FALLING FROM GRACE; WHAT IT MEANS AND HOW YOU FALL

[UnderGrace]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. You make a sweeping statement and have not proven it with verifiable facts Why dont you do that before asserting your puffed up disposition

Well not puffed up, you are just on the defensive and you are feeling attacked, I personally have many problems with JP's teachings, even though on occasion I have learned from him, I just think using MacArthur is not going defeat any of Prince's teaching only scripture will do that. Proceed as you like.

 

[Ariel82]

Sorry you misunderstand, I believe in One Holy spirit....not many spirits given by God

Here you can re-read the words that have me puzzled, I will bold the troubling parts....

Quoted know1

Without the Spirit of grace, we would not have God's grace.
Without the Spirit of truth, we would not be able to receive the truth of God's word. Therefore we would not have truth.
Without the spirit of faith, we would not be able to have faith for salvation.
These Spirits proceed from God and enter our hearts, and from there they produce fruit in us.
Each spirit is what their name states. Even as a spirit of fear produces fear in a person.
Or as the spirit of a prophet give the prophet the ability to prophesy.
In the same sense that the ladies who had a spirit of divination or familiar spirit gave them the ability to divine, as the bible puts it.

You see I get the impression that know1 believes God gives people many "spirits" not just One Holy spirit and the name of one of theses spirits is grace....that's how she thinks you can lose grace?

Not sure, find the idea very puzzling.

 

[PollyAnna]

Being saved by grace through Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection is my first clue as it is the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

I take it you never listened to the teaching in order to even test it. Most self-proclaimed heretic hunters don't actually either....but the reality is - that is to be expected in these cases. Carry on....

I take it you never listened to the teaching in order to even test it. Most self-proclaimed heretic hunters don't actually either....but the reality is - that is to be expected in these cases. Carry on....

What I have come to expect in my very short time here especially on this thread;if one disagrees and brings EVIDENCE,somehow we havent searched out the truth quite enough to satisfy those whom are blind.

I find it rather sad that heretic followers cant respond to the point I made (bait and switch) but you further the INSANITY by stating that I must not have listened enough to his error and that must be why we disagree. You are entertaining in the very least! Thank you!

 

[ladylynn]

There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.

There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham. Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin..etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies"

There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.

Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics". "If people don't believe the way that they do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.."

It's the nature of the beast.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

This so-called heretic is for repentance and leading a holy lifestyle so slander is being done towards this brother in the body of Christ and lot's of malice too. Both of which are works of the flesh.


Let's hear what he actually has to say about repentance himself - not what some heretic hunter "says he says".

[video=youtube;TDgqUP2-FOw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDgqUP2-FOw[/video]

This is one of my favorite messages about grace leading to repentance. Thanks for posting this Grace777. PollyAnna., you owe it to yourself to hear from JP himself and what he actually says about repentance., not what someone else said he says.

I was taught in my church not to listen to certain preachers and teachers but to condemn them to anyone who listens to them based on what our pastor said. He meant well and wanted to protect us., but before we can have a real personal opinion about something OR someone that we go and talk to other people about, we need to base it on our own listening and not solely on someone else's.

For instance our church told us not listen to Christian radio and guys like Chuck Swindoll and Dr.David Jerimiah, Charles Stanley.,Bill Pierce., Dr. James Dobson. etc.. Needless to say we kept listening to Christian radio in our home and found our pastor to be wrong in that as well as some of his other teachings and or opinions and ideas. We had been listening for weeks before we even mentioned it to our Pastor so we had a chance to actually hear these preachers before our pastor scared us into not even considering listening to them. I'm so thankful we did.

 

[PollyAnna]

Sorry you misunderstand, I believe in One Holy spirit....not many spirits given by God

Here you can re-read the words that have me puzzled, I will bold the troubling parts....

Quoted know1



You see I get the impression that know1 believes God gives people many "spirits" not just One Holy spirit and the name of one of theses spirits is grace....that's how she thinks you can lose grace?

Not sure, find the idea very puzzling.

