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gb9

Senior Member
#1
Jan 18, 2011
11,709
6,307
113
#1
every day, myself, others get attacked because we say that we rely on God's grace and faith in Jesus for salvation. we freely admit that we are not sinless and perfect. my goal everyday is to not sin, but there are days I fall short of that goal.

this is real.

then the fakers show up and lecture us on being wrong for telling the truth. think about this. no one is perfect and sinless, but some people will not say this. amazing. incredible. sad.

so, just wanted to put this out there. please consider what is better. truth, or fake people who reject truth.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#2
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#2
​That's because they don't want to admit that they are sinful, imperfect people also. The truth is ALWAYS better. People who reject truth are not our concern, God will deal with them. As for me, I freely admit that I'm a sinner, because I'm a truthful person.. lol :eek:
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#3
#3
Take heart brother...

"But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also." Galatians 4:29

"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5:12
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#4
#4
blue_ladybug said:
​That's because they don't want to admit that they are sinful, imperfect people also. The truth is ALWAYS better. People who reject truth are not our concern, God will deal with them. As for me, I freely admit that I'm a sinner, because I'm a truthful person.. lol :eek:
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That is the cruxt of legalism, If I admit I am just as sinful and imperfect as my neighbor or anyone else. I must admit I still need saved like everyone else. and my legalism is destroyed.

so I must

1. Claim I am sinless
2. Claim I sin, but it is just a mistake I made, I do not sin like you do or go around teaching we can sin and be saved
3. Talk all God like, using KJV language or something like it to make it appear I am holy and walking like a child of God should act (ie modern day phariseeism)
 
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Depleted

Guest
#5
#5
gb9 said:
every day, myself, others get attacked because we say that we rely on God's grace and faith in Jesus for salvation. we freely admit that we are not sinless and perfect. my goal everyday is to not sin, but there are days I fall short of that goal.

this is real.

then the fakers show up and lecture us on being wrong for telling the truth. think about this. no one is perfect and sinless, but some people will not say this. amazing. incredible. sad.

so, just wanted to put this out there. please consider what is better. truth, or fake people who reject truth.
Click to expand...
What is the purpose of this post really? I've been seeing a lot of these us against them post on this forum. (I've added my own, so I am not guiltless. lol)

And it tends to come out to the same thing "Them" is doing. "Not treating 'Them' right."

So... other than gossiping about Them, making yourself feel/look better, or... IDK what, what is the purpose of this post?
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

Senior Member
#6
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#6
gb9 said:
every day, myself, others get attacked because we say that we rely on God's grace and faith in Jesus for salvation. we freely admit that we are not sinless and perfect. my goal everyday is to not sin, but there are days I fall short of that goal.

this is real.

then the fakers show up and lecture us on being wrong for telling the truth. think about this. no one is perfect and sinless, but some people will not say this. amazing. incredible. sad.

so, just wanted to put this out there. please consider what is better. truth, or fake people who reject truth.
Click to expand...

This makes me think of Saul who was later called Paul- one who became a mighty vessel used by God. He was the Pharisee of Pharisees! But not impossible to reach! What a mighty man of God he became!

Hoping that this example gives hope to those who are troubled by those who say they are perfect and don't sin. Maybe some of them here will hear and see the truth!

I know it's frustrating to have a discussion with them - they need our prayers! They need the blinders removed. They need the love and forgiveness that only Jesus can bring too!

I feel your pain and I'm learning also. Here on CC you need tough skin. :).

There comes a time when you just have to avoid certain posts or topics.

There are times when I just walk away from discussions and pray that truth will prevail in the hearts and minds of those who are truly His and on those who truly need a work of God cutting away the hard skinned hearts and do a mighty work deep within their souls.




 
Dan58

Dan58

Senior Member
#7
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
338
83
#7
gb9 said:
every day, myself, others get attacked because we say that we rely on God's grace and faith in Jesus for salvation. we freely admit that we are not sinless and perfect.
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I think sometimes its just a difference in opinion.. Some of the saved by faith people give the impression that sin is okay because they're saved by grace. Its not that others don't want to admit they are sinners, its the notion that sinning doesn't matter that ruffles their feathers. While this is true; "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8). This is also true; "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6; 1-2). So I think the objection to the "saved by grace" crowd, is that its often perceived as a subtle endorsement of OSAS, which green lights sin and insinuates that 'good works' don't matter. And that, in the opinion of many, is a dangerous and misleading ideology to espouse.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8
#8
Dan58 said:

I think sometimes its just a difference in opinion.. Some of the saved by faith people give the impression that sin is okay because they're saved by grace. Its not that others don't want to admit they are sinners, its the notion that sinning doesn't matter that ruffles their feathers. While this is true; "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8). This is also true; "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6; 1-2). So I think the objection to the "saved by grace" crowd, is that its often perceived as a subtle endorsement of OSAS, which green lights sin and insinuates that 'good works' don't matter. And that, in the opinion of many, is a dangerous and misleading ideology to espouse.
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this is the problem, and is a faulty interpretation of an ideology.

