heart to him, tried to do it on their own and were not truly saved. God wasn't testing them that's just the facts.

BTW....There is no way that anyone could grow and not get choked out by the cares of this world or any of the other ways they failed, unless they had the Spirit of God within them and his grace. That's not something that you can just do on your own...It takes the Spirit....

So to say that people could pass some kind of test like that without the Spirit doesn't sound right to me at all....Just saying.
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So iyo , are those who were not saved in the parable of the sower , the three that failed , did they have the Spirit of Christ at the time ?
 
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