"noone" is saying that there is more than one spirit. At least I am not!! There is only one Holy Spirit! >>God the Father,God the Son,>> God the Holy Spirit.The trinity consists of one spirit of God. Just as Jesus is God and came to earth as the Godman.. God has many attributes to his character(I think that has already been said) and I posted the scriptures for your pleasure.Enjoy! Study

 

[PollyAnna]

This is one of my favorite messages about grace leading to repentance. Thanks for posting this Grace777. PollyAnna., you owe it to yourself to hear from JP himself and what he actually says about repentance., not what someone else said he says.

I was taught in my church not to listen to certain preachers and teachers but to condemn them to anyone who listens to them based on what our pastor said. He meant well and wanted to protect us., but before we can have a real personal opinion about something OR someone that we go and talk to other people about, we need to base it on our own listening and not solely on someone else's.

For instance our church told us not listen to Christian radio and guys like Chuck Swindoll and Dr.David Jerimiah, Charles Stanley.,Bill Pierce., Dr. James Dobson. etc.. Needless to say we kept listening to Christian radio in our home and found our pastor to be wrong in that as well as some of his other teachings and or opinions and ideas. We had been listening for weeks before we even mentioned it to our Pastor so we had a chance to actually hear these preachers before our pastor scared us into not even considering listening to them. I'm so thankful we did.

You assume I havent heard enough from the heretic? You assume wrong! Its so convenient to assert that those who disagree with the heretic advocates ,havent actually come to an educated opinion!! I shake the dust from my feet. This is INSANITY arguing with blind men......

 

[Grace777x70]

What I have come to expect in my very short time here especially on this thread;if one disagrees and brings EVIDENCE,somehow we havent searched out the truth quite enough to satisfy those whom are blind.

I find it rather sad that heretic followers cant respond to the point I made (bait and switch) but you further the INSANITY by stating that I must not have listened enough to his error and that must be why we disagree. You are entertaining in the very least! Thank you!

okie dokie........the problem is that you didn't actually bring any EVIDENCE....but people don't have to actually listen to what is really being said in order to label them as heretics. It's just the nature of that beast. Carry on...

 

[disciplemike]

sat under a pastor once, (whom I believe tried very hard to be a godly man), but if you didn't agree with him on any given topic, then it must be because you don't have the Holy Spirit, (he would say).

not my intentions to slander him, but he was just wrong about some things, and his pride allowed him to think he was right on everything.
for what it's worth.

 

[PollyAnna]

okie dokie........the problem is that you didn't actually bring any EVIDENCE....but people don't have to actually listen to what is really being said in order to label them as heretics. It's just the nature of that beast. Carry on...

See #138. I did bring some evidence . Its not all that JP is in error about but it is the salvific statement which is HUGE.
You going to apologize to me now? Or should I just call you a liar?

 

[UnderGrace]

See #138. I did bring some evidence . Its not all that JP is in error about but it is the salvific statement which is HUGE.
You going to apologize to me now? Or should I just call you a liar?

The Bible tells us how to be saved and have eternal life: Believe in our hearts that Jesus died for our sins and was raised from the grave, and confess with our mouths that He is our Lord and Savior. . . . To be saved and to receive all that Jesus has done for you, you can make Him your Lord and Savior today by praying this prayer: “Lord Jesus, thank You for loving me and dying for me on the cross. Your precious blood washes me clean of every sin. You are my Lord and my Savior, now and forever. I believe that You rose from the dead and that You are alive today. Because of Your finished work, I am now a beloved child of God and heaven is my home. Thank You for giving me eternal life, and filling my heart with Your peace and joy. Amen” (emphasis added). [SUP][1][/SUP]

What exactly do you see wrong with this, it is what you are not stating to help clarify that is the problem for me anyway?

 

[Grace777x70]

See #138. I did bring some evidence . Its not all that JP is in error about but it is the salvific statement which is HUGE.
You going to apologize to me now? Or should I just call you a liar?

I went back and read that post #138 again and there is nothing there that makes Prince a heretic by any stretch of the imagination no matter how much someone "twists" words around.

I see the heretic hunter saying things about repentance which was not in the original quote and that was not true as I have shown in my post #145 .

Here is the link to help you..

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ce-what-means-how-you-fall-8.html#post2781861

 

[UnderGrace]

Okay PollyAnna,

I will tell what I think is wrong with this statement you found on JP website, rather that looking at MacArthur who teaches Lordship salvation or some variation thereof.