OSAS does not green light sin, Legalism does.

OSAS says all sin is sin, we do not say we make oopsies, or mistakes, We take our sin, and lay it at the cross of Christ, with no excuses, and no trying to blame others or denying it is sin, We Acknowledge, we all have sinned and fall short. We through the power of the gospel. learn to walk as new creatures, because we are no longer our old self and the power of sin has been destroyed. but will never claim we are sinless.

Legalism gives us the green light to sin, while hiding under the influence of religion. It waters down the law, and brings God down to our level. so we can see our sin is not all that bad, and I can excuse it (if I admit it is sin at all) I can blame shift. I can do anything but admit, this sin I comittend makes me just as guilty as every man woman and child who walks the earth. all the while continually judging and bashing other people who they see as sinners. all in an attempt to make them feel good about ourselves.. (we actually see groups of people all who have the same besetting sin issue walking together, and instead of admitting they have a problem, or trying to get help to overcome that sin, Judge people who do what they consider worse sins, al so they do not have to judge themselves)

ie. I can sin all I want, as long as I "repent", "confess", "Go to church" etc etc etc.. And I will not lose salvation (ANTI OSAS)
 
Desertsrose

Desertsrose

Senior Member
#9
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#9
Dan58 said:

I think sometimes its just a difference in opinion.. Some of the saved by faith people give the impression that sin is okay because they're saved by grace. Its not that others don't want to admit they are sinners, its the notion that sinning doesn't matter that ruffles their feathers. While this is true; "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8). This is also true; "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid" (Romans 6; 1-2). So I think the objection to the "saved by grace" crowd, is that its often perceived as a subtle endorsement of OSAS, which green lights sin and insinuates that 'good works' don't matter. And that, in the opinion of many, is a dangerous and misleading ideology to espouse.
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Yes, Dan, I see understand that as well.

Sometimes it's miscommunication between the two different views. Sometimes when reading the posts, I see that they're both saying the same thing only in a different way. Other times it's definitely totally opposing views.

But, yes, there are those who are super-sized gracers and they think they can sin all they want. And I didn't realize there are many who adhere to that false doctrine. I only read a couple of the posts and decided not to jump in. :)

I'm thinking here right now, how many pages of scripture I'll need to rip out of my bible if I believed that way. I'm thinking there wouldn't be much of the scriptures left. Jesus said if you love me, you'll keep my commandments. It can't get much plainer than that.

But God, in His lovingkindness gave forgiveness to us when we do sin. If we confess and repent, He promises to forgive and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God is so merciful, full of grace and lovingkindness, and yet He's just, Holy and Righteous as well. Some only focus on the mercy love and grace of God while ignoring that we must live in holiness, righteousness and obedience.

But then, I don't want to begin another thread on all that, so I'll stop there. :)
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#10
Jul 3, 2015
55,819
25,996
113
#10
Desertsrose said:
This makes me think of Saul who was later called Paul- one who became a mighty vessel used by God. He was the Pharisee of Pharisees! But not impossible to reach! What a mighty man of God he became!

Hoping that this example gives hope to those who are troubled by those who say they are perfect and don't sin. Maybe some of them here will hear and see the truth!

I know it's frustrating to have a discussion with them - they need our prayers! They need the blinders removed. They need the love and forgiveness that only Jesus can bring too!

I feel your pain and I'm learning also. Here on CC you need tough skin. :).

There comes a time when you just have to avoid certain posts or topics.

There are times when I just walk away from discussions and pray that truth will prevail in the hearts and minds of those who are truly His and on those who truly need a work of God cutting away the hard skinned hearts and do a mighty work deep within their souls.
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So very true! Your words of wisdom are an inspiration to all of us who struggle from time to time against those who set themselves up to be our enemies. I do know I can be sassy sometimes, and I know my straightforwardness is sometime misunderstood, sometimes seemingly deliberately, but I hope to be gracious to my brothers and sisters in Christ and show the heart of love that Jesus desires for us to have for one another. I am painstakingly aware of how far I fall and fail. I am passionate about God, His love for us, and His plan for us as revealed in Scriptures through the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ that shows His great love for us, and understand that others are also. God put a call on my life and has delivered me of of many things. It is that freedom and love I really want to share. (Somebody may recognize some of those words from a PM where I was writing of these very things with them yesterday :D) A hearty amen to all you have said here :)
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#11
Jan 18, 2011
11,709
6,307
113
#11
Depleted said:
What is the purpose of this post really? I've been seeing a lot of these us against them post on this forum. (I've added my own, so I am not guiltless. lol)

And it tends to come out to the same thing "Them" is doing. "Not treating 'Them' right."

So... other than gossiping about Them, making yourself feel/look better, or... IDK what, what is the purpose of this post?
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the purpose was this- to point out the difference between truth ( no one is perfect and sinless, and being willing to say it) and fake stuff like saying or implying that ones does not sin. one is truth, the other is a lie. we Christians should always stand on the side of truth. hope that helped.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#12
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#12
The phrase "I'm a sinner saved by grace" sickens me, it really disgusts me. Why? Because Jesus suffered & died for us to become the Sons of God, & instead of agreeing with God, they claim sinnership instead of Citizenship.