The problem with this is, we can only impart understanding and information to others around who Jesus is, the complete picture and what He did and how we are never going to meet His absolute standard of perfection and therefore His sacrifice provides the atonement for our sin.

We should not provide the words that the person is going to say, the words need to come from the persons heart and be real and acceptable to God. We tell people what to do with the information we gave them and then they need to take it and make it their own.

"Seeker-sensitive pastors routinely provide a path of least biblical resistance for the unbeliever to gain entry into God’s kingdom. And for many, Romans 10:9 is the shortcut they’ve been looking for: “If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Paul could never have imagined his glorious, hope-filled promise would be exploited 2,000 years later as a two-step altar call formula—simply confess and believe. It has become a comfortable, spiritual Fast Pass for people who have no interest in submitting to the lordship of Christ.
Joseph Prince, a mega-church pastor, best-selling author, and TBN regular, offers this cheap invitation to those who visit his website:

The Bible tells us how to be saved and have eternal life: Believe in our hearts that Jesus died for our sins and was raised from the grave, and confess with our mouths that He is our Lord and Savior. . . . To be saved and to receive all that Jesus has done for you, you can make Him your Lord and Savior today by praying this prayer: “Lord Jesus, thank You for loving me and dying for me on the cross. Your precious blood washes me clean of every sin. You are my Lord and my Savior, now and forever. I believe that You rose from the dead and that You are alive today. Because of Your finished work, I am now a beloved child of God and heaven is my home. Thank You for giving me eternal life, and filling my heart with Your peace and joy. Amen” (emphasis added). [SUP][1][/SUP]
​

Unfortunately, Joseph Prince’s textploitation is nothing unusual in the current evangelical climate. Regardless, reading the rest of Romans would be far more beneficial than tuning into Prince’s next broadcast. Paul made it clear elsewhere that our confession and faith are proven false if there is no fruit of repentance in our lives (Romans 6:1–18)."....Gty.com



It isnt slander if it is true. Who has eyes to see and ears to hear? Will you bother to read this or will you jump in to respond out of sheer stubborn ignorance?

 

[Grace777x70]

Okay PollyAnna,

I will tell what I think is wrong with this statement you found on JP website, rather that looking at MacArthur who teaches Lordship salvation or some variation thereof.

The problem with this is, we can only impart understanding and information to others around who Jesus is, the complete picture and what He did and how we are never going to meet His absolute standard of perfection and therefore His sacrifice provides the atonement for our sin.

We should not provide the words that the person is going to say, the words need to come from the persons heart and be real and acceptable to God. We tell people what to do with the information we gave them and then they need to take it and make it their own.

This prayer below is exactly how I came to the Lord years ago and I was born-again ( only I knew nothing about the finished work of Christ that is on the prayer on the website - I wish I did though back then...).

I got the prayer very similar to the one quoted from the back of a Hal Lindsay book called "The Late Great Planet Earth".

I understand what you are saying though,...some people can just mouth things and not really believe in their heart. - but I think that is the Lord's job to decide who is believing from the heart or not.

To be saved and to receive all that Jesus has done for you, you can make Him your Lord and Savior today by praying this prayer: “Lord Jesus, thank You for loving me and dying for me on the cross. Your precious blood washes me clean of every sin. You are my Lord and my Savior, now and forever. I believe that You rose from the dead and that You are alive today. Because of Your finished work, I am now a beloved child of God and heaven is my home. Thank You for giving me eternal life, and filling my heart with Your peace and joy. Amen”

 

[UnderGrace]

This prayer below is exactly how I came to the Lord years ago and I was born-again ( only I knew nothing about the finished work of Christ that is on the prayer on the website - I wish I did though back then...).

I got the prayer very similar to the one quoted from the back of a Hal Lindsay book called "The Late Great Planet Earth".

I understand what you are saying though,...some people can just mouth things and not really believe in their heart. - but I think that is the Lord's job to decide who is believing from the heart or not.

To be saved and to receive all that Jesus has done for you, you can make Him your Lord and Savior today by praying this prayer: “Lord Jesus, thank You for loving me and dying for me on the cross. Your precious blood washes me clean of every sin. You are my Lord and my Savior, now and forever. I believe that You rose from the dead and that You are alive today. Because of Your finished work, I am now a beloved child of God and heaven is my home. Thank You for giving me eternal life, and filling my heart with Your peace and joy. Amen”

Yes I understand, when you said the words your heart was also in the right place and you had an understanding of who Jesus was and you learned the rest later.

Seems to me the words above are better than others I have read...

 

[Grace777x70]

“Lord Jesus, thank You for loving me and dying for me on the cross. Your precious blood washes me clean of every sin. You are my Lord and my Savior, now and forever. I believe that You rose from the dead and that You are alive today. Because of Your finished work, I am now a beloved child of God and heaven is my home. Thank You for giving me eternal life, and filling my heart with Your peace and joy. Amen”

Yes I understand, when you said the words your heart was also in the right place and you had an understanding of who Jesus was and you learned the rest later.

Seems to me the words above are better than others I have read...

I agree...it is telling the people that you are deeply loved and accepted. That Jesus is Lord and Savior and that He died for us - and that we have eternal life in Him. Every sin is washed clean from us and our hearts have His peace and joy.

This sounds exactly like the gospel of the grace of Christ to me. For the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

 

[UnderGrace]

“Lord Jesus, thank You for loving me and dying for me on the cross. Your precious blood washes me clean of every sin. You are my Lord and my Savior, now and forever. I believe that You rose from the dead and that You are alive today. Because of Your finished work, I am now a beloved child of God and heaven is my home. Thank You for giving me eternal life, and filling my heart with Your peace and joy. Amen”




I agree...it is telling the people that you are deeply loved and accepted. That Jesus is Lord and Savior and that He died for us - and that we have eternal life in Him. Every sin is washed clean from us and our hearts have His peace and joy.

This sounds exactly like the gospel of the grace of Christ to me. For the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Well yes but what does it mean He died for us, I am wondering if this is the full gospel really? Why did He die and who is Jesus? I think all these things need to be explained

They were for me.

 

[ladylynn]

I don't have a problem with saying the prayer at all and the whole gist of the matter is to say the prayer if you mean it. Soooo, I don't get what the issue is. I've really become a very easy going person over the last few years on such matters.

And Polly., In light of what true heresy is... if this is all ya got on the man., well.... you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[UnderGrace]

I don't have a problem with saying the prayer at all and the whole gist of the matter is to say the prayer if you mean it. Soooo, I don't get what the issue is. I've really become a very easy going person over the last few years on such matters.

And Polly., In light of what true heresy is... if this is all ya got on the man., well.... you are entitled to your opinion.

I have read it several times and I think the prayer does lack information and understanding. It does not clearly state what Jesus accomplished, how can someone believe and accept if they do not understand the work and why it happened?

I find it interesting that the first words are thanking Jesus for what He accomplished, when the person has yet to even come to understand or really accept the gift of salvation.

 

[ladylynn]

sat under a pastor once, (whom I believe tried very hard to be a godly man), but if you didn't agree with him on any given topic, then it must be because you don't have the Holy Spirit, (he would say).

not my intentions to slander him, but he was just wrong about some things, and his pride allowed him to think he was right on everything.
for what it's worth.

Yup, people (even some Christians) believe they are 100% right about everything., and everyone else is 100% wrong. It was a happy day when I discovered no one person on planet earth is 100% right and that it was my responsibility to follow Christ as He is revealed by the Word of God and by His Holy Spirit. We can't do that for someone else and someone else can't do that for us. OH HAPPY DAY!! Without Jesus none of us can do anything.

 

[ladylynn]

I have read it several times and I think the prayer does lack information and understanding. It does not clearly state what Jesus accomplished, how can someone believe and accept if they do not understand the work and why it happened?

I find it interesting that the first words are thanking Jesus for what He accomplished, when the person has yet to even come to understand or really accept the gift of salvation.

Hi UnderGrace, I'm guessing it is assuming a person has listened to the message and is then making a profession. Like Billy Graham or any other preacher who has given the message of salvation to a lot of people. Again., I have no problem with it at all. And surly imo it doesn't make someone a heretic. But I can see by Polly's estimation it does put someone up there in the heretic circle so not sure what else to say.