Paul said "by the grace of God I am what I am". He also said he was "made an apostle by the Lord Jesus Christ".

He DID claim he fell into sin, like we all do..... but we're not "practicing sinners" anymore. It's not our lifestyle any longer.

Now we "press toward the mark", waiting for the calling-up & hauling-up of Jesus, for He alone is able to take us to where He is.

I love & appreciate the Lord..... & to call myself the thing I once was when He came & saved me is like slapping Him in the face when I ought to be on my knees kissing His feet, thanking Him for everything He has done for me.:)
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#13
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#13
gb9 said:
every day, myself, others get attacked because we say that we rely on God's grace and faith in Jesus for salvation. we freely admit that we are not sinless and perfect. my goal everyday is to not sin, but there are days I fall short of that goal.

this is real.

then the fakers show up and lecture us on being wrong for telling the truth. think about this. no one is perfect and sinless, but some people will not say this. amazing. incredible. sad.

so, just wanted to put this out there. please consider what is better. truth, or fake people who reject truth.
Click to expand...
One day you will achieve your goal of perfection.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#14
Jan 18, 2011
11,709
6,307
113
#14
Stephen63 said:
The phrase "I'm a sinner saved by grace" sickens me, it really disgusts me. Why? Because Jesus suffered & died for us to become the Sons of God, & instead of agreeing with God, they claim sinnership instead of Citizenship.

Paul said "by the grace of God I am what I am". He also said he was "made an apostle by the Lord Jesus Christ".

He DID claim he fell into sin, like we all do..... but we're not "practicing sinners" anymore. It's not our lifestyle any longer.

Now we "press toward the mark", waiting for the calling-up & hauling-up of Jesus, for He alone is able to take us to where He is.

I love & appreciate the Lord..... & to call myself the thing I once was when He came & saved me is like slapping Him in the face when I ought to be on my knees kissing His feet, thanking Him for everything He has done for me.:)
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see, here we go. who said anything about being a " practicing sinner " . before I came to Christ, I got drunk, took God's name in vain, told lies without caring. I no longer do these things.

but that does NOT mean I am sinless. I use the Biblical definition of sins, which is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so. by this standard, no one is sinless.

there is no big sin, little sin. that is man made false teaching.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#15
#15
Stephen63 said:
The phrase "I'm a sinner saved by grace" sickens me, it really disgusts me. Why? Because Jesus suffered & died for us to become the Sons of God, & instead of agreeing with God, they claim sinnership instead of Citizenship.

Paul said "by the grace of God I am what I am". He also said he was "made an apostle by the Lord Jesus Christ".

He DID claim he fell into sin, like we all do..... but we're not "practicing sinners" anymore. It's not our lifestyle any longer.

Now we "press toward the mark", waiting for the calling-up & hauling-up of Jesus, for He alone is able to take us to where He is.

I love & appreciate the Lord..... & to call myself the thing I once was when He came & saved me is like slapping Him in the face when I ought to be on my knees kissing His feet, thanking Him for everything He has done for me.:)
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The term you can lose you salvation sickens me, just sickens me,

it takes the work of God and makes a mockery of it, It says God, Who said he will perfect a person until the day of Christ, and makes him powerless.

Paul said he was a sinner saved by grace in Romans 7, he did dnot have to say the words. yet he said it.. "oh what a wretched man I AM, (sinner), who will free me from this body of sin Then he thanked God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! (saved by grace)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
#16
gb9 said:
see, here we go. who said anything about being a " practicing sinner " . before I came to Christ, I got drunk, took God's name in vain, told lies without caring. I no longer do these things.

but that does NOT mean I am sinless. I use the Biblical definition of sins, which is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so. by this standard, no one is sinless.

there is no big sin, little sin. that is man made false teaching.
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its there go to argument,

You must love you r sin, or you would agree with them, they have no other way to explain it, because they do not understand it (grace).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
#17
Desertsrose said:


But, yes, there are those who are super-sized gracers and they think they can sin all they want. And I didn't realize there are many who adhere to that false doctrine. I only read a couple of the posts and decided not to jump in. :)
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Ah, Can you name some of these so called people who visit CC??

then can you prove they love their sin as you just accused them of doing?
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#18
#18
3. Talk all God like, using KJV language or something like it to make it appear I am holy and walking like a child of God should act (ie modern day phariseeism)
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LOL!

talk all God like
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#20
#20
But, yes, there are those who are super-sized gracers and they think they can sin all they want. And I didn't realize there are many who adhere to that false doctrine. I only read a couple of the posts and decided not to jump in. :)
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I have been here over 2 years (this is my 2nd id here)

and I have never seen anyone...ANYONE...say or even HINT at what you state in this forum

care to clairify?
 
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